Camber Bolts

[theexbrit]

I agree with Rocky2, if I'd have known this stuff I would have slotted the top hole of my struts as the camber bolts did diddly squat for my positive camber & I didn't like the idea of using them anyway. I'd also have put a strut extension on mine as my "topping out" is pretty much constant. I'll be taking my struts off again & making these additions or I may wait until I get a SFD & go the Ori Strut or Koni strut route.

[XPLORx4]

You do realize that getting longer struts will cause your CV joints to fail when the wheels are off the ground, right? There's a reason why the strut only extends so far.

 

A coil spring lift is the least expensive way to increase the ride height of the R50. Although one side-effect is "topping-out", the advantage is that you increase the ground clearance beneath the front suspension crossmember. A subframe drop alone won't do that.

[rocky2]

You do realize that getting longer struts will cause your CV joints to fail when the wheels are off the ground, right? There's a reason why the strut only extends so far.

 

A coil spring lift is the least expensive way to increase the ride height of the R50. Although one side-effect is "topping-out", the advantage is that you increase the ground clearance beneath the front suspension crossmember. A subframe drop alone won't do that.

 

I think something is missing in the conversation.

 

First of all the best way to lift a vehicle is with increased wheel diameter, ie. bigger wheels. Then you raise the body to prevent or mitigate wheel rub.

Springs should only be stiffened not longer.

 

The longer coil spring is making the strut top out and increasing the CV angles. Because the rod is extended to within 1 to 2" towards the top of its stroke with longer coils the wheel can only go downward so far before stroke is topped out. You can only depress the spring so far before the coils either touch each other or the tire rubs, meaning wheel upwards into the wheel well. Yes, a longer rod will make stroke longer and further wheel articulation and increase CV angles. That is why I matched my SFD to the AC coils. 2" SFD = 2" AC coil lift. My CV angles are almost perfectly straight with AC coils, extended strut mod and 2" SFD. SO I guess I can go up or down with wheel articulation and not exceed CV angles either way.

 

So please help me understand this.

 

Edited December 19, 2012 by rocky2

[rocky2]

Dear XPLORx4

 

I hope you are not suggesting that top out of the strut is a safe guard to CV failure during extreme articulation.

 

Once you put AC coils or any longer coils on the strut assembly, the strut assembly is longer, taller, bigger or whatever you want to call it. The ship has sailed, the train has left the station, the fish is on the hook. You have already lengthen the strut assembly.

I'm advocating lengthening the rod in the McPherson strut apparatus in order to center the rods piston in the available stroke.

 

Think about it for a minute. Let's say that you do a SFD, blocking the subframe and putting extensions on the top of the strut and using the stock springs, have you increased the CV angles? NO

Think about the rear of the vehicle for a minute.................

Put a block under the spring at the axle perch location use the stock spring and then lengthen the shock. All is good !

 

Now we have a different situation when using AC coils or any longer coil that needs to be remedied.

 

Why not just use the stock length rear shock which will top out during extreme articulation and you can prevent the spring from unloading and falling out of its perch. Not a good idea !

 

 

Therefore I most humbly retract my previous statement that "Make a longer strut". And submit:

 

Make a longer strut rod if using longer springs on a McPherson strut and do a SFD to correct CV angles

 

But then again maybe I'm wrong and should just go 4wheeling and stop commenting on this site.

Edited December 19, 2012 by rocky2

[XPLORx4]

Hi Rocky2,

 

Please note that I never mentioned combining longer struts with a subframe drop. I only commented that longer struts will allow the suspension to drop too far, thereby exceeding the operating range of the CV axles. This is still true even if no other changes are made to the suspension components.

 

In the summer of 2002, I visited Calmini Manufacturing (www.purenissan.com), a company that had enjoyed success building suspension lift kits for WD21's and was starting to get a lot of traction in the Xterra aftermarket. For the SEMA 2002 show, they built a custom one-off set of mods for the R50, including front and rear bumpers, and a lift using modified coilovers (either King or Fox Racing, I don't recall). I spoke with them about the potential market for their products, but unfortunately they could not justify the expense of putting parts into production for the meager demand for R50 off-road parts. They were looking for volumes of approximately 10-15 lift kit sales per month, and at over $1000 (estimated), I knew there wasn't a market for it.

 

So, for the past 10 years, as the price of pre-owned R50's has become more affordable, more and more people are finding ways to mod them. Some stick with the AC 2" lift, some go for KRFabs' SFD, others (like you) build their own, and others go for the full monty and swap out the front axle.

 

For a 2" lift, the most affordable option for most backyard mechanics continues to be installing different coil springs, which as almost everyone who has chosen this option knows, has the much-discussed side effects of topping out and altering the alignment characteristics, notably camber and toe.

 

An alternative method for obtaining increased clearance between the ground and the pinch seam of the body is to use a subframe drop, paired with equivalent spacers that are installed between the body and the strut mount. This method has none of the side-effects of the coil spring lift, because no suspension geometry is changed. The primary disadvantage of this is that you get none of the performance/handling benefits of aftermarket springs. Add to that the extra complexity involved with installing the subframe drop, and the expense of the brackets and hardware, and it quickly becomes a less affordable option.

 

Some people achieve lift using strut spacers alone. However, this strategy allows the suspension to droop too low and exceed the safe operating angles of the CV joints. In fact, any suspension alteration that increases the angle of the lower A-arm while the vehicle's wheels are off the ground will cause this. This includes longer struts.

 

The approach that you have taken is a very creative solution to address the side-effects of the 2" coil spring lift, but I believe it is more complicated than it needs to be. A complete 2" subframe drop (with 2" strut spacers) achieves exactly the same thing with less effort. No need to buy different springs, nor disassemble the strut, no need to attach strut rod lengtheners. What is the advantage of advocating a solution to a problem that is solved more easily?

[rocky2]

Excellent,

I could not agree more. But dutifully must take issue with the statements, "this includes longer struts" and "but I believe it is more complicated than it needs to be" and most notably, "What is the advantage of advocating a solution to a problem that is solved more easily?"

 

"this includes longer struts"

your right AC coils should not be used, causes too many problems without SFD to match.

 

"but I believe it is more complicated than it needs to be"

The Koni insert mod or a strut extension can be done by a 10 year old.

 

"What is the advantage of advocating a solution to a problem that is solved more easily?"

It was a blast solving this issue, machining my parts and laying in the garage tearing my pathy apart.

 

Peace Brother

[XPLORx4]

Rocky2,Please don't mix opinion with fact. Your statement that the Koni insert mod can be done by a 10 year old is condescending, and your advocation of a solution that involves machining parts, while rewarding for you, is not something the average backyard mechanic can do.

 

I would probably guess that many, if not most, R50 owners on this forum have neither the means to machine their own parts, nor do they have the knowledge to do so.

 

Also, how did you tighten the bolts to the factory studs on your 2" SFD brackets? The angle of the pic you took makes it look really hard to get a socket or wrench in there.

 

By the way, here's the link to the photos of the Calmini coilover strut I mentioned earlier.

 

http://www.flickr.co...57629989182681/

 

It would cool to see someone develop a different strut top mount that allows for easier adjustment of caster and camber, sort of like this:

Edited December 19, 2012 by XPLORx4

[rocky2]

Ahh Good eye

 

It was like a Harry Houdini move to get my ratcheting boxed end wrench in there. 4"x2" boxed steel would have been alot easier to get a wrench in there and tighten.

 

I'm serious about the 10 year old statement!!

 

A) Take the strut out of the vehicle,

take the spring off,

C) drill a hole in the bottom,

D) cut the top off,

E) slide the guts out,

F) put a spacer in,

G) slide the insert in

H) tighten bolt.

 

Hopefully that was not too condescending!!

 

Come on!!

 

And that's what forums are all about, learning new moves, I know that I have.

 

 

Put your eyes on this

 

http://www.pirate4x4...pathfinder.html

 

So lets duel or rattle sabers!!

 

Oh and yes top side camber adjust is cool but as you say not cost effective.

 

So back to original post "CAMBER ADJUSTMENT"

 

Offset the top bolt hole!!

 

http://forums.vwvort...vice&p=78633901

 

Merry Christmas Brother

Rocky2

Edited December 20, 2012 by rocky2

[Iceman2989]

Can someone chime in with more information about "slotting the bolt hole" please? As opposed to using the camber bolts..

[theexbrit]

here's a link to one thread about these issues, rocky2 has done it, if you pm him he can help.

 

Basically you elongate the top hole at about a 25-30 degree angle that then allows you to move the top bolt inward & outward to adjust the camber. You want the wheels to look like this I I, not / \ (negative camber) or \ / (positive camber).