hillbillybob Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 I've been playing with my pathfinder flexing on loading docks and such (display picture) I know that I have LSD as per the orange sticker on the differential. As i moved up the wall farther the drivers tire started to come off the ground and was spinning freely. i did not feel or notice it engaging/trying to engage. i guess im a lil fuzzy on how they operate. mind you ive done a little bit of searching but didnt really find much that made sense. when the free wheeel started to spin i stopped as i was on pavement and didnt want to burn off what little bit of tread is left. did i need to keep letting it spin to get the LSD to drive the other tire? this was in 2 wd cause i had assumed the lsd was going to send power to the other tire and send me farther up the loading dock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heloflyboy Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Tap the brake and it should engage. The factory LSD is not that great. It will never work like a locker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hillbillybob Posted December 30, 2011 Author Share Posted December 30, 2011 I guess i should add to this, couple days ago i changed the fluid with the correct fluid (GL-5 if memory serves me right) and im kinda stressed out cause i did 2 and a half quarts of fluid and the rest was the lucas oil stabilizer as the pinion seal leaks a little bit. the bottle says on it ok for use with LSD but now im second guessing myself.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1994SEV6 Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 (edited) Tap the brake and it should engage. The factory LSD is not that great. It will never work like a locker. tapping the brakes to regain traction is an old trick, but it's kind of a ghetto way to do it. Tapping the brakes will apply on a lot of vehicles. LSD or not. Me replying to this isn't for Heloflyboy because I'm pretty sure he's a pro off-roader. There is a thread about LSDs. It's not a great thread, and it doesn't say much about them at all, but still take a look http://www.nissanpathfinders.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=18691 I guess i should add to this, couple days ago i changed the fluid with the correct fluid (GL-5 if memory serves me right) and im kinda stressed out cause i did 2 and a half quarts of fluid and the rest was the lucas oil stabilizer as the pinion seal leaks a little bit. the bottle says on it ok for use with LSD but now im second guessing myself.... pinion seals leaking? hmm. I generally know how differentials work, but I don't know about seals in them. Anyway, be careful with that Lucas stuff. I'm sure Towncivilian will come around and educate you soon enough. Yes, it is true that if you have an LSD you need an LSD additive. I don't know what brand of oil you used, but I would think that "ok for use with LSD" is different than LSD additive. If you have $20 to spare, refill your rear diff with Mobil 1 75w90. Oh yeah. I know someone is going to make a drug reference, so might as well be me. Not sure if your LSD is working? Is your reality always that warped? Edited December 30, 2011 by 1994SEV6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hillbillybob Posted December 30, 2011 Author Share Posted December 30, 2011 (edited) and this is where I'm going to get educated real quick, the guy at NAPA (Never Any Parts Available) said that it didnt require an additive.. i claified with him several times that i have lsd. cause i was quite confused? the pinion seal keeps the oil in the diff where yoke/u-joint/driveline go into the axle housing Edited December 30, 2011 by hillbillybob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1994SEV6 Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 and this is where I'm going to get educated real quick, the guy at NAPA (Never Any Parts Available) said that it didnt require an additive.. i claified with him several times that i has lsd. cause i was quite confused? the pinion seal keeps the oil in the diff where yoke/u-joint/driveline go into the axle housing NAPA falsely educated you? Weird. I've only had 5 or so experiences with NAPA, but they always seem to be the top notch guys. Advance Auto Parts is some teenagers who don't know the difference between motor oil and olive oil. All they sell is chrome BS. Autozone is...laughable. That's all I can say. To me, Napa has employees who actually know the basics of a car. They can tell you the components of front end suspension, they can explain to you the difference between 5w-30 and 10w-40 oil, and stuff like that. I don't want to rant about car parts retailers... Yes, you will get an education pretty fast around here. Towncivilian is your go-to-guy for chemical make-ups and things like that. You might want to check out Bobistheoilguy if you are into that kind of stuff. Some real scholars over there. You definitely need an additive. For any LSD as far as I'm concerned. These Pathfinders need them for sure. No two ways about it. I'm not sure what the additive does or prevents, or how it works or what it is composed of, but your differential will deteriorate eventually if you don't use it. The guy at NAPA might just not know that much about LSDs. Not a big deal. Everyone can try to tell you something that they are completely wrong/mistaken about. I know I'm guilty of it especially on this forum and people have set me straight. If you have questions, just come here and get straitened out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Towncivilian Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 (edited) Lucas Oil Stabilizer is 140wt gear oil without any additives. All it does is thicken up the fluid, dilute its additives, and cause cavitation. Read this article. This is a virgin oil analysis of Lucas Oil Stabilizer: As you can see, it contains no additives whatsoever. As said before, all it does is raise the viscosity of the oil in question and dilute its additive package. You should replace the seals instead of trying to use band-aid snake oil to slow the leak. If you want to use thicker gear oil in an attempt to slow the leak regardless, run 75W-140 at least. Many gear oils contain enough LSD additive for many differentials. If you hear chattering, you need to add some additive, otherwise it's not necessary. If there is Advance Auto Parts in your area, buy 3 quarts of Mobil 1 75W-90 gear oil online, use discount code VISA and pick-up in store to get the fluid for $22.97 plus tax. Our rear differential takes a little less than 3 quarts, so try to be careful during filling to avoid much spillage. It'd be okay to top up with whatever else you have laying around since most of the fluid will be the M1. Or you can buy an additional quart or use a fluid pump. I'm fairly sure that M1 contains LSD additive; as I said, if you hear chattering with the current fluid, add some LSD additive. Edited December 30, 2011 by Towncivilian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1994SEV6 Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 And there he is! Coming through like a champ. Anyway, I looked up that rear differential seal problem. I never heard of it since these diffs are rock solid, but there is a note of it in the FSM. Check out pages PD-14 and PD-15. It doesn't seem like it would take that long. The hardest thing might actually be locating a new seal. Go to the dealer for that. Don' even putz around with your parts stores. Here's the link to the FSM since I don't know how to insert pages. http://www.nicoclub.com/FSM/pathfinder/1994_Pathfinder/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hillbillybob Posted December 30, 2011 Author Share Posted December 30, 2011 lovely, I didnt not know that. Thank you so much. I shall be changing it again shortly then. the oil i used was napa brand correct weight (dont remember what it was and dont have a bottle handy) which is bottled by valvoline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Towncivilian Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Find the pinion seal on this exploded parts view to find the correct part number. I don't know what a pinion seal looks like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1994SEV6 Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 (edited) Find the pinion seal on this exploded parts view to find the correct part number. I don't know what a pinion seal looks like. Town, you made the exact same mistake I did. Apparently, "real axle" does NOT include differential. The real axle is pretty much about the brakes. It is technically called "rear final drive" even though the front differential has a "differential carrier". Confusing. Here's what you want. http://www.courtesyparts.com/pathfinder-parts-wd21-1987-1995/genuine-nissan-parts/power-train/380-rear-final-drive/-c-5572_5573_5640_5663.html You want to scroll down to the last exploded view. Make sure you are looking at the differential for the VG30E 4WD LSD model. It's called the H223B Edited December 30, 2011 by 1994SEV6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hillbillybob Posted December 30, 2011 Author Share Posted December 30, 2011 Perfect thank you. So for the limited slip actually engage and not just regain traction what do I need to do? Ive been thinking, this was after work with cold fluid, I'm assuming it would make a difference. In an instance where one rear tire was off the ground, to get it to attempt to lock do i need to let it free spin slow ( if it was moving forward like walking speed) mildly( too fast to see blocks of tread) or use a little bit of right pedal and I mean little cause I can just imagine what it would do with a lot and it tried to grab. Thanks for the input Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Magicians_Eye Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 LSD have clutches in them. They don't "lock" or "engage". Just like the clutch on a trans if you apply enough force it will slip. From what I have read I have to assume that the LSD in our trucks is pretty week and doesn't take much force to get the clutches to slip. I'm sure Nissan intentionally designed it this way for a better feel while on paved roads and less tire wear. I've read that you can tighten them up some how. I forget what they are doing to accomplish this but it will help it from slipping so easily. However there is a trade off. It will wear out your tires faster and you'll feel it every time you turn a corner on pavement. In low traction situations it will potentially cause the rear end to brake loose and slide out from under you while turning if you're on the gas. I use to have a real tight LSD in a Malibu that I had. When the roads where slick I had to be really careful not to apply to much power in a turn. The ass end would brake loose quick. Granted our trucks don't have nearly as much power as that car did lol. Honestly I have a LSD in my Pathy and I have plans to remove it and replace it with an air locker. When it comes time to wheel I don't want to always worry that I'm going to pickup a tire and come to a complete stop. That and I don't want the trade off of tightening up the LSD. Tires are expensive and will eventually cost more than an air locker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MY1PATH Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Tap the brake and it should engage. The factory LSD is not that great. It will never work like a locker. The Factory LSD is awesome. No its not a locker but it can be modified to be locked, near locked or simply just higher traction. I have done all 3. Compare the wd21 LSD to ANY other stock LSD and it will outperform almost all of them. I guess i should add to this, couple days ago i changed the fluid with the correct fluid (GL-5 if memory serves me right) and im kinda stressed out cause i did 2 and a half quarts of fluid and the rest was the lucas oil stabilizer as the pinion seal leaks a little bit. the bottle says on it ok for use with LSD but now im second guessing myself.... yes, lucas says safe for LSD. but that does not mean it will make it engage better. INFACT LSD additives REDUCE friction between the plates to increase plate life at the cost of added traction. After putting some 75w90 or 80w90 GL-5 oil in it take it for a spin and see if it improves (I like DELO these days) If the oil you use says LSD on the bottle DO NOT USE LSD ADDITIVE. ITs possible one of your LSD internals may have broken. One of the LSD's I took apart had a broken spring and after replacing it (and modifying it) it locked right up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverton Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 The factory LSD needs a lot of torque to engage. So just driving up a loading dock won't engage it and you will just end up spinning a tire. Next time pump the brakes a couple times and give it lots of throttle and I'm sure you'll walk right up it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hillbillybob Posted December 30, 2011 Author Share Posted December 30, 2011 So not knowing the mechanics of how the LSD works, the clutches grab after it starts to spin it will start to engage similar to a manual transmission clutch (comparing to something I know how it works because I'm a very visual person)? And the more torque applied causes it to grab even harder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sewebster Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 (edited) The clutches always grab. They slip when there is a certain difference in torque between the two wheels (the amount is in the FSM, 200 ft-lbs or so I think). The idea here is that if one wheel loses traction, with the clutches starting to slip, then you know that you have at least that amount of torque being applied to the wheel that still has traction. I find the name "limited slip" to be a bit misleading. It can actually slip an "unlimited" amount. It's just that the friction between the clutches will keep some amount of torque applied to the wheel with traction no matter what (unless the diff is broken inside or whatever). Edited December 30, 2011 by sewebster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nismothunder Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 (edited) Does the rear chatter? If so then you need a LSD aditive. Also, when you replace the fluid its a good idea too work the new fluid into the clutch plates by doing tight figure 8's while listioning for chatter. If it chatters, then the LSD is being raped. But from what you said, yeah your fine. Pump the brakes then the other side should lock in. And a pinion seal is the seal for the pinion, remove the drive shaft,P-nut,flange and then the deflector, then walla the seal. Edited December 30, 2011 by nismothunder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hillbillybob Posted December 30, 2011 Author Share Posted December 30, 2011 so thats where tapping the brakes comes in. it stops the tire from spinning and in theory the lsd has a chance to grip again. so I'll be changing the fluid again tonight and hopefully get it to work properly. thanks for the help guys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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