350 Or Rebuild Vg33E?

[Kingman]

I don't think an SBC would fit well in an R50 by the time you had everything packaged.

 

That said, simplicity is not an issue. A small block needs nothing other than 12 volts, two coolant hoses, a single fuel line, a transmission, exhaust, and motor mounts to be runnable.

 

I think if I was going to do an engine swap in an R50, it would either be a VQ v6, or a Ford 302. The 302 is a lot smaller and lighter than an SBC.

 

A Chevy 350 is almost the same size as a VG30/33. A little longer is all.

[pathyboy12]

Here are some dimensions for Chevy engines including the SBC. http://www.tbucketeers.com/page/index.html/_/articles/engines/sbc-dimensions-r23

 

For inexpensive go fast parts/huge after market, on-line available tuning knowledge, and many different configurations such as oil pans, and parts interchangability it is hard to beat a SBC for a custom project.

 

The O/A dimensions are essentially the same from the first 265 through to the LT1 and from the smallest 262 to the biggest 400.

 

To save front to rear room look to get an earlier design water pump (I think '68 and older). Also consider putting an eletric fan in front of the rad. The late 60s 2wd GM 4 speed manual gear boxes are quite small, not sure about the 4x4/tcase versions though - possibly an S series tcase would work. I recommend an Edlebrock carb as I think they have a off-road model with the vent tubes connected, look for a drop base air cleaner to maximize hood clearance if needed. Or make a custom cowl hood. Shorty headers may offer some space savings, not sure.

 

The old ford 260s were very narrow if that is what is needed, they used those on the old Sunbeam Tigers - not many NA V8s fit old British cars.

dang BowTied, thats exactly what i needed.... thanks.

yeah me and my friend were looking at it and we were gona make a coustome hood. and we didint know if we should go custome on the manifolds or no?

and we figured the fact that it doesnt have all that fuel injected stuff in her, that that'd save some space as well

[BowTied]

No problem, happy to help. I know a little more about chevy engines than I do Nissan so the opportunity to give back is great.

 

It totally depends on which engine you are referring to, but FI may have a lower profilethan a carb engine. Particularily some newer ones.

 

Since the new LS series small blocks are out they are the hot ticket for hot rodders and muscle car guys - they are awesome engines: and so I DO NOT recommend one. Why? They are sought after and so expensive. The LT1 engines from say the mid 90s are pretty available now and make a great donor drive train, sweet engines in power and efficiency, just not as good as the LS, and there is an after market support for them. The nice thing about FI is that you never need to worry about starving a carb due to an off-camber or steep hill situation when off-roading. Sure, carbs work, they just need a little more precaution that way.

 

An even cheaper FI option is to go earlier yet and get a TBI set-up from the late 80s. These should be cheaper than dirt now relatively speaking. They are about as simple as FI gets but they tend to have a lot of pollution control vacuum lines and such and are not very efficient - they do however typically only need one O2 sensor to work.

 

As to install angles - just going but eye to keep the engine level with a few degrees should be fine. Where you'd need to pay attention is the drive if the trans output is in a lot different spot. Follow the guidance in this area just like you would when lifting a rig should cover the bases.

[pathyboy12]

No problem, happy to help. I know a little more about chevy engines than I do Nissan so the opportunity to give back is great.

 

It totally depends on which engine you are referring to, but FI may have a lower profilethan a carb engine. Particularily some newer ones.

 

Since the new LS series small blocks are out they are the hot ticket for hot rodders and muscle car guys - they are awesome engines: and so I DO NOT recommend one. Why? They are sought after and so expensive. The LT1 engines from say the mid 90s are pretty available now and make a great donor drive train, sweet engines in power and efficiency, just not as good as the LS, and there is an after market support for them. The nice thing about FI is that you never need to worry about starving a carb due to an off-camber or steep hill situation when off-roading. Sure, carbs work, they just need a little more precaution that way.

 

An even cheaper FI option is to go earlier yet and get a TBI set-up from the late 80s. These should be cheaper than dirt now relatively speaking. They are about as simple as FI gets but they tend to have a lot of pollution control vacuum lines and such and are not very efficient - they do however typically only need one O2 sensor to work.

 

As to install angles - just going but eye to keep the engine level with a few degrees should be fine. Where you'd need to pay attention is the drive if the trans output is in a lot different spot. Follow the guidance in this area just like you would when lifting a rig should cover the bases.

so you think i should go FI instead of carburated? i thought carburated would be better? i know on romping around and on a steep hill it might starve it like you said but theres older trucks that people 4x4 in all the time, would it really cause that big of a problem? the guy thats helping me has an 81 ford step sid, holly 650 double pumper, and he goes nuts with that thing, no problem

[pathyboy12]

Here are some dimensions for Chevy engines including the SBC. http://www.tbucketeers.com/page/index.html/_/articles/engines/sbc-dimensions-r23

 

For inexpensive go fast parts/huge after market, on-line available tuning knowledge, and many different configurations such as oil pans, and parts interchangability it is hard to beat a SBC for a custom project.

 

The O/A dimensions are essentially the same from the first 265 through to the LT1 and from the smallest 262 to the biggest 400.

 

To save front to rear room look to get an earlier design water pump (I think '68 and older). Also consider putting an eletric fan in front of the rad. The late 60s 2wd GM 4 speed manual gear boxes are quite small, not sure about the 4x4/tcase versions though - possibly an S series tcase would work. I recommend an Edlebrock carb as I think they have a off-road model with the vent tubes connected, look for a drop base air cleaner to maximize hood clearance if needed. Or make a custom cowl hood. Shorty headers may offer some space savings, not sure.

 

The old ford 260s were very narrow if that is what is needed, they used those on the old Sunbeam Tigers - not many NA V8s fit old British cars.

do you happen to know the measurements of the VG33E? cause we did a rough measurement and came up with 27ish for the lenght, and the 350 is 28. and thats minus the bell housing, fan and radiator

[BowTied]

Not saying you should go FI, just that if you did it has a couple of advantages: efficiency and potentially a lower install hieght). Carbs are just fine, they have been working well for a century now.

 

I don't know anything about VG engines, sorry.

 

A standard clutch is 10.5", HD 11" nominally, so the bell would be slightly bigger than that. Not sure how that compares to a nissan bell. Or are you going auto?

 

A common way to save/gain space when putting a SBC into something that didn't come with one is put an electric fan between the rad and the grille so the fan, fan clutch and shroud can be deleted - that can save several inches. You might find some extra info that you need by checking into a S-series forum for S10s, Blazers, etc. They often do swaps from 2.8s and 4.3s to 350s.

 

As to which SBC to go with: if you can get a 350 it will likely be best bang for the buck. It can be built mild with a torquey cam and still make decent power with lower compression so you can run on the cheaper pump gas. I suggest a 9:1 comp ratio would be good maybe as high as 9.5:1, much more than that and you are looking at higher octanes possibly. Keep in mind it is the same amount of work regardless if you get a smogger 267 or a 350. The 400s are likely to be expensive, if you came across one it might be better to get and trade down and put the difference into the install. If you are worried about the fuel consumption, I guess a 305 would work, but avoid late 70s/early 80s 305s as some had bad metalurgy in the camshafts. If you were going to replace the cam anyway then it wouldn't matter I guess.

Edited January 30, 2011 by BowTied

[WOT]

I figured there would be more involved in the actual placement, alignment and angle of the engine to the rear end and suspension and stuff.

 

Our steering rack and steering arm is quite out of the way, so you could probly keep that oem. Power steering could probly be adapted using the SBC power steering pump and running new lines... hmmm what else. May or may not need a bigger fuel pump, assuming you could use the factory fuel tank atleast, but they make not make a bigger pump for our car.

 

Setting up the rear end is what I really dont get

[BowTied]

Is this what you need?

 

 

 

[WOT]

Well yeah that helps , but I mean what about where to place it in the bay itself, left/right and front/back...

 

Obviously you have your 305 or 350 or whatever, bolted up to a trans, say a T400R or something, would our rear end be capable of holding it or would the entire rear end need to be replaced and reworked aswell

 

Just trying to get the wheels spinnin on ideas, Im sure someones gonna do it....

 

 

[180sx]

Our rear end is mighty beefy. If people ca shove these and use D44 rear ends no problem, then we should be able to also.

[87pathy]

200K, There is nothing wrong with it.

 

IF you put in a 350, DON'T PUT A CARBED ENGINE IN IT!!!

 

that is so, 80 yo technology.

[87pathy]

Our rear end is mighty beefy. If people ca shove these and use D44 rear ends no problem, then we should be able to also.

 

changing a Nissan H233 for a Dana 44 is going backwards.

[Precise1]

yeah, im leanin twords the 350.... i have a garage full of tools and such. and a guy who has rebuilt a couple of chevys. i do plan on keepin the pathy for as long as i can, not gona sell it, run it till i dont have any money to fix her. i know itll be coastly and take a while but then ill have one unique pathy with some power....

Ok, if you beef up the power by a significant factor, be prepared to run a SAS or change front end components constantly if you use 4WD. The strut front end wasn't exactly designed for 300hp and 33" tires...

 

You are far better off pulling it (or buying another VG33), doing a little port/polish, cylinder hone, rings, cams, valve lap, intake and exhaust. That should put you a bit over 200hp easy and still be 100% reliable with no slash-and-burn modification.

 

A Chevy 350 is almost the same size as a VG30/33. A little longer is all.

And seeing how much room there is between the block and the firewall, a little matters a lot.

 

B

[Precise1]

200K, There is nothing wrong with it.

I'd generally agree, but some people don't maintain their vehicles so they have short lives.

Talking about the POs of course...

 

B

[BowTied]

Well yeah that helps , but I mean what about where to place it in the bay itself, left/right and front/back...

 

Obviously you have your 305 or 350 or whatever, bolted up to a trans, say a T400R or something, would our rear end be capable of holding it or would the entire rear end need to be replaced and reworked aswell

 

 

 

I am not 100% sure i have you, but I will try. The output of the SBC engine and trans is in the dead centre of the longitudinal axis of the vehicle. If the stock engine mounts are equidistant from the centre of the vehicle, then it is just a matter of adapting mounts. If the pinion in the rear end is in the centre also, then that is fine. WHen it come to the tcase stuff and the front pinion alignment, I can't help, you will need to do some research. Position the engine as close to the firewall as you can that still permits the distributor to be serviced. In some application (dunno about this one) the firewall can be dimpled or cut and a dished piece welded in the aid clearance there. Did that help a little? Likely what you need to know most is how to connect the front axle/tcase.

 

I agree that the carb idea is antiquated. EFI is more efficient. If you go EFI you will need to research that the stock pathy fuel pump has suffcient capacity in pressure and volume. Some GM engines such as the vortec series in the blazers for example have pretty high pressure requirements. If you need a GM pump some of them are pricey and you may need to have the top of the fuel tank modified. Another option could be to get an aftermarket fuel pump like a holley or mallory. The Holley blue fuel pump is reasonably reliable but it is LOUD. You get what you pay for here. Regardless you'd likely? need a fuel regulator. Ensure any rubber lines are pressure rated, ideally this is the time to replace them. I would suspect you may need the SBC ECM. If so then you'd need the corresponding sensors like MAF, O2 etc. The carb is surely simpler, eh? Regardless of that,... if the chevy engine has any oil leaks deal with those before putting them. It will have a timing chain which is great, but the timing chain cover seal may in part sealing with the oil pan. Way easier to deal with that before install.

 

Certainly a 350 can be easily built to 300HP+ with little effort. I wouldn't worry about that a lot unless you lack self control. Chances are the issue will be low end torque vs the weaker links in the system like ujoints or CVs. I suspect a stock engine with 225HP would do you fine if you can find one in that range. The GM crate "Target Master" 350s are in expensive (relative to other crate engines) and not high on HP which might also be a good candidate. Unless you are a leadfoot, low end torque will be you saviour and possible your curse if you don't excercise some caution. If the diffs are strong as noted and you get upgrade ujoints and CVs, might have a helluva rig that way. The other option of rebuilding the VG is good one. Sure, you have to tear the engine at least part way down and rework it assuming you know how, but the fuel system, sensors, mounts etc. can be left stock.