Vsicks Pathy Posted December 22, 2007 Share Posted December 22, 2007 You know, if you were to do this in Oregon you'd get charged with murder. Gun/homeowner/shooting people for kicks laws are not the same in all US states. Bottom line, there is no reason someone should have the right to end your life over a handful of property. It doesn't pay for the property, it doesn't make anyone feel any better, it costs everyone $$ and time to investigate the shooting, etc...what a complete waste. Stop making sense 88. There is no place for it in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted December 22, 2007 Share Posted December 22, 2007 To all the flesh wound would have stopped them, or bird shot. Have you ever heard of retaliation? These guys obviously know where the guy lives, so what do you think would happen once they got out of jail/hospital a FEW days later for the crime? If you're lucky they would just try to sue you,,,fat chance tho. Yes, good point. I have spent too many years living 'cheaply' with little of my own of any worth while working security at clubs, etc. Meaning I wasn't worried about myself but had no one else and not much to worry about. This does make 'security' MUCH easier. Let me tell a brief story... 4 months ago I'm in the garage having a cigarette when the GF pulls in the driveway, QUICK. Jumps out of the car and damn near runs through the garage (door open) to the house door. I ask"wtf?". She says "He watched me in the store, followed me outside and then followed me here" and points to the blue pickup that is stopped across our driveway, preventing her car from exiting. @!*%! The truck windows are tinted so I can't see anything. I walk to the garage opening, arms up and gesticulating/vocalizing "WTF IS UP"!! The truck doesn't move. @!*%! Ok, thats all I can do and I don't dare get any closer as I don't know what the person is intending. A gun would be appropriate now but they are tucked away upstairs and unreachable for this. I ducked down the side of the driveway to try to get a license plate #, but they drive slowly to the cul-de-sac, turn around and drive off. I can't get a plate # due to the distance/movment/ lighting and trying to keep out of the way. My success=0 Ok, net result is no harm done, the truck was never seen again. That doesn't mean @!*%. The GF is scared @!*%less. I've advised her of many tactics, how to handle things, where to go and last resort, run in the house, slam the door, grab a gun I have tucked away there and if ANYONE you dont know enters... Shoot them, many times. Ok, back to that night. If I had a gun handy, literally for self defense in case the idiot got out of the truck or opened fire, I would have at popped at least the passenger side rear tire with my pocket knife, then called the cops to pull over the rim sparking blue truck, if not following him the whole way in the pathy while on the cell phone... I'd probably have tried for both rear but that risks being on the drivers side... Regardless, you get the point. I'll happily pay for a tire if it was everything was innocently misunderstood. I DON'T think that was the case. Ok, point in fact. My GF was followed home by a wierdo. He did nothing other than scare her and worry me. I would have 'marked' him for the cops to find out WTF if I had a gun. I could have done that without a gun, but if said wierdo had one, I'd likely be shot. I think this is a realistic scenario, I've dealt with things like this before. I'm not afraid for myself and don't cary a gun. I'll use one if I have to, but it's not been needed yet; I'm no coyboy, nor am I an easy mark. I'm afraid for my pretty little weak GF who can't defend herself against an aggresive or armed assailant. Am I wrong or right? I don't give a crap. Mess with me, and you may get a break. Mess with my GF and you may not. Yes, I have a hand cannon stashed in the garage now. B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vsicks Pathy Posted December 22, 2007 Share Posted December 22, 2007 (edited) Yes, good point. I have spent too many years living 'cheaply' with little of my own of any worth while working security at clubs, etc. Meaning I wasn't worried about myself but had no one else and not much to worry about. This does make 'security' MUCH easier. Let me tell a brief story... 4 months ago I'm in the garage having a cigarette when the GF pulls in the driveway, QUICK. Jumps out of the car and damn near runs through the garage (door open) to the house door. I ask"wtf?". She says "He watched me in the store, followed me outside and then followed me here" and points to the blue pickup that is stopped across our driveway, preventing her car from exiting. @!*%! The truck windows are tinted so I can't see anything. I walk to the garage opening, arms up and gesticulating/vocalizing "WTF IS UP"!! The truck doesn't move. @!*%! Ok, thats all I can do and I don't dare get any closer as I don't know what the person is intending. A gun would be appropriate now but they are tucked away upstairs and unreachable for this. I ducked down the side of the driveway to try to get a license plate #, but they drive slowly to the cul-de-sac, turn around and drive off. I can't get a plate # due to the distance/movment/ lighting and trying to keep out of the way. My success=0 Ok, net result is no harm done, the truck was never seen again. That doesn't mean @!*%. The GF is scared @!*%less. I've advised her of many tactics, how to handle things, where to go and last resort, run in the house, slam the door, grab a gun I have tucked away there and if ANYONE you dont know enters... Shoot them, many times. Ok, back to that night. If I had a gun handy, literally for self defense in case the idiot got out of the truck or opened fire, I would have at popped at least the passenger side rear tire with my pocket knife, then called the cops to pull over the rim sparking blue truck, if not following him the whole way in the pathy while on the cell phone... I'd probably have tried for both rear but that risks being on the drivers side... Regardless, you get the point. I'll happily pay for a tire if it was everything was innocently misunderstood. I DON'T think that was the case. Ok, point in fact. My GF was followed home by a wierdo. He did nothing other than scare her and worry me. I would have 'marked' him for the cops to find out WTF if I had a gun. I could have done that without a gun, but if said wierdo had one, I'd likely be shot. I think this is a realistic scenario, I've dealt with things like this before. I'm not afraid for myself and don't cary a gun. I'll use one if I have to, but it's not been needed yet; I'm no coyboy, nor am I an easy mark. I'm afraid for my pretty little weak GF who can't defend herself against an aggresive or armed assailant. Am I wrong or right? I don't give a crap. Mess with me, and you may get a break. Mess with my GF and you may not. Yes, I have a hand cannon stashed in the garage now. B Still smoking B. Shame on you. Though your story is relevant to you, it isn't relevant to what happened in this case. Joe Horn (murderer) was tucked safely away in his house peeping through a window. He was unseen and safe. How do we know he was unseen. The two petty criminals would not have broken into the house in the first place had they noticed someone watching them. He was told not to go out of the house 19 times. He predicted he will kill and did exactly that. He shot two petty criminals in the back like a lowly, gutless coward. That's actually what he is, A COWARD. He shot them on his neighbours front lawn. Neighbours he readily admits to not knowing. His story now is that the neighbours asked him to look after their property. Would you ask someone you don't know to care for you gear? I think not. Ever broken the speed limit or "J" walked B? Worth a bullet in the back? Let John Horn decide and you're a dead man. Edited December 22, 2007 by Vsicks Pathy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daftpup Posted December 22, 2007 Share Posted December 22, 2007 You know, if you were to do this in Oregon you'd get charged with murder. Gun/homeowner/shooting people for kicks laws are not the same in all US states. Bottom line, there is no reason someone should have the right to end your life over a handful of property. It doesn't pay for the property, it doesn't make anyone feel any better, it costs everyone $$ and time to investigate the shooting, etc...what a complete waste. 88 is dead on! Why sacrifice your life for some possessions. Not a fair tradeoff as I estimate. The gap between haves and havenots is far too wide in the US and prolly just a little thinner as a Rock overall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unccpathfinder Posted December 22, 2007 Author Share Posted December 22, 2007 violent criminals start off somewhere and typically as you get away with things the following events get bigger possibly breaking into your house at night robbing you and raping your wife/daughter you had not approached him with a firearm and he shot you in the gut which was enough to disable you but you could still hear the yelling and screaming of your significant others right before you die... I've got (ex)friends from all different places and i've seen them go from stealing candy bars to big time drug dealers that have broke into places and killed folks b/c they were robbing them and something went wrong... and if the caller wanted to kill someone in cold blood why did he call the 911 in the 1st place instead of running over there and popping those guys then calling the cops? He was trying to do it the right way but to me he sounded like an older man and possibly a veteran to which most of them would have done the same thing...my buddies grandfather almost died times in Korea and they have had folks set off their alarm by trying to break in at night and if he would have gotten a sight on them they would be dead now this is probably more of the way you guys think it should have been handled...but this kid some retardations but it reinforces my point of committing multiple crimes... http://news14.com/content/top_stories/5910...ce/Default.aspx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vsicks Pathy Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 They used to at least be fair out there, just had to be in fear of loosing your own life when you shoot and you were in the clear. I was only ever on the shot at end of things in CA (here too, but anyway), just glad the stupid latinos and wanna be gang bangers never learned how to shoot what they toted. What were they toting GG? No references anywhere (that I can find) suggests the two petty criminals were armed. What is clear is that the pretty crims were trying to get away, just as Joe Horn said on the tape (transcript here). Even more clear is that the petty criminals weren't on Joe Horn's property at all. He chased them down and shot them in the back from 15 foot away. What a hero! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 Still smoking B. Shame on you. Yeah, no sheit... I have the next 10 days off and plan to dump them... again... While my story isn't the same as whats discussed, my point is that there is a place in american society for legal firearm ownership without the rootin tootin cowboy attitude. I can tell you simply, other than the fact that I like marksmanship (which I can do with my pellet rifle), the main reason that I have firearms is that too many ashholes have them and you need one in change. I've often said I'd willingly take on Schwartenegger with my favorite club (yes, I have a favorite) and guns are for pathetic ashholes who can't back their attitude. That said, I have guns for the pathetic ashholes and wont hesitate to shoot if threatened in my home. He shot two petty criminals in the back I haven't followed up on the story, but where did you get that info?? B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vsicks Pathy Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 I haven't followed up on the story, but where did you get that info?? B http://www.gunguys.com/?p=2706 http://kathmanduk2.wordpress.com/2007/12/0...ck-by-joe-horn/ http://rackjite.com/archives/983-NEW-Texas...-Back!.html http://lonestartimes.com/2007/12/07/uh-oh-...es-in-the-back/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 Ok, thanks for the links... From the links, it seems like he shot them in the back. No, I'm not cool with that, not over stolen property. Too bad they are illegal immigrants, it will muddy the waters. That said, he went too far. WTF?? Doesn't he know to aim low?? Flesh wounds leave a trail that dogs can follow at a run. I think it was 1/2 racially motivated. Of course, I hate thieves and have no sympathy for these two. Simply said, if they didn't break in this would have not occured. Joe went a bit overboard. I don't support his actions. I have a 12 gauge shot gun and I can shoot someone running away to flesh wound. The farther it is, the harder it gets though... The real point is why? I could almost as easily follow them in the Pathy... Joe don't like Negros, and if we monitored the borders... End of Post. B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vsicks Pathy Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 Joe went a bit overboard. I don't support his actions. B I am glad he only went a little overboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimGreg Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 What were they toting GG? Are you a blonde? I didn't get hit, so I don't have a bullets to give you the make and caliber, and I didn't think after they shot at me that they would want to have a chit chat session so I could ask them.... if that's what you want to know. Or were you asking if they flashed a chicken then shot at me with it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted December 24, 2007 Share Posted December 24, 2007 LMAO GG, well said... If you want to mince words V6, I didn't say 'a little'. I said 'a bit'. That is known as droll understatement... I've said where I stand on this, but at the end of it all, no one would have been hurt if the crime was not commited... Yeah, dying for breaking and entering/burglary seems a bit harsh, but hey, don't do it in the first place!! Geez, problem solved, just like that!! I just don't find myself losing sleep over this, or the loss of 2 parasidic lives. Harsh or real?? B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vsicks Pathy Posted December 24, 2007 Share Posted December 24, 2007 Are you a blonde? I didn't get hit, so I don't have a bullets to give you the make and caliber, and I didn't think after they shot at me that they would want to have a chit chat session so I could ask them.... if that's what you want to know. Or were you asking if they flashed a chicken then shot at me with it? Blonde? No. Not at all. Given the subject matter and your description of the wannabe gang bangers etc. And then my reply that referenced the wannabe gang bangers to the crime committed by Joe Horn, even a dill would realise that I obviously thought you were talking about the subject matter... Not the company you choose to keep. Or is it that you can't grasp such a simple thing? Since we are on the issue of people shooting at you.. Why do they SHOOT at you GG? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vsicks Pathy Posted December 24, 2007 Share Posted December 24, 2007 LMAO GG, well said...If you want to mince words V6, I didn't say 'a little'. I said 'a bit'. That is known as droll understatement... I've said where I stand on this, but at the end of it all, no one would have been hurt if the crime was not commited... Yeah, dying for breaking and entering/burglary seems a bit harsh, but hey, don't do it in the first place!! Geez, problem solved, just like that!! I just don't find myself losing sleep over this, or the loss of 2 parasidic lives. Harsh or real?? B Not mincing words at all B, it seems I was a little, or just a bit (if you prefer) too droll for you in this instance. Good to see that things can still go over your head. To which crime do you refer to? The burglary or the double homicide? As for losing sleep, why would anyone other than the shooting victims loved ones lose any sleep? As for your parasite line... I assume you know these guys story to say such a thing. All I can say is that I have never been in a situation that I had to steal to bring home money etc. to feed my dependents. But if I couldn't get a job for one reason or another, or any type of Government assistance, and I was desperate, then I too would be, in your view, a parasite. What would you do, if you were desperate, to keep your family fed B? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted December 24, 2007 Share Posted December 24, 2007 *snort* Good to see that things can still go over your head. Nope, not at all. I ducked... The crime is the burglary. Shooter Joe wouldn't have had targets otherwise. Lets never lose sight of that fact, eh? It is where everything else started from.... Nope, I have never been in a place where I was so desperate that I couldn't work for a living. Yes, I've spent many years making under the national poverty level income. No, I didn't have to resort to crime (you know, taking away someone elses efforts) to survive. Yes, I would if I had to. No, I wouldn't be suprised if people shot at me for it. Once again, Joe went too far. Once again, nothing would have ever happened had the two not broken into someones home to steal. Hell, had they not run, they'd only be in prison. As for the parasite statement, yes, it holds true. Parasitism is a type of symbiotic relationship between organisms of different species in which one, the parasite, benefits from a prolonged, close association with the other, the host, which is harmed. The fact that the parasites were illegal immigrants just serves to show they already had disrespect for law and due process. Look at the pictures of the deceased and the video of his lady. They weren't starving. This wasn't about food. It is about someone thinking they can get away with a quick profit at someone elses expense. I've known enough pieces of shait in my time to know that some people simply can not integrate into society. There is always an element who thinks it is ok (or even beneficial) to get by at anothers expense. I will never condone that. The shooting is wrong, but don't try to twist it so much, V6. B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vsicks Pathy Posted December 24, 2007 Share Posted December 24, 2007 *snort*Nope, not at all. I ducked... The crime is the burglary. Shooter Joe wouldn't have had targets otherwise. Lets never lose sight of that fact, eh? It is where everything else started from.... Nope, I have never been in a place where I was so desperate that I couldn't work for a living. Yes, I've spent many years making under the national poverty level income. No, I didn't have to resort to crime (you know, taking away someone elses efforts) to survive. Yes, I would if I had to. No, I wouldn't be suprised if people shot at me for it. Once again, Joe went too far. Once again, nothing would have ever happened had the two not broken into someones home to steal. Hell, had they not run, they'd only be in prison. As for the parasite statement, yes, it holds true. The fact that the parasites were illegal immigrants just serves to show they already had disrespect for law and due process. Look at the pictures of the deceased and the video of his lady. They weren't starving. This wasn't about food. It is about someone thinking they can get away with a quick profit at someone elses expense. I've known enough pieces of shait in my time to know that some people simply can not integrate into society. There is always an element who thinks it is ok (or even beneficial) to get by at anothers expense. I will never condone that. The shooting is wrong, but don't try to twist it so much, V6. B Not twisting anything B. As I eluded..... I do not know the circumstances of the deceased. I only assumed that you do given your comment. The question was a hypothetical question for you. As I think we all would do, you would too. Anything to keep your family going... Had the racist Joe not seen the B&E. Had crazy Joe not shown a blatant disrespect for law and due process and listened to the law enforcement officer and not left the house. Had the mad man not shot the two unarmed petty criminals at point blank range in the back, they'd be in prison too. Let's not lose sight of those facts either. Unfortunately two wrongs do not ever make a right. It is a sad reflection on a society when life is considered so cheaply. That's the true crime. P.S the parasite definition does really fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted December 24, 2007 Share Posted December 24, 2007 they'd be in prison too. Yes, I'm sure they would be. Do you want to bet that this is not their first time? Their tenth? They just woke up and said, "Hey, I know, lets try something new!!!"? I seriously doubt it... I remember when you were down and out a while back. Would you have been so cavalier about people breaking into your home, taking the food from your mouth?? Life IS cheap V6, and has been all through out history. What makes you think that all of a sudden, man kind is so altruistic? Most people toil day to day to make ends meet. There is little love for those who would prey upon others. Sure, most of us wouldn't have killed the burglars, but then, few are weeping for them. Unfortunately two wrongs do not ever make a right. That is the truth of it. B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ardavis78 Posted December 24, 2007 Share Posted December 24, 2007 (edited) Well, VSicks is wearing this post out too...Just like the last gun control post...He lives on the other side of the globe, but knows all about our country...I can't quite figure that out... Edited December 24, 2007 by ardavis78 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimGreg Posted December 24, 2007 Share Posted December 24, 2007 Blonde? No. Not at all. Given the subject matter and your description of the wannabe gang bangers etc. And then my reply that referenced the wannabe gang bangers to the crime committed by Joe Horn, even a dill would realise that I obviously thought you were talking about the subject matter... Not the company you choose to keep. Or is it that you can't grasp such a simple thing? Since we are on the issue of people shooting at you.. Why do they SHOOT at you GG? The wanna be Gang Bangers are not my kind of company, probably one reason they were shooting at me, as you ignored my previous statement, I wasn't going back and ask them why specifically. When I was in high school, the ones there would carry their guns to school (this was in the days before Columbine, etc.) and flash them if they felt you crossed them in some way, never got shot at in those days though, they were to scared to actually do more than show off. I was in college (different town) when I was shot at by a group of em at the local mall as I was going to my car. The latino pricks were in the pool hall I went to one night giving me hard looks and looking my girlfriend at the time up and down, no words or any other confrontation. W played one game and left, they followed us out and shot at us as we drove off. (This was a little town, the pool hall only had 4 tables and parking along the frontage.) As for the subject matter, my point was, the bad guys do carry here, and they don't care what is legal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vsicks Pathy Posted December 24, 2007 Share Posted December 24, 2007 (edited) Do you want to bet that this is not their first time? Their tenth? Given their method of B&E (smash a window with a crow bar), I'd suggest they had seen too many movies. There are far less suspicious ways of gaining entry to a house. Having said that, I have no doubt that they have done this kind of thing before. Strange though how they never progressed with their thinking.... They didn't see the need to carry firearms, to either protect themselves or intimidate victims? There goes the natural progression theory put up by some. These idiots were not hard core criminals.. They remained petty criminals.... More a nuisance than anything else. We can speculate forever on what might have happened if..... Speculation doesn't amount to fact though. I remember when you were down and out a while back. Would you have been so cavalier about people breaking into your home, taking the food from your mouth?? My home, my mouth. There in lays the difference. Joe Horn's home or mouth were never at risk. I have a security system as my first line of defense for when I am not home. My possessions are insured anyway, as well they should be for fire and theft, so take them, who gives a sh!t. The new for old policy that I spend my hard earned on will cover my loss. I have neighbours that look out for me too. Would I want any of them to kill someone on my behalf or even condone such an outrageous crime? No! How ridiculous. Do you think I would I want the blood of someone that insignificant on my hands? We are not Neanderthals anymore, are we? Do not misunderstand me B, I am all for an eye for an eye and do unto others as you'd have done to yourself. Think about that for a second... Life IS cheap V6, and has been all through out history. What makes you think that all of a sudden, man kind is so altruistic? B Life might be cheap over there B but it certainly isn't here. We try to embrace it here as do most forward thinking mature societies around the world. Those that do take lives we call murderers, and we do our best to put those scumbags behind bars. Edited December 24, 2007 by Vsicks Pathy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vsicks Pathy Posted December 24, 2007 Share Posted December 24, 2007 Well, VSicks is wearing this post out too...Just like the last gun control post...He lives on the other side of the globe, but knows all about our country...I can't quite figure that out... Try educating yourself then. You might just get a clue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vsicks Pathy Posted December 24, 2007 Share Posted December 24, 2007 The wanna be Gang Bangers are not my kind of company, probably one reason they were shooting at me, as you ignored my previous statement, I wasn't going back and ask them why specifically. When I was in high school, the ones there would carry their guns to school (this was in the days before Columbine, etc.) and flash them if they felt you crossed them in some way, never got shot at in those days though, they were to scared to actually do more than show off. I was in college (different town) when I was shot at by a group of em at the local mall as I was going to my car. The latino pricks were in the pool hall I went to one night giving me hard looks and looking my girlfriend at the time up and down, no words or any other confrontation. W played one game and left, they followed us out and shot at us as we drove off. (This was a little town, the pool hall only had 4 tables and parking along the frontage.) As for the subject matter, my point was, the bad guys do carry here, and they don't care what is legal. I do apologise GG. I, for some reason got the distinct impression that you had been shot at on various occasions, not just the one time. You can take solace in the fact that they waited till you were in the car and driving off before they shot at you I suppose. And if they didn't hit such a large target you can also assume they were just trying to scare you and more than likely were firing into the air. I am not be any means diminishing your fear. I too would have been scared in your situation. I had, well when I say I there was a group of us, a copper shoot at me once. We were hanging about, loitering I suppose you could call it, when a police car showed up. An officer got out of the car and demanded we come over to him. We gave him a mouthful, as you do when you are about 15 yr old, and started off in the opposite direction. He demanded that we stop, we kept going. BANG! We ran from that bugger quicker than we had ever ran in our lives. That shot, I assume in the air and for a bit of fun on the coppers behalf, had us all sitting 3" higher than usual. It certainly gave us young lads something to talk about. lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted December 26, 2007 Share Posted December 26, 2007 My home, my mouth. There in lays the difference. Joe Horn's home or mouth were never at risk. I have a security system as my first line of defense for when I am not home. My possessions are insured anyway, as well they should be for fire and theft, so take them, who gives a sh!t. The new for old policy that I spend my hard earned on will cover my loss. I have neighbours that look out for me too. Would I want any of them to kill someone on my behalf or even condone such an outrageous crime? No! How ridiculous. Do you think I would I want the blood of someone that insignificant on my hands? We are not Neanderthals anymore, are we? Do not misunderstand me B, I am all for an eye for an eye and do unto others as you'd have done to yourself. Think about that for a second... Fair enough, V6. Remember though, not everyone has a security system nor comprehensive insurance. Does that make it ok to steal from them?? No, I'm sure you don't want your neighbors shooting at petty criminals. Neither do I, but more for their sake than the criminals. These idiots were not hard core criminals.. They remained petty criminals.... More a nuisance than anything else. We can speculate forever on what might have happened if..... Well, define petty and hard core. Do you have a rap sheet on them? I'd be interested... There is no speculation on what might have happened if.... IF they never broke in... Like I said before: 1) This wouldn't have occurred had they not indulged in criminal activity, ie. B&E. 2) Joe went farther than was warranted, from what I have learned. 3) The police weren't as informative as would seem reasonable, which would have mitigated the situation. 4) This wouldn't have occurred had they not indulged in criminal activity, ie. B&E. No one was right, not just Joe. Can you not give creedence to 1 and 4 if nothing else?? B Sorry, got to add... Life might be cheap over there B but it certainly isn't here. We try to embrace it here as do most forward thinking mature societies around the world. Those that do take lives we call murderers, and we do our best to put those scumbags behind bars. Please, V6... The Aussie murder rate isn't the same as the US, but it's not like there is none... The "we" you talk about are people who try to be reasonable, the great majority, regardless of geography. Problem is that EVERY society has it's "scumbags". My "life IS cheap" statement is about mankind, not a nation, and it holds true. More so in some area and less in others, but NO society is exempt. It doesn't make it nice, but it doesn't make it untrue... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ardavis78 Posted December 26, 2007 Share Posted December 26, 2007 Try educating yourself then. You might just get a clue. HAHAHAHAHA!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02silverpathy Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 "Illeagal aliens" means they could get no job...also then just stay illegal...I like the conversation between V6 and B, both are in the right just not giving any ground. There are plenty of "illegals" around that do hard work for money..no tax. Imagine V6 you make 100K a year (USD) and due to taxes bring home approx 55-60K of that (not including benefits or whatever), someone else that makes 30K a year brings home 22K...there is already a slant that angers people now throw in a hard working Illegal that makes 20K a year and brings home 20K a year.....yikes the recipe is bad. Illegals, at least in my state cost me lots of $$$ I even have uninsured mexican driver insurance on my bill...no sheat!! It may only be .38 cents a quarter, but if I could get that $1.52 from everyone in my state every year****I would not need to steal or work. We can try to make the situation at hand simple but the reality is that it is much much more complex and has many many factors (no i do not work for the gov't and like to jumble more issues in under the radar).....the biggest factor is that suddenly 1 theft crime and a gun abusing idiot cause the whole nation, down to a 4x4 forum, to consider gun control...that is a nasty shift in journalism that this country has a terrible problem with. When in doubt blame the journalist! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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