frankle1 Posted December 17, 2007 Share Posted December 17, 2007 Hello all - I have a question - I was driving from NYC to Pittsburgh in the snow this weekend in my 1995 Pathfinder XE and had the 4 wheel drive engaged, about 1/2 through the trip I noticed a slight burning smell followed by a loud whining noise, then smoke from under the hood. I pulled over and there were some flames from down low under the engine which died relatively quickly. I have the truck in a shop in the middle of PA, and they are telling me it is the front rear differential which has "burned-up". Given what happened that seems to fit the situation.....does anyone know how much this might cost? Should I junk it....otherwise it is in great shape, body is good, only about 85,000 on it, but clearly I should have done some preventive maintenance on the differential. Thanks in advance Gordon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earth1 Posted December 17, 2007 Share Posted December 17, 2007 (edited) Yikes. That sounds really scary. I've never heard of a differential catching on fire. Are they sure that's all that is damaged? Are any lines or wires or anything else damaged? How fast were you going in 4wheel? Was the dif leaking? The only way it could get hot enough to burn is if the thing was bone dry. A dif wouldn't cost much from a junkyard, but unfortunately since you are stuck on the road that repair is likely gonna be spendy. Keep us posted and let us know what those guys are gonna charge you. A ruined dif is no reason to junk a 95 with 85K on it. I hope you're not at some shady shop, sucks man. I would start calling around and getting estimates to make sure they aren't gonna try and screw you. Edited December 17, 2007 by Earth1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey.T Posted December 17, 2007 Share Posted December 17, 2007 To get it down the road, you could drop the front drive shaft, assuming you can get the front hubs to let go.... A used JY Diff should not be to spendy... Depending on your location there might be one available from this board As for Trashing your pathy.... Hell NO!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giancarlo93 Posted December 17, 2007 Share Posted December 17, 2007 Front rear differential? WTF? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankle1 Posted December 18, 2007 Author Share Posted December 18, 2007 Yeah - that's what he said "front rear differential" but I assume he meant front differential. I am quite sure that it was completely dry - I never noticed any leaking - but the sound it made certainly sounded like gears grinding up. It was in the middle of the snow-storm so I was going anywhere from 45 - 60 mph, constantly in 4 wheel drive. I wish it had happened closer to home, because I definitely could hear a big repair bill in the guys voice at the shop. He said that if he had to buy the differential new he would recommend trashing the pathy because it would cost more than it is worth! He was going to check junk yards but he said he needed to find out the gear ratio first - does that make sense? So do you think that if I can get the front hubs to let go, I can drive it in 2 wheel drive? Or would that cause a problem? I thought to trying that before I left it at the shop, but I was worried about causing more damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earth1 Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 Get your truck out of that shop. Pay and cut your loses. You should be able shift into 2wd and drive it home assuming there was no fire damage to the electrical. Hopefully they haven't taken it apart yet. Did you drive it to the shop in 2WD? I wouldn't let those asses touch my rig. If you are able to do the work yourself a JY dif shouldn't be more than $100. If you were nearer Colorado there are guys all over with SAS that would give you one already out. Good luck. Just my opinion, but if the roads are good enough to go 45 MPH you shouldn't need 4WD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jitterymonkey Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 Get your truck out of that shop. Pay and cut your loses. You should be able shift into 2wd and drive it home assuming there was no fire damage to the electrical. Hopefully they haven't taken it apart yet. Did you drive it to the shop in 2WD? I wouldn't let those asses touch my rig. Front Rear Differential? I totally agree, get your Pathy out of that shop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeV Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 How far from home ( AAA gold tows 100 miles for free ($75/year) I never have used it fo my vehicle but many times for family members; pays for itself first tow, and if ya get REAL stuck it pays for a second tow truck for an hour or 2) Someday I will get REAL stuck and call 'em. Good Luck! MV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankle1 Posted December 19, 2007 Author Share Posted December 19, 2007 About 260 miles to home... if anyone would like to buy it, I would gladly sell it at this point. The shop guy said that it could not be driven in 2 wheel drive because the "differential will still spin" - in other words there will still be spinning gears (or spinning mass of metal, given that the gears are probably a mess) which could again heat up and cause a fire. Does this make sense to those of you with more knowledge of the mechanics of this truck? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laxman0324 Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 About 260 miles to home... if anyone would like to buy it, I would gladly sell it at this point. The shop guy said that it could not be driven in 2 wheel drive because the "differential will still spin" - in other words there will still be spinning gears (or spinning mass of metal, given that the gears are probably a mess) which could again heat up and cause a fire. Does this make sense to those of you with more knowledge of the mechanics of this truck? if you get a set of manual locking hubs for it you would then stop the front drivetrain from spinning even in 2wd and you could limp it home, i just got one for my r50 for $100, with that low of mileage i would not junk the thing. If you really want to though, PM me with the price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammyb33 Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 either that or REMOVE the auto hubs or remove them to buy some JY auto hubs if you cannot afford the $100 pricetag on the manual locking hubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankle1 Posted December 19, 2007 Author Share Posted December 19, 2007 Is it difficult to remove the auto hubs? Would someone briefly explain how this works to me? The auto hubs are the things in the center of the wheel, correct? and removing them will stop the drive train from spinning? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laxman0324 Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 Is it difficult to remove the auto hubs? Would someone briefly explain how this works to me? The auto hubs are the things in the center of the wheel, correct? and removing them will stop the drive train from spinning? http://npora.ipbhost.com//index.php?showto...t=0&start=0 check that forum out, i was thinking about getting them and i just got them on...took me about 45 mins max, bout the same if its your first time with this but you know how to do work on the truck, if not a shop could do it and you could probably talk them out of a full hour of labor...maybe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earth1 Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 Don't let this discourage you into selling it. It really isn't too bad replacing the dif, certainly not worth starting over with a whole new rig. You may not find another wd21 with that kind of miles any time soon. Are we sure changing hubs will let the front spin? Assuming it's stuck in 4 because of damage to the auto hubs, another set of auto should hubs get him going. Here are my questions. How did it drive in 2wd? Is the thing taken apart? Is it driveable? I don't think you can tell if the dif is spining without looking inside. After hearing the "front rear" thing and "it's not worth it" and not knowing how to find the gear ratio, it really sounds like these guys don't know what the hell they're doing. Most shops wouldn't assume the liability of used junkyard parts, that could be another red flag. 260 miles sounds like towing will cost a fortune. Maybe there's a member in that area that can help you get it out of there? Or a local 4x4 club? Someone from that area should be able to help you find a trustworthy mechanic or at least vouch for that shop or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankle1 Posted December 19, 2007 Author Share Posted December 19, 2007 Thanks for the great link laxman....makes sense now. I am not sure at all about how it drives in 2wd - I did not try it, since I was loaded down with the GF, dog and suitcases I was trying to get back on the road with a rental, but I am kicking myself now for not spending a few minutes giving it a try, as I thought of it. I agree with the assessment of this shop, when I spoke to him yesterday he again kept repeating "you need a new front rear", I asked if he meant a front differential, and he agreed. He said that I also needed new axles because they were "moving around like crazy" but unless this was caused by the differential problem, I know for a fact they are fine, because I just had it up on a lift looking at everything about 3 weeks ago. I like the idea of replacing the hubs, maybe that will give them something to do so the shop will not be so bent out of shape and get me back on the road. Is there a specific part number? Where is the best place to get these? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 If you want to be SURE that it's out of 4WD.....have the mechanic remove the front driveshaft, and the CV's. The diff WON'T spin if that's the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankle1 Posted December 19, 2007 Author Share Posted December 19, 2007 Spoke to the shop - the guy said he will remove the driveshaft which goes to the differential and that should work...does this make sense? I assumed the hubs would also have to be removed, but maybe not? thanks for all the help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 It all depends. If the hubs are screwed, they'll keep the front end engaged. I'd have him remove the CV joints from the front end as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankle1 Posted December 19, 2007 Author Share Posted December 19, 2007 Thanks, will try this, hopefully it will work. Anyone know where I can get a used front differential? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laxman0324 Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 It all depends. If the hubs are screwed, they'll keep the front end engaged. I'd have him remove the CV joints from the front end as well. I agree with everything simon has said...its def. not worth dumping your pathy just because you had a little mishap. Get them to remove the front driveline, make sure the cv's as well because with the auto hubs they still spin when the tires spin. Get it home and get it to a mechanic you trust. You should be able to pull a diff out of one in a junkyard or i think some of the members were saying a certain jeep diff would work there, i would trust them over me as some of them own wd21s and i have an r50. good luck and let us know how it works out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 If you have a V6 WD21, a front diff should be easy enough to source at a local junkyard. They don't go that often, so chances are, if you pull one, it'll be good. The one thing you'll have to pay attention to, is the gear ratio of your truck. On a little plaque under the hood, you'll either see HG43 (4.3xxx gears) or HG46 (4.6xx gears). Make sure you get a differential that matches your gear ratio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earth1 Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 I guess you would be able to see the drive pinion turning on the dif. with the driveshaft out, there are only 8 bolts holding the drivesharft in place, hopefully that works. If the pinion (or more correctly the flange) moves while shifted into 2wd the hubs are stuck and the CVs have to come out to change the hubs to get on the road. If you need new hubs, you might want to just upgrade to manuals. Like mentioned, you can get them for about $100, replacement autos will probably cost more from a dealership. You need 27 spline hubs; Warn, MileMarker, Superwinch, and a rare Dana are probably the only options. Simon, can you see anythhng turning in the dif through the input tube with the CVs out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey.T Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 can you see anythhng turning in the dif through the input tube with the CVs out? Front shaft out and the CV's removed... nothing that I can think of... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earth1 Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 Thanks, will try this, hopefully it will work. Anyone know where I can get a used front differential? Start combing your local junkyards, I can get a front end for $65 here (you pull yards). You should be able to find one no problem. I could get you one for free here in CO, but shipping to the East coast would be cost prohibitive. Like Simon said (hehe) make sure the gears on the donor match, any year WD21 will work. Are you able to do the work yourself? If you can pull yours at home first, it will make stripping the donor easier at the yard since you'll be familiar with it. You actually won't end up spending that much if you can do it. You'll be glad you didn't abandon the pathy if you only end up spending two or three hundred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 I guess you would be able to see the drive pinion turning on the dif. with the driveshaft out, there are only 8 bolts holding the drivesharft in place, hopefully that works. If the pinion (or more correctly the flange) moves while shifted into 2wd the hubs are stuck and the CVs have to come out to change the hubs to get on the road. If you need new hubs, you might want to just upgrade to manuals. Like mentioned, you can get them for about $100, replacement autos will probably cost more from a dealership. You need 27 spline hubs; Warn, MileMarker, Superwinch, and a rare Dana are probably the only options. Simon, can you see anythhng turning in the dif through the input tube with the CVs out? Nope..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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