grie78 Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 I had some trouble getting my truck to start in mid-October around the same time as the bad snow storm we (Buffalo) got. the truck would act as though the battery was about dead when I'd try to start it, and when it wouldn't start, I could bang on the starter, and it'd fire right up. eventually, I had turned off the dome light because my door sometimes wouldn't shut all the way, and after a short time, it would open enough to trigger the dome light. I figured this would at least help the battery, but instead it caused the end of my starter problems. I'm still not sure how. a couple weeks ago, it started acting up again; turning over very slowly, so I bought a new battery. problem solved. then yesterday, it wouldn't start at all. I tried banging on the starter while the key was turned, but it wouldn't go. I hooked up a battery charger to my battery, so that after trying to start the truck, it would recharge immediately. after a few hours, the only thing i got, was about a 1/4 turn from the flywheel, but not enough to fire up my truck. I though that since we had sub-zero temps the night before, maybe it needed to warm up a little, but with it being about 40 degrees this morning when I went to start it to leave for work, it still wouldn't start. I tried to knock lightly on the solenoid also, but it didn't help. instead I saw a couple sparks. I can hear the solenoid clicking when I try to start it, but that's it. I have a feeling the starter is completely fried, but I'm not sure. any advice would be appreciated. thanks for your help, Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k9sar Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 check your voltages at the starter and solenoid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedPath88 Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 I just had a similar problem... take k9's advice first then if that does not lead anywhere, take the starter out and have it tested. I ended up having to replace mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grie78 Posted February 21, 2007 Author Share Posted February 21, 2007 I've never done any voltage testing on any of my vehicles. what should I use to test it, and what should I be looking for when I do? if nothing else works, my stepdad said he'd come over Sat. to give me a hand changing the starter since, everybody I've spoken with that knows the truck say it's a royal PITA to swap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aries247 Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 just take it out and have it tested. that way if it is bad you already have the core with you. just my .02. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
govols74n Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 (edited) Take a screwdriver and touch the big terminal (POS) on your starter to one of the smaller ones...it will turn over if it's any good. (take off all jewelery and dont touch the metal part with your hand) see below for more.........hope this helps CHECKING OUT A STARTER MOTOR AND SOLENOID Starter motor problems usually are indicated by the following symptom: Turn the key to the START position and you hear a loud click, or sometimes you hear nothing. The headlights are bright and don't dim when you turn the key to START, and everything else electrical seems to work fine. It could be a bad starter neutral switch or a bad key switch but about 99% of the time it's a bad starter or starter solenoid. Here is the procedure for checking out a starter motor and its solenoid. Problems in a starter motor normally involve a "bad spot" on the commutator, the electrical section of the armature that contacts the brushes. They get dirty and worn down. The brushes sometimes wear out but not normally. Open circuits can occur in the armature or in stator windings. You could fix these problems but the normal procedure is to replace the starter with a rebuilt. If the starter motor armature just happens to stop on a "bad spot" the circuit is open and the starter won't turn. Sometimes you can "rock" the engine by hand (be careful - make sure the ignition switch is off) or in a standard transmission car you can put it in gear and "rock" the car by pushing it forward or backward a few inches - this can move the starter motor off the "bad spot" and get you on your way, but it's a crap shoot as to when it will happen again. Sometimes rapping the starter with a hammer can make temporary contact where the contact was flaky, but you can do more harm to the starter than good if ya hit it too hard!! You can diagnose the starter by measuring the current draw. You can purchase a small "clamp on" ammeter that you simply lay on the cable to the starter - ya don't have to disconnect anything. Crank it and watch the little needle tell you what the current is. If there is a high current draw then you know that the starter is at fault. There is one main reason for a starter to fail when it is hot - worn bearings, especially in the tailshaft. The heat generated in the starter by the engine and the exhaust pipes (sometimes) causes the armature to expand. If the bearings are worn then the armature drags (actually contacts) on the stator causing a short circuit and a high friction drag. Sometimes just replacing the bearings can fix the problem. When checking out a starter motor it is a good idea to remove it from the car and lock it firmly in a vice. If you don't hold it down securely, like in the jaws of a vice, and it turns out to be good, it will twist rather violently when it spins and possibly fall off the bench onto your big toe - could really ruin your weekend. You can do the following test with the starter in the car but it makes it a bit more difficult and there is a chance of shorting out the test jumper cables to ground. Referring to the above diagram, the "big terminal" on the starter solenoid is where the battery + cable goes. There are one or two smaller terminals on the solenoid, one going to the "start" position on the ign switch. On a bench test, the negative battery jumper cable goes to the vice that is holding the starter by the frame. The Positive goes to the "big terminal" on the solenoid. Jump from the big terminal to one of the smaller ones with a jumper wire or a screwdriver blade to actuate the solenoid. It should click and the starter should whirrrrr. If it does, don't get carried away and let it spin freely for a long time - it's not good to run a starter with no load for extended periods of time, especially an old and tired one. If it doesn't spin, look for another "big" wire going into the starter. On GMs you can usually see it at the other end of the solenoid - it goes into the body of the starter. I'm not sure about other makes and models. Look around. Carefully touch the + jumper cable to it and the starter should immediately whirrrr and you should get a good sized spark - that is normal - the starter is a heavy current eater. If you get no whir from that test then the starter motor is fried inside. You can take it apart and see if it is fixable (new brushes, a clean-up of the commutator and possibly new windings, but at that point I would suggest a rebuilt starter/solenoid assy. If the starter did whir on the last test then you can remove the solenoid and either rebuild it or replace it, the later being a good idea. The new starter will come with a new or rebuilt Bendix drive which is probably next in line for failure. When going for a new starter make sure to bring the old one along with you. First, you can match it up to make sure the computer picked the right one for your vehicle and second, they charge a "core charge" for the old one - they want it back to be rebuilt and sold again. Just to make sure you got a good one you should bench test the new starter - it wouldn't be the first time a bad rebuilt was shipped Edited February 21, 2007 by govols74n Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey.T Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 aries247 Posted on Feb 21 2007, 12:02 PM just take it out and have it tested. that way if it is bad you already have the core with you. just my .02. now you got $.04 Between 3 Pathfinders and I think 5 Starters, one of which i dropped and broke... take it in test it, theres your core for when it tests bad... If its good, $5 says it will work fine once you re-install it and triple check your connections.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grie78 Posted February 22, 2007 Author Share Posted February 22, 2007 (edited) thank you for all the help and advice, I really appreciate it. I'll be working on it after work, and let you know how things turn out. too bad it's not as easy as the '79 TransAm I had. it only required two bolts, two connections, and about ten minutes to change the starter on that. Edited February 22, 2007 by grie78 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey.T Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 grie78 Posted on Feb 22 2007, 09:31 AM thank you for all the help and advice, I really appreciate it. I'll be working on it after work, and let you know how things turn out. too bad it's not as easy as the '79 TransAm I had. it only required two bolts, two connections, and about ten minutes to change the starter on that. Its almost that easy..... disco the battery 1st, remove the front skid plate 2 14 mm bolts and its loose, Disconnect the Oil Sending Unit Plug, turn the starter so that the solinoid is in the 12 to 1 oclock position(Straight UP) and slide it forward past the Motor Mount, over the Axel(little tight but it does fit), and out over the Center Link... disco the electical connections... 12 min Auto: take out the screws securing the Tranny cooler lines for alittle more flexibility -bounce- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k9sar Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 mine was not nearly that easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey.T Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 k9sar Posted on Feb 22 2007, 01:56 PM mine was not nearly that easy. Sounds like you need some more practice.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k9sar Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 (edited) Sometimes you can "rock" the engine by hand (be careful - make sure the ignition switch is off) or in a standard transmission car you can put it in gear and "rock" the car by pushing it forward or backward a few inches - this can move the starter motor off the "bad spot" and get you on your way, ummmmm no. Unless the starter is engaged with the flywheel at all times, which it isn't, this will not work. The hammer solution may vibrate it enough to rotate it off a bad spot or knock the brush dust away to allow a better connection but the engine will NOT move the starter. Also, you need not remove the starter to 'bench' test it. Check that you have 12V on the big red wire. That should be constant hot. IF so, you can energize your coil with a jumper cable from the battery or the red wire. If you have a seperate post on the starter itself that leads from the solenoid, you can bypass that and throw 12V directly tot he starter motor. IF it cranks the engine and scares the hell out of you since you're under it and are probably elbows-deep in the engine, you're starter is probably not the problem. Edited February 23, 2007 by k9sar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grie78 Posted March 27, 2007 Author Share Posted March 27, 2007 sorry for the delay, I had some unexpected trouble with the internet. I just wanted to thank everybody again for the assistance. I was able to get the starter off, but due to a lack of room, even after jacking up pass. side of the engine, I couldn't get it out. I ended up having it towed to a local mechanic to work on. I'm glad I did, since the used starter I was gonna put in, decided not to work when the mechanic got it installed. After technically changing out the starter twice, replacing it with a new one, and giving me an oil change, the final bill was $300 ($260 for the new starter). definitely not a deal I could've done on my own, my grandfather knew the mechanic. Next on the list is a new O2 sensor, and then a new exhaust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammyb33 Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 260 for a new starter?? holy crap. rebuilt i got quoted 110 at advance..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grie78 Posted March 29, 2007 Author Share Posted March 29, 2007 there wasn't much I could do about the price. most of the deal was done by my grandfather while I was at work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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