pathmaker1

I understand that tmorgan but the numbers in that Bobby Long test were for short side inners. Also we are talking about the weakest shaft which is the outer shaft. I have seen that info from Bobby Long on pirate. The outer shafts are most likely to break first. So unless I see some tests on the outers I still believe that D44 chromos ARE stronger that stock D60 shafts. This is a debate that will go on forever unless someone tests these shafts accurately, which you really cant. Also, Bobby Long did not do a shockload test on it just a straight twist. You need to test these shafts in a real world senerio which is basically impossible. This math makes sense to me: Stock D60 stub axle = 30spline x 1 5/16" diameter Stock D44 stub axle = 19spline x 1 1/4" diameter That's only a difference of 1/16", or 4.8% in diameter. 4340 alloy steel is about 35% stronger than the 1030/1040 steel used in OEM axle shafts. Even if the extra 5%(.0625") diameter of the D60 stub yielded 4x or 20% more strength(not likely), the 4340 D44 alloy outer axle would still be 15% stronger than a stock 1040 D60 stub. And also my arguement that a built D44 costs 1/3-1/2 the price of a built D60 depending on if you converted it to 35 spline outers. Price Vs. strenght a well built D44 is strong enough for our application. Now if I had a bunch of money i would have a badass buggy but im on a real world budget.

Honestly, the weight savings between a D44 / D60 and extra 1.5" of ground clearance under the center section are where the argument is won when defending the front axle choice for my Pathfinder. A D60 under something as light as a Pathfinder is overkill. D60 inners are stronger than D44 inners, because there's more of a size difference there than at the outer shafts. However, when comparing the parts that are likely to break first(outer axle shafts), they're not too much different in stock form. The shorter the axle, the less it will give/twist before snapping and the shortest axles in a D44, or D60 are the outer axles. Stock D60 stub axle = 30spline x 1 5/16" diameter Stock D44 stub axle = 19spline x 1 1/4" diameter That's only a difference of 1/16", or 4.8% in diameter. 4340 alloy steel is about 35% stronger than the 1030/1040 steel used in OEM axle shafts. Even if the extra 5%(.0625") diameter of the D60 stub yielded 4x or 20% more strength(not likely), the 4340 D44 alloy outer axle would still be 15% stronger than a stock 1040 D60 stub. - A well built D44hp will be strong enough for a Pathfinder and less expensive to build. - The D44 has better ground clearance. Ground clearance under the center section is about 1.5" lower on a D60. That's basically the same as running tires 3" smaller in diameter. - The D44 is lighter. You're looking at a weight savings of 100-150lbs depending on how the axle is dressed out. I do appreciate your opinions but I have researched my build for a year before buying parts. I have talked with many people with an incredible amount of knowledge about axles and thats why I have settled on my axle choice. I will have about $2500 in my front and rear axles including lockers, gears, disks on all 4 corners, and 4340 front shafts. Thats about the same it would cost to build 1 front D60. Given the choice between a built 9" and a built shaved FF14B I would take the FF14B everytime. It looks like you have a well build capable rig and Im not trying to talk down about your rig at all. All I am trying to say is I do have reasons for my build that I have done my homework on before starting my build. I believe I have the absolute BEST axle combination vs. price for my build and what Im building the truck to do. Down the road I can make changes if necessary but Im gonna have one hell of a platform when Im done and one very capable rock crawler.

oh and with 5.38's and a stock tcase your runnin like 70-80:1 so no wonder why your not breakin stuff out back yet.

i can push my box foward a bit. hydro is in the works but its not going to be there when i finish the "first stage" of my build. and yes im linkin the front. doing a cage arm setup with 6.5" XJ coils. once again i will say a D60 is TWICE as expensive to build, if not more. im pretty confident with my D44 holding up. and seriously your gonna say a STOCK D60 shaft is stronger than a chromoly D44 shaft? i dont think so. maybe with 35 spline outers it might compare at best BUT the price of those, not to mention the $250 for 35 spline lockouts, makes the D60 even more expensive to build. again, my FF14B will not be much heavier than a 9" and a boatload stronger. as far as width it will be about the same as the front. i ask again do you have tcase gears or duals in your rig? im assuming not. i see you have 5.38's and yes i know all axles require gears. i was askin if you were runnin tcase gears or duals. im also gonna run 5.38's but im runnin tcase gears and then duals in the future. a full floating axle is so important on so many levels which i have already listed. i cannot believe you are driving your rig knowing that you have a twisted STOCK shaft. seriously how much could a shaft be at a JY, $50??? you have been very very lucky runnin a busted shaft for so long. also i see your running a hi9. you know reverse cut gears in the rear are much more weaker since they run on the coast side. also what spline shafts you runnin out back. seriously i would replace that shaft before you know longer have rear wheel drive on a trail and trust me it will fail at the worst possible time. and yes it is going to break. we can keep debating this but point blank a D44 chromoly shaft is stronger than a d60 stock shaft. a FF14B is much stronger than a 9". the 14B housing is stronger as well as it being a full floating axle. say what you will but i can have numbers prove my point if need be. you want shaft diameter? tensile strength? shock load? sheering point? i can give you numbers if you like to further prove my point.

oh and the 14B will not be a ditch digger. the amount of sprung weight over it will be minimal. im ripping out the carpet and back seat. wont have a spare tire back there or the tire carrier......all that will be on the trailer. thinkin about choppin the top behind the back doors. i got a buddys with 60 and FF14B rears and they are unstoppable!!!!! also im extending my wheel base a bit. moving the axles out a few inches in each direction. once again trimming/cutting is not an issue. i wont know how much im moving my front axle foward and rear axle back until i get to that point but it will be in my build thread and BTW my pathy is going to be a trailer queen. i have the 93 with a rear locker and 34's to play around with on the "easy" trails.

its not about the motor man its about the torque. when i have a final ratio of something like 180:1 and IMO I WILL break 9" shafts. im not going to chance it because i can build a 14B for cheaper or the same price as a 9". also no worry about twisting a tube or bending the housing. a 14B is bulletproof for my application. you said your twisting shafts.....what gearing you running? you got duals or even tcase gears or are you all stock there? my 14B shaven with disks will not be much heavier than a 9" AND i WILL have more ground clearance than a 9"......ive already done the math/measurements. you have twisted shafts as you said......try to twist a 14B shaft. you break a shaft and your tire falls off......that would suck. a full floating axle is a far superior axle, bar none!! i would live to find an earlier Eaton 3rd member "14B" but the parts arent readily available and its just not a smart option being how common 14B are. where the hell can you get a BUILT D60 for a grand? please please give up your source. the housing will be $400-$600, locker $400+, R&P + install kit $300, not to mention disk break conversion, 35 spline conversion, etc. i still wouldnt trust a D60 with stock front axle shafts so add another $800 for chromos and u-joints. if you can get me a BUILT D60 with chromos for $1000 ill but it from you RIGHT NOW!!!!! $hit ill even pay $1500 for a locked(detroit, not lunchbox or spool) D60 with chromo shafts, NEW. a BUILT D60 will run about $3000. im running the "rare" 3/4 ton front D44HP. it has 3" tubes(like a 60) and extra webbing on the housing. it is far superior to any other D44 housing ever made. only in production for 1.5 years. i plan on running Maxxis Creepy Crawlers......38X12.5's. they are true 38's and i think they are even slightly bigger. maybe a 9" would handle 38's with just gears and no tcase gears or duals for a bit but it wont last. but when you start running a high ratio that axle is useless. yea it will last a bit but point blank it wont hold up. im building my truck to be bullet proof. i cannot afford a D60 now so my D44 will do the job. also i like rock crawling......hardcore $hit. big huge rocks with lots of drops and holes. thats my cup of tea. give me your 9" on one of my trails and i guarantee ill break a shaft. and i do know how to drive.....you wanna see some vids of me rock crawlin my IFS pathy? i was doing things on 34's with open front/LSD rear that truggy yotas locked/locked on 36-38's couldnt get over. and as i siad i have pics and vids to prove it.

bent/stuck/sticking valve maybe? its definately a top end knock. so the sound comes and goes?

oh yea man i know about low. my goal is only 24" from the frame to ground with 38's. full width will stabilize it quite nicely. fender trimming is a non issue as well as cutting out the rear tubs. im gonna chop top it one day. the XJ 6.5" lift coils are what im gonna run front and rear. the RE's have a good spring rate(like 160in/lbs) and flex great. coil overs one day but my pocket isnt that deep. havent done anymore work on it recently cause of work. i do air conditioning service work for a living so the beginning of the hot season is stupid busy. still shooting for being done in july. going up there in a couple weeks to get the engine running and put the front axle under it.

i will break stock 9" shafts. i wont break stock 14B shafts and there is no need to look into chromoly shafts for it. the full floating part is very important and much stronger. the extra pinion support is very important. also if i do manage to break a monster 14B shaft my tire wont fall off and i can pick one up from a junk yard on the cheap. converting it to disks costed me less than $200. detroit locker is $350 which is much cheaper than a 9". also the locker goes inside the carrier vs replacing the carrier. im shaving the 14B including trimming the ring gear and i will actually have more clearance than a 9". im taking about 2.5" off the bottom. all in all ill be spending about $700 to build a rear that will be nearly impossible to break. also im gonna have 8 lug front so the rear does match. also im runnin hummer beadlocks recentered so i need 8 lug. maybe a 9" can handle 500HP but its the shock load you gotta worry about. you start hoppin 38's on an uphill trail and you will snap a 9" shaft like a twig. was considering runnin a semi floating 14B to stick with the stock 6 lug pattern but it is much weaker. the skinny.......the 14B is A LOT stronger than the 9" and much cheaper to build. im so confident with the 14B shafts i dont think ill carry a spare with me. im thinkin a D60 up front is in my future. im gonna see if 44 chromo shafts will handle my right foot and 38's. if i break shafts than im gonna swap in a D60 when i go to coil-overs.

steevo, the front h233b will be $300 with gears or just for the housing? i will be running a HPD44 Heavy Duty(out of a 77.5-79 F250 and it has 3" tubes on it) and im keeping it full width. also going with a FF14B out back. im linking the front and rear. my setup is going to be pretty difficult to build but i do have my specs saved on my link calculator. im just long arming the rear for now but ill be double triangulating it in a year or so. front will be a cage arm setup. coilovers eventually. they do make chromoly shafts for my Ford axle. guy on pirate is offering them as well as another company. the concept h233b is a great idea IF prices to build the axle come down. i would run it in a heartbeat if gears and lockers werent rediculously expensive. i have built my D44 for less than $800 with NEW detroit locker and 5.38's. with chromoly shafts and u-joints the bill will be about $1500 for the entire setup. parts are much more readily accessable for the D44 and a hell of a lot cheaper.

and that is the reason for aftermarket UCA's, BJ spacers, and a CL. my CV's would be ok if i wheeled with any sense. i tend to break 1 about every trip or 2. the 80+ pounds of tire/wheel on each corner and the fact that i wheel the piss outta my rig kills the CV's(i tend to get the front airbourne a lot). my hoohaa CL and my TRE's are still in great shape after 1.5 years of wheelin it with those tires/rims. im confident if i was running radial 33's, aluminum rims and i cared about body damage my CV's would last a good while. also to help the CV's last longer Manual hubs shoud be installed. i know the auto hubs are free running but i have heard of them staying locked in 2wd.

a Body lift CHANGES the COG whereas a SL RAISES the COG and thats why i dont like them. changing an engineered COG is by far worse than just raising it which keeps the engineers design true and correct. not to mention body roll is much worse with a BL versus a SL.

i ran TRUE 34's with no BL and about 1" of fender trimming. heres my old setup: Rough Country UCA's 1/2" BJ spacers S.A.W tbars cranked HOOHAA CL(www.grassroots4x4.com) Calmini IAB REAR: Jeep Grand Cherokee coils with 1" coil spacer in them. all sway bars removed stock "lego" rims 34X10.5X15 LTB's(TRUE 34" tall tire as well while a 33" BFG is only 32.6" tall) my setup only rubbed my rear passenger frame rail. this could have been corrected with a panhard bar dropdown bracket to relocate the rear axle to its original position. i never dropped my panhard bar. my rear axle was about 1.5" to the drivers side. i had absolutely no fender rub even on full stuff. PICS: before trimming: after trimming: after sealing up the rear fenders and the hurculiner: proof that it stuffed and flexed its ass off: more pics of the hurculiner and fender trimming here: http://s145.photobucket.com/albums/r207/gm...pics/?start=all YOU DO NOT NEED A BL TO RUN 33's OR EVEN 34's!!!!!!! most people say its "required" or as it goes on this board 3+3=33's. a BL will not necessarily make things easier but if your not afraid of a little trimming then all you need is the above. with the setup i ran i could have run 35's with a small BL. BL are a PITA anything more than 1.5". you will need to mess with the shifters, intake, steering, hoses, etc. much easier to bust out a sawzall and go to town!!!!!

auto or manual tranny? im thinkin its an auto. is the battery light the only dash light on?

for you SASed folks......what are your thoughts for coils? im thinkin XJ 6.5" coils to stuff 37's. im aiming for the lowest possible COG with the best possible flex. oh ya coils on all 4 corners. thinkin about bronco coils from bronco graveyard but i think they will be too stiff. DISCUSS!!!!! oh ya wrenchin the 6th of june and hopefully have my axles mocked up my the end of the day

engine is in!!! just need to plug it up and it will run. went ahead and cut out the rad. support member to make the install easier. ill brace it later. going to clean up the frame and weld on all my link hangers next weekend hopefully. also cleaning up the axles and welding on my coil buckets and link mounts on the axles. im trying to have my axles under it within the next couple weeks. just picked up my nissan to ford brake lines. im trying to figure out if i want to use 4.5" XJ coils or 6" XJ coils on the corners. i abandoned the bronco coils cause i think they will be too stiff and not flex as much as i want it to. i need to get my axles under it and then take some measurements. my goal is to run 37"-38" tires. im thinkin the 6" XJ coils is what i need.

mine are known as The Pathmaker and The Pathmaker 2. some call it the trashfinder or the failfinder but most people who call it that are jeepers and they are just mad that they bought a POS and not a pathfinder.........its great when my IFS and 34's go more places that a SFA jeep on 36's with lockers!!!!

ya i really could care less about body damage. its the drive train i worry about. driving home 3H from the trail with a broken window is kinda noisy though but still quieter than my tires. gonna patch the window with some sheet metal this weekend and spray bomb it black.....should look like a really tinted window

oh yea its got a good amount of body damage and missing paint. i broke out the rear passenger window last weekend on a tree. the passenger mirror is held on by duct tape and the front door handles have been removed on accident......... rear bumper has some dings and dents. but it still looks good, kinda

well i guess ill update this now. put my 34's on and the PML. so it has a 1.5" BL and about a 4" PML with coil spacers in the rear and 1/2" balljoint spacers up front. HOOHAA CL and calmini IAB. Warn premium hubs. some wheelin last december in the pocono's of PA: poser shot on my buddys 37" iroc installing my new(to me) custom made winch bumper with milemarker 8K winch the bumper and winch is Richards from NC(frontier2k1 on other boards) old bumper that was on his sased pathy. its beef as hell. got to use the winch a couple times last weekend as well as beat it hard on some rocks......didnt phase it!! just got some synthetic rope and aluminum fairlead that will be installed this weekend. so thats how she sits now. i may SAS it the end of the year with leafs and waggy axles and 35's.....nothin too crazy since its my DD.

pile of unneeded junk removing crap/disconnecting wires to remove motor motor/trans out!!!! as she sits now pile of new parts so motor, tranny, IFS is out. gotta cut some more stuff off the front of the frame. very productive day fo sho!!!! doing the build at my buddys garage in Richmond. hes got a 40X60 garage in his back yard with a car lift(that we need to wire). should be done sometime in June. ill post up some progress pics as the build continues. this is my first SAS so it will be a learning experience.

aquired parts over the past couple months including a NIB detroit for the front for $360 off Pirate. got 5.38 gears on the way as well as a riddler Diff cover for the D44. was going to convert the front to 6 on 5.5 but abandoned that route. going with 8 on 6.5 to match the 14B my front suspension will be cage arms with 2" .25" wall DOM using QA1 joints. going with progressive bronco lift coils from bronco graveyard. moving the axle foward 2"-4". http://qa1.thomasnet.com/viewitems/all-cat...1&forward=1 steering will be inverted T with 1.25" .25 wall DOM with 7/8" GM one ton TRE's rear suspension will be a longarmed version of my stock 4 link+panhard. going with 6.5" XJ front lift coils for the rear. pushing the axle back about 4". going with either a spool or detroit for the rear or i may just weld it. the end of the year im gonna redo my rear suspension to a double triangulated setup. will be running 36-39" tires. i want some creepy crawlers but they are EXPENSIVE. probably go with some TSL's or LTB's first wrenchin weekend gettin started.....it was early!! IFS GONE!!!!!

started with this about 2 years ago. sittin on some 31" mud kings PML and fender flares/step bars removed January 08 trimmed fenders, hurculined the body, and some 34" LTB's blew the motor last june because i came down hard on a rock at Rausch Creek and blew my rear main. let the oil run too low and spun the front crank bearing. sat for a couple months before i decided to SAS it. got 2 donor pathys one for the motor and one for a new rebuilt manual tranny to swap in(was an auto tranny) picked up a D44HP Heavy duty out of a 77.5 F250 last december. got a FF14B for the rear(no pics but everyone knows what that pig looks like) gonna shave the 14B down about 2.5" including shaving the ring gear.

well i have been off the board for some time but im back now and figure id reintroduce myself. names Rich. had a 92 pathy that i blew the motor on. almost parted it out but glad i didnt. now it is under the knife getting a HPD44 HD out of a 77.5 F250 and a FF14B rear(see build section for specs) now i have a 95 pathy on 34's. it has a PML and a 1.5" BL, custom winch bumper with a milemarker 8K winch and synthetic rope that will be installed this weekend. it wheels its ass off. just broke out the passenger back window on a tree last weekend......will be replaced with sheet metal. anywho ill get some pics up the next couple days.

HELL YEA!!!! i had 34's on my white pathy with no body lift on stock lego rims. just trimmed about 2" of fender. no rubbing issues at all. im gonna leave this BL on b/c i dont feel like taking it off and i can deal with 1.5". i personally would never buy or install a BL on any of my rigs. the bull bar is tack welded on the bumper and frame(cheap and ugly)......but its coming off this weekend and im putting my MANIK guard on that bolts to the frame with 4 bolts. ill get some better pics of the fenders this weekend.