RainGoat
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Posts posted by RainGoat
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Final Engine: JDM Core with '02 USDM Peripherals & Electrical
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starbai, I stopped by the shop on my way home from work this morning and had a pretty good talk with the mechanic. Unfortunately, I didn't have your specific questions to ask him at the time. Without prompting, he did say he had read the summary I had given him regarding the different engine preferences. He noted that he couldn't speak much to the first JDM engine other than the aluminum valve covers as he stopped working on it once he saw the rust. He is essentially using the best of the parts from my engine & the JDM as well as the manifold he still has from the 1st JDM. He noted the plastic vs aluminum valve covers but otherwise hasn't seen any real variances. Because the condition of my parts are so good he says he is primarily either using new parts or the parts from my engine and he hasn't had any problem with the switch over. I need to get some sleep now but I'll post my pictures from this am. This afternoon I'll try and swing by the shop & specifically ask your questions if I can.
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.....I joined the R50 Facebook page, and downloaded the SFD Word document......
Where might I ask, is that document? I can't seem to find it! Thanks!
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Here's my original engine! TowndawgR50 & I both think that it probably was fine and possibly it was only the loose #4 power valve sitting on top of the #6 power valve that was making the tapping from that location but we'll never know. No evidence of any of the missing screws were found and the machine shop thought my heads were fine. The shop was worried the screws were in the short block or that they would just put it all back together and the noise would still be there so they wouldn't do it since the labor is so immense. I mean everything from my radiator to my engine to my tranny to my drive shaft were all out and on the floor of the garage. I just wish they had opened the manifold first & fixed the Power Valve screws to see if the noise went away. Retrospectively, I suppose I could have done it myself. I've definitely learned alot in this misadventure. I'm sure as H3!! not going anywhere anytime soon now that I've invested all this time, money and heartache into my baby.
Incidently, I'm keeping my original engine. TowndawgR50 & I figure it can be a good learning tool, a possible scavenge source for parts in the future and maybe I'll even rebuild it and have it as a spare. My Wife is Going To Love It in our 2 car garage (not even the truck gets to park in the garage anymore but I'll have this big a$$ paperweight).
ALSO, I OWE a HUGE DEBT to TowndawgR50 for fielding my emails, texts and calls throughout this ordeal. He helped me with the inner engine discussions with the shop and reassured me I wasn't going insane when the answers I got back didn't always seem to make sense to me (it was very reassuring to have him agree that I was right to be confused with the answer I was getting). I'd say he experienced a little trauma from this as well. My deepest gratitude to you TowndawgR50 and of course, to the NPORA forum family as well!
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JDM Engine #2
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Starbai, Sorry for the delay, I've been working alot of nights and it's been really taking it out on me during the day. Add the stress of this and the fact that I've got 2 small kids and it's been both physically & emotionally exhausting. MicahFelker is in town & prompted me by text tonight to make sure I got to you. My apologies.
Apparently, the mechanic had been about as thrilled as I was with the oil pan. He said the varnish didn't worry him but it made him examine the engine extra closely. Ultimately he found some rust in the cylinder & at that point, his confidence in the engine was ruined. After doing a fair amount of stripping they sent the whole thing back but were able to have another arrive that evening. I haven't heard the back story on this 2nd engine but was vaguely told JDM, 50K. Since that's what I heard about the last one, I'm a little dubious about the accountability for miles, etc. on these engines, especially the JDMs.
Anyway, the oil pan & the rest looked a fair amount better to him and he was comfortable installing it. He took off the timing chain cover to have a look and did notice a little wear in the guides, which he showed me, so he had already gone ahead with the replacement. They said that was the decision we had made that morning, which is actually the opposite of the decision we had made, however, it looks like it was the right call for this engine so I'll just eat it and be glad they did it.
I gave the mechanic a double sided, double spaced, big font, easy to read, summary of the important topics we discussed and suggested it might be usefull though I would defer to his judgement. I also told him there were others like me who were looking at having this done right now & they would be very interested in his findings due to these compatability concerns. He nodded and seemed to say something affirmative but I think he just does that with everything.
When this all started, I gave them a cleaned up, succint version of the wonderful Power Valve Repair write up but I don't think they looked at it, despite my suggesting it might be the cause of all of our problems. I say this in part because they all seemed a littel surprised at the power valve findings later when that's what I had lead with. Consequently, I'm not too certain we're going to get usefull information out of him. There also seem to be notable communication issues between the front office and the mechanic as well.
All that said, the mechanic did put a halt to the first used engine's install and the manager went to work finding another one without questioning the mechanic's decision. I think I have a good mechanic who takes pride in his worksmanship but I suspect he would prefer to be left alone. He told me that his plan was to use my original engine's equipment for essentially everything except the engine itself as he knew it had run fine and looked to be in pretty good condition. We are changing out all the accessable seals and even the variable timing solenoids to be sure everything is as new & reliable as possible. I will definitely ask but I'm not sure I'm going to get more comment than the fact that he just changed out all the electrical stuff. We'll see, I really will try. Both myself & the shop found these engine version variances when looking at lifters. The part numbers I had acquired locally ultimately seemed to be for the up to 2001.5 engine. My production date is 2/23/02.
I think the truck will be done Friday but I work until 7pm. Consequently, I think it will likely be Monday before I'll be able to go in, retrieve it, hear what story I can and pay the excruciating fee to have my truck functionally just like it was back at Thanksgiving. All VERY PAINFUL but at least it should be reliable from here on out. (Of course, I would have told you that on Thanksgiving). I'll put a 2nd post with the 2nd JDM Engine Pics in it.
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My brief understanding is that this 1st engine is going back. Apparently they have another, I guess Ill have to wait on its back story. I told the mechanic there were several other guys in my situation who would be interested in his findings & he seemed good with that. Consequently, I hope to have something to report back later today or tomorrow. As an FYI, no core on these engines so Im keeping my original.
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Well, the saga continues....I dropped by the shop with a summary of everybodys findings to find that the mechanic had stripped the JDM down & just come in to ask the shop manager for a different engine. They were to busy to elaborate & said wed reconvene this afternoon but the manager was already on the phone inquiring after an 02 Pathfinder engine because the mechanic said he had some concerns with the current one. Maybe it had to do with the issues youve brought up. Ill keep you posted!
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Honestly, What I've learned from my mess is that sometimes it's better to not mess with things if they're doing okay. I get if it had high mileage...but since it does not. I think its worse to open it up if unnecessary.
On the other hand, it seems like they're going to be cracking that timing cover off anyway. I don't see how they're going to use that motor without ultimately taking that timing chain off to swap out the sprockets anyway... so what it boils down to is what the real cost of chain replacement? It shouldn't be anything more than parts beacuse you're already going to be paying to swap all that stuff out of that motor of yours. In this case, might as well put a shiney new chain on it. What I will say though is dont mess around, replace the chains, guides, tensioners and water pump with OEM. Dont do what I did and go with ebay for some of this stuff... you'll regret the money and time u've put into all this just to skimp on the parts if you dont.
Well, TowndawgR50 had offered to help me with this but it was just too big of project to as someone else to help with and neither of us have a protected space where the truck could sit for the weeks it would have taken us (and it rains nearly constantly here in the winter). The shop insists on OEM in order to warranty it, the trick was using Courtesy Nissan to drive their parts prices down somewhat. Labor here is $110/* so that hurts. Adding the chain to this swap is $1,200, going back to do it later is $1,800. Definitely cost effective to do it now but I would not have expected to need it in my engine at all if I hadn't had a failure and I'lll probably not top this new engine out past 100K. I've got to make my mind up this morning but I'm leaning towards no - as you said, maybe they'll have to get in there anyway in which case I might reconsider.
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Your story has me nervous, I had figured that after so many miles if the screws were going to come out, they would have already done it. I guess not, and now I'll have to do this job this summer now too.
Honestly, I would do it now. I am sure my truck has swallowed 4 of those screws in the past without incident and it's only this last one that caused some damage. But it only take one. I can't help but think that if I had caught it before I might not have had this problem at all. (admittedly I would have been freaking out about where those others screw were but I might have been able to limit it 2-3 hours work and minimal cost to simply fix the power valve screws & just keep on driving it. My truck has lived a fairly easy life and it's seen Mobile 1 througout it's whole life. I have every reason to believe that internally it was "younger" than it should have been and would have lasted me 200K without problem. All of this has made me sick! It's such a waste of money, time, anxiety, etc. not too mention an engine that was otherwise in excellent shape.
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drewp29, Over on starbai's thread, hawairish found this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/253387604846
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Thanks everybody. I'm leaving work now and will stop by the shop and review what I've learned from you. It is a JDM engine. The mechanic seems competent and he's at least interested in the work (as opposed to finding it a pain). The mechanic intends to switch out all the electrical gear from my old engine, he's quoting about 4 hours of work. He seems comfortable with the job and he was the only one the shop manager thought could take it on. The shop management has been pretty clear but it's been a lot of back and forth. They definitely won't be thrilled to have me coming in last minute with these concerns from the forums but it sounds like it's potentially worthwhile. I wish they had listend to me more in the beginning. It's definitely not a consumers market here and unfortunately, I'm just lucky to have a place that will do it. Quite honestly, I'm pretty sure the management regrets taking it on. They're pretty used to fat wallets and no questions.
Even though they couldn't find the screws, they essentially looked everywhere. They had questions about them being in the short block and they were afraid that, even if they weren't, they might reassemble the engine and find the noise was still present. I wonder if the noise wasn't that powervalve #4 coming loose. It was a tapping form the back of the block on the driver's side that was relatively light but distinct & rev dependent. Part of me wonders if just fixing the powervalves would have made everything go away and save me the cost of essentially the whole truck.
I'm aghast at the cost but since the rest of the truck is in excellent shape with no rust and I know it's history from day it's cheaper and more reliable to keep it than to get a new one or something else. Also, and I mean this sincerely, I really treasure the NPORA community online and my friendly and generous locals like Kyle (ferrariowner123) and TowndawgR50. In fact, TowndawgR50 has been involved almost daily for the past couple weeks helping keep my sanity as the shop tried to test it. When it first happened, I called him from the side of the road as I was near his house. He was in California for Thanksgiving but helped walk me through things and brought up the power valve screw issue. I REALLY think we need to find a way to put that out there front & center. I've been on the forums fairly heavily since May and somehow hadn't run across it.
Sorry if this has been a threadjack, though it seemed relevant, and thanks for everybody's help.
Another quick question, would you do the timing chain on this 50K JDM motor. It adds ~$1,200 to the job ($440 labor(=4 hours here) + >$760 parts (and that was after I talked them down using Courtesy Nissan's pricing). I doubt I'll put another 50K on this truck in the next 10 years but I would like it to last about a decade and I've been puttin on about 5K/yr for the last couple years once it was no longer my daily driver again.
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Here's what my baby did all last week, and probably most of this week too...
Soooo SAD !!!!
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Sorry to hear about you missing that 34K engine. I'm going through something similar myself thanks to NIssan and it's loose Power Valve Screws. See my postings on http://www.nissanpathfinders.net/forum/topic/43931-vq35de-engine-differences/?p=796139
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To give you some idea of the diffrences..
My 2002@106K
Import@50K
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OMG this is killing me!!! The day after Thanksgiving we went out to get a Christmas tree and I heard a tapping I'd never heard before. No performance problems, other noise or smoke. I pulled it over & had it towed to a shop. They were sure it was lifters and, after wresting with differences between early '01 and late '01/'02s we finally decided to do the heads. I told them I was worried about the Power Valves (I just learned of them from TowndawgR50 when I called him from the side of the road with the noise). They more or less considered this an afterthought and pushed for me to get a used engine. However, when we opened it up heres what we saw:
That's 5 screws gone & the #4 butterfly valve in the #6 position. The rest of my engine appeared pristine but they couldn't find the screws anywhere & essentially refused to put it back together with any sort of guarantee. Again they pushed for a used engine but could only produce one with 118K on it. This pissed me off as I knew my engine was otherwise in excellent shape (I've had it it's whole life). After much back and forth over parts cost (Thank you Courtesy Nissan for providing me leverage) they suddenly found an import with 50K on it. It arrived yesterday and goes in today. Now I read all of this & I'm worried if it's even the right engine! Oh boy!
Here are the shots of my "new" engine. They sure as H#!! better have the right engine.
Honestly, this whole Power Valve thing has really shaken my faith in Japanese reliability. I have to eat sooo much crow. I'm going to end up spending more than it would cost to buy my Pathfinder just to end up where I started. It's really disheartening! -
Micah, Is it just the OME HD spring up front or do you have a spacer as well?
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Micah
That looks bad ass. When you get a chance can you send us measurements comparing front and rear. Right now my front is sagging really bad and I have 2" of rake from back to front. Yours looks good, just wondering the difference.
Looks Great Micah! We'll need your tire sizes too!
Did Kyle help you with it, your picture kind of looks like his place?
If so, I would have loved to come by and help and I imagine TowndawgR50 would have been game as well.
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Looking at that rear sag with a minimal load of camp gear for 2 for a week, I don't think the Airlift 100s were in yet. I now remember I did them at the same time I put on the auxillary lights, front & rear. I'm sure this trip was part of how I determined I needed them. Also, where's my Hi-Lift Jack? Guess I didn't have that yet either as it typically mounted on the roof rack (though I hate it up there as I'm always afraid I might slip and break my windows getting it down.
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My engine appears to have suffered a PowerValve Screw failure. While I've been contemplating it's repair I've been a little nostalgic. I thought you guys might appreciate some of the photos from it's history. I think I'll start with one of my favorite trips ever. I first visited Canyonlands about '93-94 and rented a Jeep for a one day excursion to the White Rim Trail. It was fantastic! I always wanted to return and finally did so a decade later, circa '2003-4 in my 1-2 year old Path. Here are some of the photos I could find of the truck. It was driving up Taylor Canyon that I learned just how well the largely stock setup (really only Airlift 100's) could handle sand.
[Feel free to let me know if it's too much]
The night before, somewhere off Hell Roaring Rim Rd or BLM 129
White Rim Trail
Labyrinth Campground Site B-looking toward Islands in the Sky & Taylor Cyn
Labyrinth Campground Site B-looking toward the Green River
White Rim-that's 1000' down back there & 100' up to Islands in the Sky
Alot of it looked like this from the driver's seat
Side trip to Lathrop Cyn
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It goes in the trailer hitch. Made by HitchGate I believe.
Fair warning, they dont quite fit the stock hitch. I tried it with a Wilco Solo hitchgate & the plate at the end of the receiver makes it about 1/4-1/2 too shallow. I would have had to cut that plate off to get it to fit properly. I believe GSpeed151 told me he put a small diameter screw through the elliptical opening you get & mainly relies on the wedge lock to hold it in place. Probably fine but I dont think I would try using the receiver repeater on the hit gate to tow or recover.
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Yeah, that does make a big difference. 2.5 will look nice! Since I dont have your resources, Ill probably have to live with a little rake & hope it evens out when loaded. It will be interesting to see how yours plays out.
Thanks for the part #s!
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Michael can you post the part numbers on that Moog stuff? I’ll be interested to hear what others say about the 2.5” lift (greater than 2” typically not recommended due to CV angle).
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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RainGoat- do you still have those links? Installed them yet? I'm actually in desperate need of adjustable links now, as I've just installed a 6" lift, and the driveshaft angle is way too steep, causing bad driveline vibration. I'm probably going to have to install a double-cardan (CV) driveshaft, but the pinion angle is still way off. If you haven't installed them and are willing to sell them, let me know.
I've been stalled out in my rebuild due to a lifter problem but I am planning on using them when I lift this spring. Sorry about that. TowndawgR50, hawairish, you, etc. have me now considering a SFD but I'm still not sure.
Actually, the panhard is in KC as I couldn't pack it into my luggage. I spent some quality time with the TSA when I had the lowers in a checked bag & the uppers in my carry-on as I flew out of Salt Lake (my Mom had picked them up from Derrick (MichiganAve) in CO Springs and brought them when we hiked SW Utah in September).
As an FYI, I just wanted to say that really I appreciate your shutterfly page. At some point, I intend to mount my MV-50 in the engine compartment like you & stioc have done. I was curious, did you plumb your sliders to be air reservoirs? I know that was an option in aftermarket parts back in 2002ish, of course they called them rock rails in those days (you and I are about the same age). Also, I drove my Brother In Laws 2nd Gen Sequoia (2012) on part of the Mojave Rd & in Owen's Valley this September so I must say Kudos to you on turning your 1st Gen into an offroader-those are pretty good sized trucks, the 2nd Gens in particular. I felt like I was driving a small house but overall was fairly impressed with how it handled itself.
VQ35DE Engine Differences?
in 96-2004 R50 Pathfinders
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starbai, I believe each engine still has it's original oil pan. This thread has pictures of the inside of each oil pan. A post on 1/30 has my original '02 pan compared with the JDM#1 engine and the JDM#2 oil pan is above. At one point all 3 were lined up and I didn't notice any differences except for cleanliness (albeit I wasn't examining them under a microscope for differences).