PsychoPath Posted July 10, 2005 Share Posted July 10, 2005 My 96 has a five speed. For a while now it's been intermitently making a high-pitched whine when I depress the clutch pedal. Usually this only occurs when it is cold. Once I spin it through a few gear shifts it stops. I am told this is the pilot bearing. Upon seaching the forums I found someone call it a throwout bearing problem. What's the difference? While we're at it: Has anyone dropped the tranny on one of these? Done this actualy project? I'm big on DIY but I'd like to know what I'd be getting into. To be honest, the thing is for sale, so I might do better to find a sucker and forget about it. Thanks for any input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slick Posted July 10, 2005 Share Posted July 10, 2005 I did the T/O bearing when I installed my new clutch and pulled my motor. Not as big a deal as I originally freaked out about. It is a pretty straightforward job but if you are just dropping your tranny..it could be a bit more of a PITA for you than it was for me pulling the motor at the same time... Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PsychoPath Posted July 10, 2005 Author Share Posted July 10, 2005 Hmmm... thanks, Slick. I've talked to a couple of guys I know and basically got the same feedback... I'm out of town on business so I have about a week and a half to figure out what I want to do... there's is no way I'm dropping 6 or 700 bucks on it right before I try to sell, though, and it sounds like that's what it would run me in a garage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slick Posted July 10, 2005 Share Posted July 10, 2005 i paid $178 for my new clutch that included the t/o bearing. it too me (a chick at that!) under 1 hour to do the clutch.... (ok..so I've done clutches b 4..and my Pathy was, for once, agreeable..and I had the motor out...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedPath88 Posted July 11, 2005 Share Posted July 11, 2005 I don't actually know just how different the job is on an R50, but my '88 WD21 was a PITA. My clutch failed (read: Broke, not worn out) and I replaced it myself. New clutch, pressure plate and t/o bearing. Learn from my experience, do it on a concrete floor, like a garage/driveway... not in the dirt/sand with a tarp thrown down like I did. Also rent/buy a transmission jack or tranny jack attachment for a floor jack. This will make life much easier than doing it with a crappy floor jack, a bottle jack, a bunch of wood blocks and as much strength as I could muster! Bottom line... it's a job, but if you do the extras (like acquire tools and location) suitable for the job, it's not that bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted July 11, 2005 Share Posted July 11, 2005 ^^What he said X10... B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slick Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 Yes.. I had no need for a tranny jack as I had taken the motor out.. the only PITA is getting the actual T/O bearing out of the little casing... that took some coaxing.. and remember to get the clutch fork back in exactly as you too it out... else you will be doing a lot of this :furious: after putting it all back together! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northgapathy Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 i've pulled a tranny on an r50 but it was an automatic, i've also pulled the tranny on my 93 pathy and it was a manual, its not a hard job, just take your time and don't lose your patience, a little tip, when it comes time to take out the top bellhousing bolts jack up the front of the motor, that will give you more room to get to those bolts which are on the very top of the tranny.....Good Luck -dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PsychoPath Posted July 15, 2005 Author Share Posted July 15, 2005 This is all great information, and I really appreciate it. I'm away on business for the next week, so I have a little time to decide what to do about it. I'm leaning towards fixing it though, now. I have a pretty decent garage so maybe it isn't such a huge deal. Anyways, I'll post when I figure it out. Thanks, again, All. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slick Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 it's just a LOT of prep work before getting to the actual problem. As above, take yer time, and all will be good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mws Posted July 19, 2005 Share Posted July 19, 2005 The toughest part is usually getting the transmission lined up and back on after doing the clutch. I bought a transmission jack at Harbor Freight. I am very skeptical of most of their child slave labor built offshore pot metal junk, but this scissor style wheeled transmission jack looked pretty well designed and built. All sheet and bar steel, no castings. This is the one you crank up and down with a 1/2" drive ratchet. I have used it on 4 transmission pull jobs to date, and I can honestly say this is a must have if you chose to do your own. It's well under $100 (goes on 1/2 price sale pretty regularly, and will make the job WAY easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mws Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 I am told this is the pilot bearing. Upon seaching the forums I found someone call it a throwout bearing problem. What's the difference? Pilot bearing is a female bearing in the center of the flywheel. The forward end of the transmission shaft fits into this. The throwout (or release) bearing is the collar that the fork pushes against to release the clutch. I always replace both when I work on a clutch. They're not that expensive, and who wants to go back in within the next 50K miles to do the other??? Odd thing - we just converted my nephew's '93 VW Eurovan from an automatic to a manual. After hours scouring the manual and a couple calls to VW parts department and mechanics, I was finally convinced that the Audi designed 5 cylinder doesn't have a pilot bearing! Has anyone ever seen this? Seems whacky to not precisely support and align the end of the trans shaft.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pezzy Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 Not sure if the same applies to the R50, but I know Nissan lists a clutch job @ 8.9 hours on the Xterra (5spd), I can only assume it's similar... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 The WD21s have a pilot bushing not bearing... I'm not sure about the R50... It can be a PITA to get out without the right tools though as it is an interference fit, flush with the face and in a blind hole... I bought a new one when I did my clutch. I measured the ID of the old one without removing it and it was precisely the same as the new one so I said screw it and left it in... Definitely buy or borrow a tranny jack !! I rented one and used it for 2 days; cost the same as buying the HF mws mentioned... I couldn't get the tranny lined up by myself when reinstalling and needed a buddy to help, maybe you'll have better luck... B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slick Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 It took 2 of us to man (and woman) handle my 5 spd tranny back into place..but she went with not too much hassle...wiggle here..jiggle there...few cuss words.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mws Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 (edited) Who wants to know the secret to removing pilot bearings? Who? Who? OK - here it is: - Pack some grease into the bearing - fill up any cavity behind the bearing and about half way to the surface of the bearing. - Find or make something that fits snugly within the pilot bearing. Reversed socket with an extension in it to seal the hole, old piece of transmission shaft, wooden dowel, plastic rod turned to the right diameter, whatever. - Slide the something into the bearing, and give it a few good raps with a hammer. The something will press into the the grease and pressurize it. Some neat physics occurs, and the grease will push the bearing out! Of course, if the something is too small, you just made a mess.... Physics is your friend.... Edited July 20, 2005 by mws Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 LOL, I forgot about that one... Thanks mws, but its a bushing, darn it !! B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mws Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 well... technically, a bushing IS a bearing... It's not a ROLLER bearing, but it is still a bearing. Bearing is the generic term, bushing is a more specific sub set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mws Posted July 25, 2005 Share Posted July 25, 2005 The jack is on sale at Harbour Freight again. $49.95. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 Yes, yes, yes... It is technically a bearing as it is a "load 'bearing' surface". pssd Sheesh bro, I was just being precise... The real reason I pointed that out is when I was ordering parts, the manual talked about bushings and the web site listed it as a bearing which made me wonder if it was the right part.... It wasted some of my time to figure the imprecise nomenclature out. Just wanted to save someone else the confusion. B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snosnk Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 R50's have a pilot bushing. I tried the grease trick. Didnt work. I ended up using a 3/4" tap. Just twisted it in and wiggled the bushing back out. Then used a socket and peen hammer to tap the new one in. If you decide to attempt this yourself, watch out for the crank angle sensor. Its in the bell housing at about 11:00 (looking at it from the rear). Its pretty easy to destroy while removing the transmission. You can get it out with a 10mm from underneath. About $50 to replace. Some of the bolts are tough to get to. Make sure you have lots of extensions. One bolt on the front drivers side is easier to get to with a long (several) extension(s) snaked in from under and in front of the radiator. The top bolts on the back, from inside through the shifter hole. Getting everything lined back up is a pita, but once it starts, it goes relatively easy. If you have access to a cherry picker you could use one of these and lift it from the top. Its much easier to handle supported from the top. Another little tidbit.. The throw out bearing is pressed on a carrier and has to be pressed off, then the new one pressed back on. The first time I did the clutch, it took all weekend. Started Friday and finished Sunday. The second time (pilot bushing and crank angle sensor) took about 5 hours. Of course, a couple of friends assisted the second time. That really helps. :bow: Friends Mines made that buzzychatteryschreechy sound only once since I changed the pilot bushing. If I remember correctly, it was pretty cold that day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slick Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 glad ya got it done and no more horrible noise :cool2: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 Thanks for the valuable info snosnk !! The tap trick makes sense, but i decided mine didn't need replacing, so I didn't consider the options. Still... The WD21's have the same carrier set up for the throw out bearing. I didn't bother with it and bought a new one for $15 and pressed the new bearing in. After replacing everything, my throw out bearing still barks the first few shifts, but goes away... I ignore it as I know everything is brand new and like to think it did it right. B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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