XRS Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 (edited) Hey guys, I recently purchased a 1998 Pathy with Auto transmission for really cheap. I was taking the vehicle to a shop to change out some fluids and everything looks good except for the transmission. The tech who took it for a test-drive says that there is delayed engagement, and this is an internal problem (which can be quite expensive to diagnose and fix). The tech dropped the transmission pan, and said there was a more than normal metal particles on the magnet. He showed me the pan, and it basically looked like it was entirely covered in small tiny particles...around 1/4 inch thick. However, he did say that the transmission fluid looked okay, although it was a bit varnished. He then proceeded refilling the transmission with new fluid. During this time, I did some research about the engagment delay issue. The delay is somewhat slight--maybe one and a half second to two seconds at most. I've seen on other forums saying that the delay is characteristic of this particular model.I told this to the tech, and he said that ANY sort of delay is not normal for ANY type of vehicle and always points to an internal issue with the transmission (most likely excessive wear he said). The weird thing is that the car only has 90000km and was never used for towing or anything! So I was really surprised that there is so much wear on it. He said that the car will likely need repairs soon and the delay will get worst and worst. So, my question is..do any of you guys experience a similar delay? Is this normal or should there be cause for concern? What are some things I can do to prevent the situation from worsening. Thank you very much in advance! Edited August 30, 2013 by XRS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Towncivilian Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 What fluid was used by the trans shop? Was a full fluid exchange done, or just the fluid replaced during a pan drop? Were any additives added by the shop? It's not so much a delay as just a sluggish engagement of 2->3. The 'excessive' debris may just be all the break in wear and crud from the manufacturing process. A transmission generates 75% of its lifetime wear within the first 5k miles, and if the fluid isn't changed early then it just accumulates and compounds further wear. Transmissions also have poor filtration so it is not unreasonable for the magnet to be fuzzy. 1/4" shavings seems way too large, though. I'm not sure what to suggest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRS Posted August 31, 2013 Author Share Posted August 31, 2013 (edited) Hello Town Civilian, Thank you very much for your response. Only the fluid removed during the pan drop was replaced as the transmission shop said that a flush was not necessary and may cause more issues than it might fix. I'm not sure what fluid they used--I just assumed it would just be conventional Dexron III or equivalent. I didn't mean 1/4" shavings but rather 1/4 inch of accumulated tiny metal particles. None of the shavings I can see were large at all. And by "delayed engagement", I meant moving from Park to Drive or Park to Reverse. They delay is around 1.3 seconds--I just timed it just now. Is this normal? I don't think I have ever experienced this in other vehicles, but I've also never driven a truck, only small economy cars. Edited August 31, 2013 by XRS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamzan Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 Honestly I think all these transmissions do this when they get some mileage on them, especially if they haven't been maintained. I would just drive it, in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Towncivilian Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 Yes, that amount of wear and delay between gears does not sound like anything to worry about. I advise that you do several more drain and fills to get the majority of the old fluid out, and consider adding an auxiliary transmission cooler and inline filter as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRS Posted August 31, 2013 Author Share Posted August 31, 2013 Honestly I think all these transmissions do this when they get some mileage on them, especially if they haven't been maintained. I would just drive it, in my opinion. That's the thing. I would expect this kind of delay for a vehicle with higher mileage, but this particular one only has 90,000km. I never noticed when I test-drove because I usually come to a complete stop before I shift gears and it takes me about a second to get going again. I'm just worried as this might mean I need a rebuild soon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRS Posted August 31, 2013 Author Share Posted August 31, 2013 Yes, that amount of wear and delay between gears does not sound like anything to worry about. I advise that you do several more drain and fills to get the majority of the old fluid out, and consider adding an auxiliary transmission cooler and inline filter as well. Thank you. I was getting a bit worried, as the tech made it seem like it was not normal at all (the delay moving from P to D). I will probably look up some DIYs and do some drain and fills myself. How long should I let the old fluid mix with the new ones? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karmann Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 My transmission does that exact thing, it seems to be pretty normal. Not only that but some delayed engagement/slipping in shifting from 1-2 and sometimes 2-3 is well documented on this forum and also very normal. It's not a ticking time bomb haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Towncivilian Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 (edited) A couple days of driving in between drain and fills is sufficient. The approximate drain and fill capacity is 4 quarts (use a graduated bucket to measure what you drained). Use a new crush washer for the drain plug on the last drain and fill. The torque spec is 25 ft/lbs for the drain plug. This article should help you locate the transmission pan's drain plug as well as the part number for the crush washer. You can ignore the steps to drop the pan since that was already done by the shop and should not be necessary for the rest of the vehicle's lifetime (unless there's a problem) after one pan drop to clean the magnet and change the filter. Edited August 31, 2013 by Towncivilian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRS Posted September 1, 2013 Author Share Posted September 1, 2013 My transmission does that exact thing, it seems to be pretty normal. Not only that but some delayed engagement/slipping in shifting from 1-2 and sometimes 2-3 is well documented on this forum and also very normal. It's not a ticking time bomb haha I'm glad that I'm not the only one and the 'issue' seems to be normal for this transmission. Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRS Posted September 1, 2013 Author Share Posted September 1, 2013 A couple days of driving in between drain and fills is sufficient. The approximate drain and fill capacity is 4 quarts (use a graduated bucket to measure what you drained). Use a new crush washer for the drain plug on the last drain and fill. The torque spec is 25 ft/lbs for the drain plug. This article should help you locate the transmission pan's drain plug as well as the part number for the crush washer. You can ignore the steps to drop the pan since that was already done by the shop and should not be necessary for the rest of the vehicle's lifetime (unless there's a problem) after one pan drop to clean the magnet and change the filter. Thanks Towncivilian. The shop recommended Lubeguard as an additive. Any thoughts on this product? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Towncivilian Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 Yes, Lubegard Red is one of the few additives I will recommend in any circumstance. I use it in my Pathfinder and it seems to do as advertised - it's not a miracle in a bottle, but it sure helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle94 Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 (edited) My truck does this only when cold... Between second and third... And thing to worry about? Mines a '98... Edited September 2, 2013 by Kyle94 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRS Posted September 2, 2013 Author Share Posted September 2, 2013 My truck does this only when cold... Between second and third... And thing to worry about? Mines a '98... Mine has a slight delay between 2nd to 3rd. I don't think it is anything to worry about? Do you get the delay from Park to Reverse/Drive or from Drive to Reverse or vice versa? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle94 Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 Not noticeable if I do... I get delay from park to drive when I first start it cold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRS Posted September 2, 2013 Author Share Posted September 2, 2013 (edited) Not noticeable if I do... I get delay from park to drive when I first start it cold. I think it's normal to have that delay in the morning. I've read that it's from converter drain pack and it takes the first shift to regain pressure or something along those lines. I guess what I'm experiencing might not be "normal" afterall, Do you usually give it a second to engage before stepping on the gas? Because if I do right away, the engine revs then shoots forward when the gear actually engages. I don't mind waiting the second, I just wanted to gauge whether this is normal as, like I have said, I never driven a truck and was wondering if it's normal to have this sort of delay in a larger vehicle. *EDIT: I've also noticed that the delay sometimes is shorter sometimes, and it seems to be somewhat random. I wonder what this portends. Sometimes it's less than a second (using a stopwatch), but sometimes it can take as long as 1.3 seconds. In any case, I will try to switch out more fluid to see if it improves the situation. Thanks for all the responses so far. Edited September 2, 2013 by XRS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle94 Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 Mine does that slamming into gear thing... If I sit at a light in neutral or go from park to drive when cold. Most of my sypmtooms are when cold. So I'm going to do a flush and filter change eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRS Posted September 2, 2013 Author Share Posted September 2, 2013 Mine does that slamming into gear thing... If I sit at a light in neutral or go from park to drive when cold. Most of my sypmtooms are when cold. So I'm going to do a flush and filter change eventually. Does it slam in to gear even without you giving gas when you put it into Drive? Mine doesn't slam into gear unless I give it gas before the transmission actually engages. That does seem odd. Maybe give it a couple seconds before giving it gas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle94 Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 Yeah. Only when I give it gas. Other than that you can feel it engage. But if I'm in a hurry and forget to let it engage fully... Lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle94 Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 Yeah. Only when I give it gas. Other than that you can feel it engage. But if I'm in a hurry and forget to let it engage fully... Lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRS Posted September 2, 2013 Author Share Posted September 2, 2013 Yeah. Only when I give it gas. Other than that you can feel it engage. But if I'm in a hurry and forget to let it engage fully... Lol. Yeah. I get the same thing. How many km or miles do you have on your tranny? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle94 Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 185k miles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Towncivilian Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 I also get the slamming into gear if I try to jump the gun and accelerate before the gear has fully engaged. Simple workaround is to wait until you have felt the trans shift before taking your foot off the brake. I have 144k miles, fluid is recent + 20oz. of Lubegard Red, transmission cooler and Magnefine inline filter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRS Posted September 6, 2013 Author Share Posted September 6, 2013 I noticed something this morning. When I shift when the car is still cold and the car is idling at a generally higher rpm (1000 rpm rather than around 700rpm), the revs shoot up a little bit before it the transmission engages. In this normal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushnut Posted September 6, 2013 Share Posted September 6, 2013 absolutely, when you start your car it is running in an open loop. (large amounts of fuel and air) just to bring the engine up to temp. also the added drag of the trany and the cold fluid will cause the engine to rev up to compensate. I generally don't shift into drive or reverse until the revs start dropping I just let the car idle for 90 seconds or so. not sure if that is necessary but it makes me feel better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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