CHAOSMARINE Posted June 9, 2013 Share Posted June 9, 2013 I really think this is an injector, filter or fuel pump issue. My MAF is good, cats clean, hoses good, distributor, plugs and wires, .... so on and so on except the O2 sensors but I have no smoke coming out. The only things I haven't done is fuel related. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluewulf73 Posted June 9, 2013 Author Share Posted June 9, 2013 Stumbling is likely due to an ignition miss, which is also causing it to shoot black smoke out the tail pipe. I would verify the distributor installation to make sure the timing didn't get messed up. Although even with a distributor it probably uses the cam/crank position sensors to control the timing? I don't know the VG33s. As for the code, why not replace the knock sensor because that could very well affect the timing and making the car run rich depending on how the ECM is interpreting the signals. After that and replacing the the MAF I would bring it in rather than throwing more parts at it. ScanGuage II reads the info from the OBDII port so not all signals are available, it requires some special X-Guage codes to read the not-so-typical (or even some typical) signals which may or may not work. I have it and I haven't been able to see my O2 or trans temp data. Well, I have taken the truck into Nissan and even they couldn't find the fault with their scanner. It was they that suggested the IACV and TPS be changed. Their suggestions did nothing. The knock sensor was not an issue until very recently (approximately 2 weeks ago) when the truck started stumbling for longer than 20-30 seconds without stalling. I've been battling with this stumbling/stalling issue for months. The truck is 15 years old, I already bought the parts so I'm going to install what parts I have. Not a bad thing to replace 15 year-old parts. Hopefully one of the items I'm replacing will do the trick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluewulf73 Posted June 9, 2013 Author Share Posted June 9, 2013 I really think this is an injector, filter or fuel pump issue. My MAF is good, cats clean, hoses good, distributor, plugs and wires, .... so on and so on except the O2 sensors but I have no smoke coming out. The only things I haven't done is fuel related. I've heard of injectors not firing/atomizing fuel properly due to clogs so they drip the fuel instead and cause issues similar to the ones I'm experiencing, along with soem I'm not (pinging due to lean mixture). This might be causing the problem...once i've replaced the items with ones I currently have, if the problem persists, I will probably take the top of the engine apart again and replace the injectors and Fuel Pressure Regulator (which I do not yet have) On the CATs, I have not seen them glow red at all and have not felt much difference in heat between the inlet and outlets so I don't think they're plugged. The upstream sensors might be fouled up now since the truck's been running so rich, hence my reasoning for replacing them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qatcool Posted June 9, 2013 Share Posted June 9, 2013 While waiting for your truck to get fix.. so i can follow your lead, my a/c died need to spend 2000QR for the fixed.... my wife had enough of my pathy... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluewulf73 Posted June 10, 2013 Author Share Posted June 10, 2013 While waiting for your truck to get fix.. so i can follow your lead, my a/c died need to spend 2000QR for the fixed.... my wife had enough of my pathy... So has mine...unfortunately for her, a long time ago, she made the decision to keep it and fix it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgallant Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 Hey Bluewulf, I would leave well enough alone with the knock sensor I think it is symptom of your problem rather than the cause. I just wanted to ask have you ever had an issue with starting when your pathfinder is warm. Basically it runs fine you stop shutdown and 10 to 15 minutes later try to start and it just will not start for about 1/2 an hour. In my case it was the distributor that had failed, and while I know you replaced it it sounds a lot like a heat related electrical issue. Something is getting warm and then failing. I will pop in and ask my local Nissan guy what he thinks, if you were a little closer I would suggest taking the time to have him look at it, but Mission is along way to come if he has no luck. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluewulf73 Posted June 10, 2013 Author Share Posted June 10, 2013 (edited) Hey Bluewulf, I would leave well enough alone with the knock sensor I think it is symptom of your problem rather than the cause. I just wanted to ask have you ever had an issue with starting when your pathfinder is warm. Basically it runs fine you stop shutdown and 10 to 15 minutes later try to start and it just will not start for about 1/2 an hour. In my case it was the distributor that had failed, and while I know you replaced it it sounds a lot like a heat related electrical issue. Something is getting warm and then failing. I will pop in and ask my local Nissan guy what he thinks, if you were a little closer I would suggest taking the time to have him look at it, but Mission is along way to come if he has no luck. Hey, Yes, I too think it is not the root of the problem, rather a symptom. I was doing some research today and found this... EDIT: that didn't work...is there a way to post a PDF file here? EDIT again: FOUND IT HERE It is a pdf document on a well-know (Service Bulletin NTB01-033a) issue and service/thorough cleaning of the injectors for the 3.0L and 3.3L engines with rough idle, hesitation and/OR MIL codes P0300, 0301, 0302, 0303, 0304, 0305, 0306. The MIL codes will not necessarily show up. I need to call my dealership to find out why they did not suggest this cleaning and how much it costs. According to the service bulletin it is 1.1 hours. I go out to Mission/Hatzic area around once/mo. to do some wheeling and TP near East Stave Lake/Davis Lake. Unfortunately, I have not gone out there since this and my axle problem took hold of my Pathy and life. I have a friend who has a friend/co-worker...who makes some killer fuel system cleaner. Apparently he's got a patent and everything. Sells it privately so I've asked for a couple of bottles. Will try that after I install the MAF (got it today! YAY!!!) Edited June 10, 2013 by Bluewulf73 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qatcool Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 Any change after replacing the MAF? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluewulf73 Posted June 11, 2013 Author Share Posted June 11, 2013 i'll tell you in a couple of hours...was night here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluewulf73 Posted June 11, 2013 Author Share Posted June 11, 2013 UPDATE: The MAF did not fix it The EGI did not fix it The car drives...well, ok...car runs very rough at idle, idles between 400-600 instead of the 200-400 it was at with the old MAF. Upon acceleration from a stop, it hesitates and is very sluggish between 1000 and 2500 RPM. At that RPM it pick up dramatically. I can feel the engine miss while cruising at 1200-2000 rpm on very light throttle. NO MIL and NO codes have come up. Called the stealership yesterday to ask about the service bulletin I posted yesterday. They said it would be around $250 CAD but they would diagnose first. I am very tempted to take it there, have them do this service and ask them to check/adjust the timing. My wife is pi$$ed and is blaming the me and the snorkel installation for this... Calgon take me away!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stioc Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 (edited) I am very tempted to take it there, have them do this service and ask them to check/adjust the timing. My wife is pi$$ed and is blaming the me and the snorkel installation for this... Calgon take me away!!!! Yes, I would find a good Nissan master tech and have them diagnose the problem especially if it can be easily replicated. Don't tell them what they should do because the goal is to get them to find and fix the problem. Edited June 11, 2013 by stioc 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluewulf73 Posted June 12, 2013 Author Share Posted June 12, 2013 Yes, I would find a good Nissan master tech and have them diagnose the problem especially if it can be easily replicated. Don't tell them what they should do because the goal is to get them to find and fix the problem. So, I took it to the dealership, they diagnosed it but couldn't find an answer. I didn't mention the service bulletin until they were about to send me away, telling me they couldn't find the issue. I then spoke to their manager and together we looked at what the options were when getting P0300 (oh, yeah...I got that one today) So, the did the flush and it did nothing for me truck. They were going to blame my snorkel saying there was a leak. I told him to test it so he put his hand on on the intake hole, covering it and me pathy promptly died. I noticed that the only place that has not been touched is the gasket between the TB and the IM (IM was removed and replaced when the IACV was changed) so they did a test wehre they sprayed brake fluid all over the engine, including the distributor and plugwires to see if anything changes. When they sprayed the IM at the gasket, they thought it sucke it up there pretty quickly...then they did the gasket between the TB and IM. There, we heard a gasping/sucking sound so they kept the truck and are going to diagnose. They did not charge me for the injector cleaning (yet) but I am getting fed up with the amount of $$ I am sinking into this truck without results. For now, I guess I have to be happy driving around in the fully loaded 2013 Sentra they gave me as a loaner... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebelord Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 Nice of them to give you a loaner. But also interesting that they are getting stumped on it also. OMG, this reminded me of a issue I had with my buddies 5.0 Mustang. Similar type issue, couldnt set a proper timing, non consistent idle, ran rich then lean etc etc. What it was, was the intake manifold gasket to the heads. I know yours hasnt been off. But IIRC we do have aluminum heads on a iron block. AND you have played in some water recently. What are the chances of the head possibly getting hit with a bunch of water and warping some. But just enough to cause a lower intake manifold gasket leak? Long shot, not sure on how to do the proper vacuum test for it. But something.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluewulf73 Posted June 12, 2013 Author Share Posted June 12, 2013 (edited) Nice of them to give you a loaner. But also interesting that they are getting stumped on it also. OMG, this reminded me of a issue I had with my buddies 5.0 Mustang. Similar type issue, couldnt set a proper timing, non consistent idle, ran rich then lean etc etc. What it was, was the intake manifold gasket to the heads. I know yours hasnt been off. But IIRC we do have aluminum heads on a iron block. AND you have played in some water recently. What are the chances of the head possibly getting hit with a bunch of water and warping some. But just enough to cause a lower intake manifold gasket leak? Long shot, not sure on how to do the proper vacuum test for it. But something.. Actually they did take the IM off when they replaced the IACV. There is a very slight chance the IM warped due to water splashing on it, but very, very slight as the water did not get that high inside the engine bay (only bow-wave). I checked immediately after I went through that shallow lake and found no evidence of water on or near the IM... They are stumped. They've used three different Master Mechanics on my truck and they have not yet been able to figure out exaclty what the issue is. Apparently they've seen vehicles with similar but not equal symptoms roll through their garage...each had a different issue...I hope its just a vacuum leak and not something more serious...I found out today that injectors for YoDa are $200 a piece... All in all, they've been absolutely phenomenal. Very friendly and they take the time to explain exactly what they are doing to the vehicle, every time. Very helpful. I was thinking of going to a second dealership but these guys have been so great I'm going to stick with 'em. They'll be doing vacuum tests on the IM and the TB gaskets tomorrow... Edited June 12, 2013 by Bluewulf73 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebelord Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 Was talking about the head warping. But if water didn't get that high then yea, shouldn't have to worry about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stioc Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 Also, if there's a vacuum leak before the MAF (such as the snorkel) what difference does it make? You could even run it without an air filter and it should run just fine. And they removed the intake manifold to replace the IACV? why? Usually only requires removing the throttle body. I'm inclined to suggest bringing it to another place but...hopefully they'll be able to determine the exact cause. Goodluck man I'm pulling for you and your Pathy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluewulf73 Posted June 12, 2013 Author Share Posted June 12, 2013 i thought replacing the IACV required the removal of the upper IM? I tried getting at it without removing the upper IM to clean it but wasn't able to... oh well...for now I'll just enjoy driving a new car. With any luck me pathy'll come back to me running like a champ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qatcool Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 UPDATE: The MAF did not fix it The EGI did not fix it The car drives...well, ok...car runs very rough at idle, idles between 400-600 instead of the 200-400 it was at with the old MAF. Upon acceleration from a stop, it hesitates and is very sluggish between 1000 and 2500 RPM. At that RPM it pick up dramatically. I can feel the engine miss while cruising at 1200-2000 rpm on very light throttle. NO MIL and NO codes have come up. Called the stealership yesterday to ask about the service bulletin I posted yesterday. They said it would be around $250 CAD but they would diagnose first. I am very tempted to take it there, have them do this service and ask them to check/adjust the timing. My wife is pi$$ed and is blaming the me and the snorkel installation for this... Calgon take me away!!!! I know how you feel....just a thought, when my a/c compressor was change they have mistaken 2 vacuum lines in the canister. maybe you have swap the lines? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stioc Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 Ah I keep forgetting you have a VG33, I'm not sure where the IACV is on that so quite possibly it is under the IM- mea culpa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluewulf73 Posted June 12, 2013 Author Share Posted June 12, 2013 I know how you feel....just a thought, when my a/c compressor was change they have mistaken 2 vacuum lines in the canister. maybe you have swap the lines? Hey qatcool, I doubt it since they only replaced the hoses near the rear of the engine...i seriously think it might be a vacuum leak now. What are the odds. I've replaced almost every sensor and component in the engine bay to do with air/fuel and spark... Yesterday as they were diagnosing with me after the injector cleaning, it sounded like it was running on 5 instead of 6 cylinders...no grey or blue smoke though...and I'm not burning/loosing any oil... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 If you suspect it's got a dead cylinder, try unhooking the spark plugs one at a time. If you find one that doesn't make the engine run worse when you unhook it, that cylinder's not firing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluewulf73 Posted June 12, 2013 Author Share Posted June 12, 2013 If you suspect it's got a dead cylinder, try unhooking the spark plugs one at a time. If you find one that doesn't make the engine run worse when you unhook it, that cylinder's not firing. THanks S, I thought of doing that but we discovered it late yesterday evening and the Pathy was already at the dealership so, they kept it and are diagnosing today. The biggest issue was that I was not getting any codes at all so they could not find which direction to go. I guess they are so reliant on the OBDII system now that it almost seems like "if it ain't got a code it ain't broken". Maybe its a spark plug...replaced them recently, along with wires...all NGK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stioc Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Any luck? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluewulf73 Posted June 13, 2013 Author Share Posted June 13, 2013 Not yet. all day in the shop yesterday (probably sat there all lonely for most of the day) and still no suspects. However, I was brainstorming today and had a thought... When the plugs were installed, anti-seize was rubbed onto the threads of some and that got me thinking...the issues I am experiencing now could be caused by a plug that is working its way out of its bedding... Let me explain. Two days ago, when they sprayed brake fluid on the plugs and wires, we heard a very loud "pfft" noise, twice; as if pressurized air was being pushed out. There is a very faint knocking sound (as if something is loose) coming from within the engine, a loose spark plug would create poor spark, causing the car to run rich and stumble which would get worse as the engine warms up and expands, loosening up the plug. Lastly, my buddy found an article where it states that using anti-seize on plugs is not always a good idea as some mechanics have found that plugs spin themselves out of their socket due to the car's vibration...especially when screwed into aluminium heads. Now, I may be wrong on all counts, however I think its worth a mention to the dealership, don't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stioc Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 A plausible theory for sure and wouldn't hurt to check Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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