drewp29 Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 (edited) Alright, alright, alright . . . enough of my dilly-dallying around already! I'm finally pulling the trigger on the AC 2" lift. After reading many a post by rocky2 about the cons of the 2" suspension lift, and weighing the pros and cons written on my yellow legal pad, I have decided it's time to get this party started. I've needed tires for awhile. I'm not down to the carcass yet, but the el-cheapo Prodigy HT tires that were on the vehicle when I purchased it have little tread life left, and are absolutely el-crapo in the snow and ice. Enter the Treadwright Sentinel B2B, 265/75R16 (31.6" O.D.) - www.treadwright.com/p-58-265-75r16-sentinel-b2b-a-t-d.aspx Now before you say - eeeeew a retread, I have done an exorbitant amount of research on these, and I have a buddy who runs the Guard Dogs and absolutely loves them. The Sentinels are a Dueler AT Revo clone, which should suit my driving situation well. I debated the Warden, a BFG AT clone, but I like the fact the Sentinel is new rubber from bead to bead. Along with the bigger tires - new rims!: Mickey Thompson Classic II - http://www.tirepackage.com/Wheels/Classic-II-Alloy-Wheel-by-Mickey-Thompson.aspx?t_c=11&t_s=210&t_pt=100039&t_pl=2892&t_pn=M%2fT368412 The backspacing should be about right, and I think they'll look good too. I decided on the AC 2" lift, mostly because I'd like a little extra lift, and I need new springs and dampers regardless. A SFD is still on the table for the future, but I can't spend the extra for it right now. I went with the Bilstein rear dampers from 4x4parts and KYB Excel-G struts from partsgeek. I had a few other items in my partsgeek order (camber bolts, strut mounts, brake master cylinder, front sway bar bushings, etc.), as well as the Mile Marker manual hubs from 4x4parts. I just e-mailed NX4 about ordering the 1" top mount strut spacer, so hopefully I'll have that in time as well. I think that about covers it. P.S. The sway bar bushings are a necessity, I have a rattle in the front that is more prevalent when the articulation of one wheel is greater than the other, and the sway bar has noticeable play when I yank on it. HOPEFULLY they solve the problem. I also have new tie rod ends, sway bar links, and various other suspension components for a refresher. Edited December 20, 2012 by drewp29 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocky2 Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 (edited) The AC kit is cool, just a pain in the Ass, it makes the ride feel stiff and gives you lift but these are my concerns. You gotta Love a lift kit that suggests you buy camber bolts to remedy the impending results of using their lift ie. increasing the angle of your Lower Control Arms (LCA) and CV joints, which creates positive camber (bulldog look), never mentions the top out problem you are going to experience (due to limited stroke, you're stretching the strut) "I love how everybody here has some sort of excuse for this" and the need for Manual locking hubs to lessen the effects of increased CV angles, (still there just covered up) and the rear rake you're gonna get, cause the motor weighs the front down and the rear springs are not paired correctly IMHO. The SFD was pretty easy and you're going to wish that you went for 4" in the end. But maybe I'm wrong and the AC lift is the cats meow!! I did the same thing as you, looked around on the web and went for the AC kit, and have not regreted it just would have done it differently if I had to do it again. Read "theexbrit" s write up if you need more opinion on this matter. Or you're just baiting me to respond and we digress Edited December 20, 2012 by rocky2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverPath Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 The rake is there because it is factory, Your disgust for the AC lift humors me every time I read Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drewp29 Posted December 20, 2012 Author Share Posted December 20, 2012 Nope, not baiting . . . I generally agree with everything you have said, and I appreciate it too . I looked at it this way, I had to do springs and dampers, so the cost right there for a stock refresher was enough to warrant the upgrade to the 2" lift. I considered the increased angle of the CV joints, and was already going to do the manual hubs for the gas mileage increase, so it simply kills two birds with one stone. I am however, very interested in the strut extension you had posted in your thread - the modified version. That would eliminate the top out issue. I think I can handle the CV issue, and the need for camber bolts. You have a lot of great ideas, and the means to accomplish them, which is admirable. And given the lack of aftermarket support for our R50s, I think it is AWESOME! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theexbrit Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 I don't think Rocky2 is "disgusted" with the AC lift, it's just there are some issues when you install it that need to be addressed & you can get better results with a SFD, etc, for around the same price if not cheaper. I love my lift but I'm thinking of going the SFD route (to fix the CV angle), Spacer at the bottom of the Koni's (to fix the "top out") & the elongated top bolt hole (to fix the positive camber issues). I just want to wait until I have the energy to rip all my front suspension down again. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverPath Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Oh it wasn't a dig on rocky2, the way I read what he types out just makes me laugh a little Good luck drew and post up pics when its done. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devonianwalk Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 My struts have not "topped out" since the first couple of months after the install. I'm guessing the springs finally settled? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaMountianbiker Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 My struts have not "topped out" since the first couple of months after the install. I'm guessing the springs finally settled? But your pathy just sits in the garage and gets waxed and polished. Hell you probably even have a cover for it ?????? It's been a LOOOOOOOOnnnngggg time since we've seen that thing wheel or be dirty ???? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocky2 Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 (edited) Yes by all means go for it "drewp29", take lots of pictures and post them, give us your alignment numbers (camber) when done, tell us what you think and be safe!! Your opinion matters and will put this topic to rest for me and "silverpath" (hopefully that makes you laugh a little) Ha Ha You'll dig it and workin on your ride is really what its all about. Trust me on offsetting the top bolt hole for camber adjustment. Try it on your old struts for a visual and practice piece, all the high end struts use this approach to adjustment. The top out issue is really more of a nuisance and sounds weird (struts if damaged only $63.00/piece) but you can live with it or incorporate limiting straps, rod extensions or inserts later down the road. The CV's won't blow up or anything like that, just might start to click once in awhile. The manual hubs will help when disengaged but the issue is still there locked or unlocked. Again only $50.00 for an axle assembly. Good luck and looking forward to your write-up. Edited December 21, 2012 by rocky2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theexbrit Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 My struts have not "topped out" since the first couple of months after the install. I'm guessing the springs finally settled? You're a lucky man, I've had my lift for about a year & mine still top out pretty bad, but when they go tits up I'll put Koni's & a spacer on. As for the CV angle, I measured the angle with the wheel off the ground & with the 2" AC lift my maximum angle was about 25 degrees, still well within OEM specs (33 degrees max I think) so you'll be fine. The lift was one of the best things I've done to my rig but I'm still going with the SFD, etc, later. I honestly think that rocky2 has come up with some good solutions to the problems that some people encounter with an R50 lift & that's what this forum is all about, helping each other & sharing info/experience. Besides, a "lively" debate is good now & again! :laugh: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drewp29 Posted December 21, 2012 Author Share Posted December 21, 2012 (edited) I was extremely interested in the Koni insert mod, but since they don't make the Koni's for the 00-04 Pathy's, then that's out. rocky2 - when you elongated the top hole on the strut, did you in turn also use the camber bolts? I agree the SFD is a great option as well, and it very well could be something I do in the next couple of years. For the time being, I think the AC lift will serve me well, and once upgrade-itis sets in again I'm sure my OCRD (Obsessive Compulsive Research Disorder . . . true story :-) ) will be in full swing. I still need to upgrade the sound system. Only the front two speakers play at this point since the previous owner obviously had an aftermarket deck and when reinstalling the stock deck only hooked up the fronts. It's okay though, I would have re-done the stereo regardless. A big thanks to everyone in this forum for the knowledge and help! The camera phone will definitely get a workout - I'll let you know how it goes! Edited December 21, 2012 by drewp29 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocky2 Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 I was extremely interested in the Koni insert mod, but since they don't make the Koni's for the 00-04 Pathy's, then that's out. rocky2 - when you elongated the top hole on the strut, did you in turn also use the camber bolts? I agree the SFD is a great option as well, and it very well could be something I do in the next couple of years. For the time being, I think the AC lift will serve me well, and once upgrade-itis sets in again I'm sure my OCRD (Obsessive Compulsive Research Disorder . . . true story :-) ) will be in full swing. I still need to upgrade the sound system. Only the front two speakers play at this point since the previous owner obviously had an aftermarket deck and when reinstalling the stock deck only hooked up the fronts. It's okay though, I would have re-done the stereo regardless. A big thanks to everyone in this forum for the knowledge and help! The camera phone will definitely get a workout - I'll let you know how it goes! If the KYB's part #'s are the same, not sure though, the Koni 86-2582 will work. But seem hard to find at this time. Used the stock bolts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theexbrit Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 You'll like the lift, gives the truck a whole different feel (& gives you more confidence on the trail ). Use the stock bolts with the elongated hole you won't need camber bolts. With the elongated hole you can also throw an NX4 1" spacer on there if you want to get rid of the "rake". I really liked the look & feel of my truck with the spacers on but I couldn't get rid of the horrible positive camber. Now I'm going to rip my struts out again, elongate the top hole & get some more spacers. Don't worry about the CV "angle of dangle", I measured mine with the spacer fitted & it was still within Nissan specs, 30 degrees max, I think it measured. Sure that's cutting it fine but devonianwalk has had his lift & spacers for years & he's had no problems with his cv's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drewp29 Posted December 21, 2012 Author Share Posted December 21, 2012 If the KYB's part #'s are the same, not sure though, the Koni 86-2582 will work. But seem hard to find at this time.Used the stock bolts The KYB part #'s are different for the 96-99 and the 00-04. Not sure what is different, whether it is valving, tube diameter, mounting differences, or all of the above. I'll see what I can do with the camber visually and with the camber bolts, but I might end up slotting the hole if I can't get it aligned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drewp29 Posted December 21, 2012 Author Share Posted December 21, 2012 You'll like the lift, gives the truck a whole different feel (& gives you more confidence on the trail ). Use the stock bolts with the elongated hole you won't need camber bolts. With the elongated hole you can also throw an NX4 1" spacer on there if you want to get rid of the "rake". I really liked the look & feel of my truck with the spacers on but I couldn't get rid of the horrible positive camber. Now I'm going to rip my struts out again, elongate the top hole & get some more spacers. Don't worry about the CV "angle of dangle", I measured mine with the spacer fitted & it was still within Nissan specs, 30 degrees max, I think it measured. Sure that's cutting it fine but devonianwalk has had his lift & spacers for years & he's had no problems with his cv's. Do the NX4 spacers really make so much difference that using two camber bolts per side cannot bring it into alignment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muddfildvaynes Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 I have the 2" AC springs topped with a 4" SFD and I have never messed with my camber bolts, in fact the stock ones are still in there. I just got a alignment and it was good to go, and I wheel the Sh*# out of my pathy. Honestly the only thing you need from AC is the 2" front springs and new struts; then buy the 4" SFD and install it. After I bought the 2" I had to go bigger, and after I went bigger the only leftovers from my original AC 2" lift are the front springs and struts. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devonianwalk Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 But your pathy just sits in the garage and gets waxed and polished. Hell you probably even have a cover for it ?????? It's been a LOOOOOOOOnnnngggg time since we've seen that thing wheel or be dirty ???? Ha! Actually, we keep wheeling in the same location (Uwharrie) and the pics all kind of run together. I'm not brave enough to hit the difficult obstacles with my current set up. Sure that's cutting it fine but devonianwalk has had his lift & spacers for years & he's had no problems with his cv's. Very true. I only engage my Warn hubs when I'm about to hit the trails. I do lock them in for a short trip to town to keep everything "up front" lubed from time to time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theexbrit Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 Do the NX4 spacers really make so much difference that using two camber bolts per side cannot bring it into alignment? I don't know what the deal was with mine as most other members have not had a problem with the spacers, but for the life of me I just could not get rid of a horrible positive camber whenever i had the spacers on. 'Course, being the brain dead moron that I am I didn't even think of elongating the top bolt hole, would have cured all my ills in a jiffy. I sold my spacers to another member so now I have to but more when I feel like ripping out my struts again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocky2 Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 (edited) I will only speculate that using the AC coils (sorry SilverPath) in conjuction with the 1" NX4 strut top spacer caused at least 3" of overall strut length increase. Thus increasing the angle of the LCA and the hub followed. \ / I hope that's not offensive XPLORx4. Camber angle was increased toward the positive direction. When you lower a vehicle camber angles go the other direction, negative. / \ Think about this scenario: You put the KrFabs 4" strut top spacers on without the SFD. What will you get? But don't be hard on yourself, you learned to drive on the wrong side of the road anyway. Peace Mate Edited December 22, 2012 by rocky2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drewp29 Posted December 26, 2012 Author Share Posted December 26, 2012 I have not ordered my rims yet. The tires are still probably a week out so that isn't an issue. But, in looking at the rims I was planning on purchasing, tirepackage says they are hubcentric, and when I start the checkout process they are asking for vehicle information. I assume this is so they can provide hubcentric rings right? Also, I have read a few forum threads on whether or not the backspacing on the rear running 33" tires will be an issue with rear tire tuck when the suspension is fully compressed. Were I to go the SFD route and 33s in the future, would the -3.625" BS on these rims pose an issue here? I know -3.75" is recommended, and the 1/8" might not be enough different, but thought I'd check with the forum members just in case. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drewp29 Posted December 27, 2012 Author Share Posted December 27, 2012 So I bought the rims from Street Side Auto. $461 w/ delivery. Can't beat that price - for those rims at least! The M/T wheel fitment guide states the hub centering rings are not needed for the 00-04 Pathfinder (for part # 90000000951), so I have my fingers crossed that the hub diameter is correct. Otherwise, I am sure I can get a set from wherever I have the tires mounted and balanced, until I can find a more suitable metal ring either custom machined or aftermarket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drewp29 Posted January 23, 2013 Author Share Posted January 23, 2013 Here it is a month later and I'm almost done . . . As it sits right now, everything is installed, but I do have one issue: My passenger side strut has a gap between the center strut rod nut and the strut mount. The nut is bottomed out on the rod and I still have about a 3/8" gap. I am not sure what the problem is since the assembly was put back together the same way as the driver's side. I did however forget to clock the strut mount correctly before taking the spring compressors off and had to clock it after mounting the top 3 strut bolts to the engine bay. I had to turn the strut about 120 degrees to get the spindle mounts located correctly so it may have damaged the bearing? There is a smaller gap between the mount and the top spring perch on that side (which the bearing fills), but no where near the gap between the nut and the mount. I dunno, I am going to pull the strut back out tomorrow after work and have a look. Hopefully nothing is broken and I just need to redo the strut mount. Which means I'll get another workout with the spring compressors, which are a huge pain in the balls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drewp29 Posted January 23, 2013 Author Share Posted January 23, 2013 Oh, and I need to trim the front bumper just a tad to clear the outside tread blocks while turning. I removed the mud flaps and the tires clear fine at the rear now. Consequently I broke the heads off 3 of the 8 screws that hold the mud flaps on as they were brittle and weak sauce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sroeser01 Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Pictures when complete!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drewp29 Posted January 24, 2013 Author Share Posted January 24, 2013 I hope to have the strut situation sorted out tonight, so by the weekend I should be able to post some pics! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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