Post timing belt change woes, advice needed. Fixed!

[ferrariowner123]

Hey all,

 

So i did my timing belt, water pump, tensioner, valve cover gaskets, and intake manifold gaskets yesterday, and all went well on that end, fixing a small timing issue, everything back together and appears to be running well.

 

However, my issues began when after getting the car going again.

 

At first, it wouldn't start,shot out an error code, initially of p1320 i believe, (distributor ignition interpreted).

 

After some trial and error, eventually got it going, but man it was idling horribly, sounded like i just did a cam kit. It gave us a random misfire (P0300) and while were disabling the intake manifold i removed the distributor cap and wires, whilst doing so, one of the boots broke, causing use to break of the wires where it connects to the spark plug. So we fixed it to the best our abilities, and ran a little bit better. and i was able to limp home with NO POWER.EDIT: I just found out that a p0300 is actually a multiple cylinder misfire, which makes me think more and more that i did put the wire on in the incorrect way. Source; EC-172 in the FSM

 

So im over nighting a new NGK kit hoping this will solve my problems, but i was hoping i could get a diagram for the distributor plug leads, basically what wire from what spark plug goes to what plug end on the distributor cap. (Really hoping that made sense) so that i can check and see if i might have plugged the wires in wrong, i never disconnected them from the distributor cap themselves, but im just trying to rule out anything and everything, because i really don't want to replace the distributor itself.

 

Is there anything else it could be? anything else i should rule out?

 

I am very confident that the timing is not the issue, everything was TDC when the belt was put on, and i followed the step by step guide to a T!!! we made triple sure the cams lined up the dimples, and that the crank lined up with the factory pen marks on the crank gear.

 

and yes, i did check the service manual, there wasn't anything jumping out at me. maybe i over looked something.

 

EDIT: Changed the title to hopefully get some more answers. Open to any suggestions.

 

Check out post #4 some more info from me

 

UPDATE #2: so it turns out I was a tooth off, but now it's down on power, I'm told it's either ignition timing or off a tooth between the cams and the cranks. Keep reading for more info?

 

Thanks guys.

 

-Kyle

Edited May 12, 2012 by ferrariowner123

[devonianwalk]

There should be a cylinder designation on the dizzy cap. Mine has the "1-2-3-4-5-6" stamped on the top next to each plug. Also, make sure the #6 plug is connected .. that one alomst drove me nuts when I did my plugs.

 

 

Oh, and I had to retard my timing by rotating the dizzy after doing my timing belt change. Some say that the ECU will compensate for the timing but, I did witness a better idle when I played with my cap. Maybe the ECU neede some time to compensate?

[adamzan]

If the timing belt was put on correctly, there should be no need to adjust the distributor at all. If your new wires/cap don't solve the problem, I would check the timing with a timing light. If it is off you may be off a tooth.

[ferrariowner123]

There should be a cylinder designation on the dizzy cap. Mine has the "1-2-3-4-5-6" stamped on the top next to each plug. Also, make sure the #6 plug is connected .. that one alomst drove me nuts when I did my plugs.

 

 

Oh, and I had to retard my timing by rotating the dizzy after doing my timing belt change. Some say that the ECU will compensate for the timing but, I did witness a better idle when I played with my cap. Maybe the ECU neede some time to compensate?

 

im going to assume dizzy cap means distributor cap? (been a long day) and i guess ill start there, and this might sound like a super noob question, but what piston is what number? i honestly have no idea.

 

and you can move the distributor rotor? im going to go with its not easy? didn't budge for me (but not really trying to move it). I did have my car is gear while i was doing the belt change, (didn't really work, still had a ton of slope)

 

And how long should the ECU take? because its probably ran a total of 35 minutes give or take since the change.

 

 

If the timing belt was put on correctly, there should be no need to adjust the distributor at all. If your new wires/cap don't solve the problem, I would check the timing with a timing light. If it is off you may be off a tooth.

 

What is the black magic you speak of?

 

EDIT: i have some new info.

 

I forgot to mention that, while i was driving home, the check engine light was flashing (low speed) and then when i jumped on the freeway and made it up to speed, it went solid, and then when i slowed down, (off the freeway) it started flashing, any ideas?

 

Also, i started it today, and i started hearing a weird rattle, near the EGR side of the intake (Honestly i thought it was the EGR, but i don't know what to listen for, but it never made this noise before). and the engine is not as smooth as it sounded yesterday after getting it running.

 

When we first started up it sounded fine, when you were standing over the engine bay, the way we knew it was misfiring, was the exhaust and revving it.

 

unfortunately i don't have access to the code reader anymore, so i cant find out if i have any new codes. but ill will report when I get the problem fixed.

 

Would a video help for you guys? i take a quick one and post it up here.

 

Thanks again.

 

-Kyle

Edited April 16, 2012 by ferrariowner123

[devonianwalk]

Dizzy = Distributor

 

Each engine cylinder is labeled 1 thru 6. Your plug wires will have the corresponding number for each cylinder and should have a number stamped on top of the distributor cap. I have no clue as to the ECU claim as mine never came up to speed until I loosened the distributor and rotated it, twisting it by hand, with the engine running. Once it sounded good, I had my buddy tweek it using his timing light a day or two later.

 

*edit .. The video could help. Worse case is that you might be off a tooth as Adamzan stated. It is really easy to have the correct tooth count between both banks but, the crank could be off from your cams.

Edited April 16, 2012 by devonianwalk

[ferrariowner123]

Dizzy = Distributor

 

Each engine cylinder is labeled 1 thru 6. Your plug wires will have the corresponding number for each cylinder and should have a number stamped on top of the distributor cap. I have no clue as to the ECU claim as mine never came up to speed until I loosened the distributor and rotated it, twisting it by hand, with the engine running. Once it sounded good, I had my buddy tweek it using his timing light a day or two later.

 

*edit .. The video could help. Worse case is that you might be off a tooth as Adamzan stated. It is really easy to have the correct tooth count between both banks but, the crank could be off from your cams.

 

Does the timing gun help identify which is out of time, weather its the crank or cams?

and ill post a video tomorrow after school.

 

And how in the heck did you twist the distributor by hand? is there some place in FSM about doing that?

 

Thanks for the help!

 

-Kyle

Edited April 16, 2012 by ferrariowner123

[pathfounder]

I hate to say this, but lining up the dimples is not really the proper way to do it. On my engine, the dimples themselves were actually pretty far off. It was literally NOT POSSIBLE to have all three aligned at once (it was off by half of a tooth).

 

The proper way to do a timing belt is to line the cam(s), and crank very-nearly with the dimples, and then establish a proper tooth count between the marks on the gears of all three. The FSM has the tooth count in a table.

 

If the only timing-related thing you touched during the job was the timing belt, and now the engine runs like crap, then I'm sorry but the timing belt was probably done wrong.

[devonianwalk]

To twist the distributor, loosen the bolt (12mm I think?) and physically rotate the distributor by its cap ... wires and all.

 

However, I'm starting to side with these guys on the tooth count based on what you are telling us.

[MrT]

I am very confident that the timing is not the issue, everything was TDC when the belt was put on, and i followed the step by step guide to a T!!! we made triple sure the cams lined up the dimples, and that the crank lined up with the factory pen marks on the crank gear.

 

 

I'd bet my shirt on it being the timing. What you are describing is exactly what happens when the timing is off. And I would highly HIGHLY advise not to touch your distributor until you check your T-belt again.

Edited April 16, 2012 by MrT

[ferrariowner123]

So I'm physically counting the number of teeth on the timing belt and it has to be an exact amount on between the cams, and the crank gear? Does anyone know where in the FSM the timing is? (on my phone) and I won't be touching my dizzy.

 

So to summarize, I'm ripping everything back off, and checking the tooth count, and prey I did everything right?

 

Why doesn't it mentioned this on the timing belt walk through thread?

 

Anything else worth mentioning before I rip everything out?

 

Can I reuse the coolant that drain out? It's brand new anyway.

 

I'm still going to post a video today. I want to be triple sure.

 

Thanks for all the help guys.

 

I owe everyone a big hug.

 

-Kyle

[adamzan]

There should be 40 teeth between the two cam marks, and 43 between the LH (drivers side) and the crank marks. The ignition timing should be 15 degrees BTDC give or take 2 degrees. DO NOT screw with the distributor until you confirm the belt is on right.

 

You can reuse the coolant as long as you drain it into a clean container. I reused some of mine and I put it through a coffee filter.

 

My father had a 2000 pathfinder and the belt was changed at a shop, and when he got it back (actually I picked it up), it ran like @!*% and had no power. I took it back twice and they swore up and down it was fine. I eventually took it apart myself and the crank/cam count was off by one tooth. It had a flashing CEL (misfire) at idle only but once you drove it went solid.

[ferrariowner123]

There should be 40 teeth between the two cam marks, and 43 between the LH (drivers side) and the crank marks. The ignition timing should be 15 degrees BTDC give or take 2 degrees. DO NOT screw with the distributor until you confirm the belt is on right.

 

You can reuse the coolant as long as you drain it into a clean container. I reused some of mine and I put it through a coffee filter.

 

My father had a 2000 pathfinder and the belt was changed at a shop, and when he got it back (actually I picked it up), it ran like @!*% and had no power. I took it back twice and they swore up and down it was fine. I eventually took it apart myself and the crank/cam count was off by one tooth. It had a flashing CEL (misfire) at idle only but once you drove it went solid.

 

Okay you are really gonna have to bear with me on this.

 

So im going to line up the cams at the dimple points. count how many teeth on the timing belt itself are between the two dimple points?

 

And i have no idea what you mean about ignition timing, is this related to the distributor?

 

and the CEL problem you had with your dads pathy was exactly what was happening with mine, Flashing (atleast it was) at idle, but then at highway speed, went solid.

 

Thanks for the info

 

-Kyle

[ferrariowner123]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bj9ia97AQk&feature=youtu.be

 

So here is the video, hopefully just reconfirms what we already think.

 

I focused in on the EGR valve because that's where a new and different noise was coming from, hopefully the audio is of good enough quality for everyone to make out what was going.

 

Thanks again

 

-Kyle

Edited April 16, 2012 by ferrariowner123

[adamzan]

Okay you are really gonna have to bear with me on this.

 

So im going to line up the cams at the dimple points. count how many teeth on the timing belt itself are between the two dimple points?

 

And i have no idea what you mean about ignition timing, is this related to the distributor?

 

and the CEL problem you had with your dads pathy was exactly what was happening with mine, Flashing (atleast it was) at idle, but then at highway speed, went solid.

 

Thanks for the info

 

-Kyle

I'm gonna let the pictures do the talking, does this help?

 

 

 

[ferrariowner123]

Oh heck yeah!!! wow, i cant believe i missed that in the service manual, thanks man, im gonna try and get this fixed!!!

 

Thanks guys!!!

 

Really appreciate everything!!

 

-Kyle

[devonianwalk]

I don't know guys, it seems that he has really good compression coming from the exhaust. The idle RPM is also where it should be. However, what about the odd sound from the right cam (as best I could hear from the video)?

[adamzan]

That sounds like an exhaust leak.

[pathfounder]

The lower crank mark should be around this clock position:

 

 

Check this next picture out. Notice that the dimple is nowhere near correct. You can see scratch marks where I approximated where it should go.

 

 

Tooth count is boss.

[ferrariowner123]

Alright, i think im ready to takle it, now does anyone have a recommendation an efficient way to move this parts without damaging anything.

 

I read in that step by step guide that if you have a manual you can use the drive line to your advantage? im assuming that only works when trying to the thing that goes on the crank (totally blanking on the name)

 

-Kyle

[devonianwalk]

... the thing that goes on the crank (totally blanking on the name)

 

-Kyle

 

 

Crank shaft pulley / harmonic balancer?

[pathfounder]

Don't use the outside of the crank pulley to turn the crankshaft. I did that with a strap wrench, and about 2 months later, the outer ring walked forward and the serpentine belt came off.

 

You can either put the bolt back in along with something in the hole so that the bolt doesn't bottom out, or do what I did with my automatic, pop off the starter motor and turn the crank with a crowbar against the flex plate.

[ferrariowner123]

Don't use the outside of the crank pulley to turn the crankshaft. I did that with a strap wrench, and about 2 months later, the outer ring walked forward and the serpentine belt came off.

 

You can either put the bolt back in along with something in the hole so that the bolt doesn't bottom out, or do what I did with my automatic, pop off the starter motor and turn the crank with a crowbar against the flex plate.

 

Alright, thanks for tip.

 

Crank shaft pulley / harmonic balancer?

 

yes that thing, it's not been my week,

 

I'm all out of wack, I borrowed my sisters integra, and left the lights on while out school. It could be worse, but it's insult to injury at this point, lol.

 

And a bit of a little update, NGK's came, put them on, honestly the car ran way better, but still sputters and has that weird noise near the EGR.

 

So timing belt check scheduled for Thursday.

 

Really hoping it just one tooth off.

 

-Kyle

Edited April 17, 2012 by ferrariowner123

[MrT]

Saying this just incase you have a brain fart or something (not that you would) while working on this problem. Do not turn the crank or the cam sprockets without the T-belt on unless you are correcting a missaligned cam sprocket. And then only turn it the very small amount you need to get back to where it should be.

 

And just wondering, what cylinder(s) misfires to give you the flashing CEL. That would be a pretty good clue as to which bank has the timing issue and therefore which Cam to focus on.

[devonianwalk]

 

And just wondering, what cylinder(s) misfires to give you the flashing CEL. That would be a pretty good clue as to which bank has the timing issue and therefore which Cam to focus on.

 

Excellent idea.

[ferrariowner123]

Saying this just incase you have a brain fart or something (not that you would) while working on this problem. Do not turn the crank or the cam sprockets without the T-belt on unless you are correcting a missaligned cam sprocket. And then only turn it the very small amount you need to get back to where it should be.

 

And just wondering, what cylinder(s) misfires to give you the flashing CEL. That would be a pretty good clue as to which bank has the timing issue and therefore which Cam to focus on.

 

Well we moved everything into TDC, first took the belt off, and then adjusted the cams from there. That's okay right?

 

And as far as the CEL, we only got a generic "random misfire" or P0300.

 

I wish it gave me a bank but it didn't. But if the passenger cam was out of time for example, wouldn't that cause that side of the engine to misfire, making a random misfire CEL make sense?

Edited April 18, 2012 by ferrariowner123