WOT Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 (edited) Basically I have had a vibration coming from what feels like the rear of the car for a while. Only while moving, its very smooth while idling/completely stopped. Happens most violently under braking. It smooths out on the highway but low cruising speeds its quite noticeable, and while braking it almost feels like the tires are hopping. But it also happens when the brakes arent being used so I dont think it has anything to do with them So obviously its something thats rotating. No play in either rear wheels either. SO I took a look at my driveshaft. I notice there is a bushing/carrier in the near center of the shaft that seems in poor condition. I can push the driveshaft up a good 1/2" easily at this bushing point. Here is a pic of the bushing and its general location Also if I put the car in nuetral there was some front to back and even a little side to side play at the very end of the drive shaft, seemed like more than just the "play" in the gears. But when I put it in park everything kind of firmed up. I made a video of the play in the center section of the shaft. Mines 2wd so I dont know if the design is the same as most of your guys. But Im just pushing up with one hand here showing the play in this bushing Im hoping to get some experienced help on how to diagnose the vibration without just shotgunning expensive parts at it. Thanks guys Edited March 15, 2012 by WOT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Towncivilian Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 I have a 2WD and my driveshaft moves just about that much last time I checked. I haven't noticed anything bad yet, but sometimes when in drive and stopped at a red light there's some noticeable vibration which goes away when I put it in N. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WOT Posted March 11, 2012 Author Share Posted March 11, 2012 Really, play in that bushing is normal. Hmmmm Didnt expect that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howie Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 I have 4WD, and I don't believe I have that bushing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WOT Posted March 12, 2012 Author Share Posted March 12, 2012 Well I was conversing with my dad about this problem and he told me that a year ago when I left my truck at his house so he could torch out my trailing arm bolts, that he screwed up my rear end. He said he moved the car with the trailing arms disconnected and the rear end twisted upwards with the driveshaft. He said some little plate got all bent but he cut it off and it seemed fine. So I hopped under the car and sure enough it looks like there is something missing right at the end of the driveshaft before it enters the rear end. I also notice more play in this area, not so much up and down movement like my last video, but more front to back play. At the end of this video I think my camera picks it up the most. Turn up the volume!! Could this be the cause?? While in park I can twist/shake the driveshaft to make some decent clanking noises I have no idea what needs replacement though, Ive never touched a driveshaft before Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pathfounder Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 A 2.75" ride height change along with whatever your dad did is probably all it took to trash the bearings at the rear of the transmission and/or the pinion bearings in the rear end. Bushing looks fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WOT Posted March 13, 2012 Author Share Posted March 13, 2012 Well Im open to any diagnosing. I need this fixed DIY asap. Its not a constant noise so I dont know what to do. I also couldnt recreate the noise leaving the car in gear on jackstands, it ran mint and smooth. But going down the road, sometimes it vibrates and hops, sometimes is fine. On my ride home from work just now it didnt vibrate so much at all, but I noticed a "click/clank" while reversing into my parking spot... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pathfounder Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 I think it is going to be tough to isolate this one because all of the possibilities are things that rotate together (such as the transmission output shaft and the pinion shaft). You could put the rear on axle stands and apply the parking brake somewhat to add resistance and then try to locate the vibration. A stethoscope would probably be a good thing to get for this. Is it possible that you just lost a wheel weight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamzan Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Have you checked the U joints they could be binding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WOT Posted March 13, 2012 Author Share Posted March 13, 2012 Is it possible that you just lost a wheel weight? Its very possible that the front wheels dont have weights, but the rears were just changed last week with fresh rubber. And thats were I feel the vibration coming from so Ill have to check When the car feels like its HOPPING at low speeds, can that really be caused by an unbalanced tire? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WOT Posted March 13, 2012 Author Share Posted March 13, 2012 (edited) Have you checked the U joints they could be binding. How do you "check" a ujoint. I only have one u joint connection at the front of the driveshaft right? I thought my second video would show proof of a specific type of problem for sure, its supposed to move like that?? Edited March 13, 2012 by WOT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WOT Posted March 14, 2012 Author Share Posted March 14, 2012 Any chance this could be a break issue?? I noticed that the passenger rear drum was unbarrably hot with my bare hands, while the drivers side was hot, but I could hold my hand on it... I noticed the other day when I had the car in drive on jackstands to. Only the drivers side wheel spins but the passenger stays still, until you hold the drivers wheel with your hand then the passenger side would start rotating. Does this indicate anything?? Both wheels can be spun fairly freely while in nuetral in the air Only thing that makes me think it may NOT be breaks, and is my driveshaft/drivetrain is because when I went over train tracks tonight, as my suspension came down going over both the tracks I noticed the noise get louder for the breef second the suspension was loaded, and the noise repeated over the next track. Which to me would happen when the driveshaft and such changed angles Where would you guys start?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesRich Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 The U joints should be the first place to look for a vibration. But you said the rear is hopping at low speeds, that sounds like a tire that separated a belt. With it up on stands and the tires turning did you notice a lump in the tread on either tire? James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WOT Posted March 14, 2012 Author Share Posted March 14, 2012 Theres definetely a mechanical rubbing/grinding noise going on. Its not so much a vibration anymore since I got rid of my airlift1000 kit, its more of a very faint vibration but the noise is getting more noticeable. I may tape my camera under the car tomorrow and go for a low speed drive This is to hard to explain over the internet. What are the sure signs of a bad u-joint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pathfounder Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 If you can hear anything when it's up on stands, then a stethoscope will definitely find it! You'll hear basically the same sound when you touch it to the source component, and it will be very clear. I once thought that I had a loose rocker arm on a car, and it ended up being that the exhaust manifold was loose. 30 seconds with a stethoscope located the sound and another 30 seconds to tighten two bolts, and the problem was solved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pathfounder Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 (edited) When the car feels like its HOPPING at low speeds, can that really be caused by an unbalanced tire? No, but a tire with a broken belt sure could. Switch the fronts with the rears to see if anything changes. Edited March 14, 2012 by pathfounder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WOT Posted March 14, 2012 Author Share Posted March 14, 2012 Ya I cant hear anything when its on stands. Seems smooth. I can maybe try with a helper today to bounce the car a little while the rear end is supported. Tires are brand new, but it made the noise with my winter 2 weeks ago aswell so tires arent the cause. How does a bad ujoint react Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdj Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 (edited) Find the RPM where the vibration is the worst. Slow down and shift to another gear and then speed up to the original RPM. If it shakes at the same RPM then it's not you drive shaft/u-joint because they are now traveling at a different speed. If the vibration now happens at a different RPM then it IS your drive shaft/u-joints and rule out brakes etc. Edited March 14, 2012 by kdj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5523Pathfinder Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Lets go with the most common issue with those rear ends and ask "Have you inspected the upper and lower control arm bushings that locate the rear end?" When these wear out, they can produce all kind of strange things to happen. Usually the worst is what feels like a loose rear end. A simple inspection light and large flat screwdriver/prybar can help you inspect them individually. Helps to let the rear end hang while you are inspecting it. As far as your noise, again, I would put jackstands under the axle so weight is applied. Try and reproduce the noise and inspect with said stethescope, or a long, thin screwdriver to your ear(the handle) and listen. The Carrier bearing may have issues. Yes, some movement is normal, but again, see if you can reproduce the noise and go from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WOT Posted March 14, 2012 Author Share Posted March 14, 2012 I have polyurethane bushing in all the upper and lower trailing arms, and there in perfect condition and bolts are tight. Just checked that. I cant replicate the noise when the car is on jackstands, it just doesnt do it. But my right rear wheel also isnt spinning when its on stands, only the drives side spins in drive. And the right side rear wheel is the drum that gets hot. I almost want to take the drum off, but I fear I wont be able to get it back on and Ill be stuck trying to do my first drum brake job with no specialty tools. A stethescope on the driveshaft sounds difficult, but ill see if I can find an affordable one at the part store Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Towncivilian Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 (edited) The drums should literally just slide off assuming they're not held in by rust. If you have difficulty, you can stick a couple M8 bolts in the drum and tighten until it loosens off. I don't think you need to remove the drums just yet though, start with adjusting the shoes. There should be a rubber rectangular plug on the backing plate, remove it to access the adjuster. Loosen the adjuster, then tightening until there's a slight drag when you turn the wheel by hand. A flathead screwdriver should work fine to move the adjuster star wheel. Be sure you get the orientation of the threads correct, they're different per side (see BR-29). Adjust both sides, then adjust the parking brake following the procedure on BR-31. Edited March 14, 2012 by Towncivilian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WOT Posted March 14, 2012 Author Share Posted March 14, 2012 Well my drums are quite old, I dont know when the last time they were serviced was, but Ive only had to car for 30k miles. Both rear wheels are adjusted fine. Both spin a 1/3 rotation before stopping with a light spin. Drivers side might be a touch looser than the passenger side and thats why it spins first. Maybe I should adjust them so both rear wheels spin when in drive on jackstands?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Towncivilian Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 (edited) Just readjust them both anyway, I guess. Maybe take the drums off, measure their diameter and make sure it's less than the maximum stated on the drum. Check for glazing or rough surfaces, sand if required. Clean everything thoroughly with brake cleaner (stick a drain pan underneath so you don't stain anything), don't use a vacuum or compressed air since there might be asbestos or other toxic airborne materials if you do so. Ensure all the spring hardware is intact. The rear drum hardware lasts practically forever, you shouldn't need any new hardware yet. Edited March 14, 2012 by Towncivilian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WOT Posted March 14, 2012 Author Share Posted March 14, 2012 I think I may change the ujoint first. Seems fairly straight forward assuming the whole driveshaft just unbolts from the 2 ends and the carrier in the middle? But changing the joint didnt seem to easy, but atleast if I cant bang it out I can simply bring the shaft to a non big name shop and have them change it. Assuming I have big trouble, it seemed fairly hard to swap them watching a few youtube videos Just the way it made the noise 5X as loud for the brief second as I went over the train tracks rough, makes me think its something that is changing angle/binding whatever you wanna call it. I'll have to hope for good weather tomorrow and try to remove the driveshaft, seems like the only true way to know if the ujoint is bad is to pull the shaft and try and pivot it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5523Pathfinder Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 There is not really any special tools you need. A selection of screwdrivers and pliers will get you through most of it. If the right side spins when slowing the left side, that is normal. Open differential shifts power to the other side of least resistance. You can back off the drum adjuster through the inspection hole, on the backing plate, blocked with a rubber plug. You rotate it until the drum loosens. Its not easy, but it can be done with a flatblade screwdriver. Its possible the wheel cylinder or something is stuck and you have overheated the drum, and warped it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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