slade420 Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 This is not a scam or spam... I recently found this on youtube. i dont have a video link cuz im at work. but type HHO in youtube or go to hhoforums.com for lots of info. HHO gas is hydrogen and oxygen gas (or Brown's gas) created by putting current through distilled water and baking soda (for conductivity). using something like a mason jar for the cell, stainless steel for the "electrodes". most ppl use thin stainless steel plates. with neutral plates between the positive and negative plates like -NNN+ for greater production. when a 12V current is put through it the electrolysis creates the HHO gas from the water. its then pulled from the cell (mason jar) by the engines vacuum pressure through a hose. then it is put through a bubbler, much like a bong without the weed. it is used to capture any water vapour that is carried with the HHO gas. then its straight into a carburator where it is sent to the engine to be burned. giving you better fuel economy. some people are posting MPG gains of between 10% and 75% depending on the car, and how well your set-up works. im starting to build a small HHO generator to test this out. For EFI cars and trucks it is a little bit more difficult due to the MAP an o2 sensors. but there are solutions out for that aswell. I will post my results as soon as i can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unccpathfinder Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetmugg Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Perpetual Motion Machine. You cannot get more energy out of a system than you put in. SteveM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 I'm pretty sure it was Packie88 who set this up also, check for the thread... The Browns gas is simply meant as an efficiency assist, not run the car off of. Try to be open minded until you get all the details. B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slade420 Posted February 4, 2009 Author Share Posted February 4, 2009 I'm pretty sure it was Packie88 who set this up also, check for the thread... The Browns gas is simply meant as an efficiency assist, not run the car off of. Try to be open minded until you get all the details. B Yes, your right, it is ment to assist the gas. i guess calling it a hybrid in the thread sub-title wasn't descriptive enough. im glad to see some positive replys. P.S. DONT USE SALT FOR THE CATALYST. It creates chlorine gas. Also aluminum is not recomended for similar reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pezzy Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 http://www.nissanpathfinders.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=19002 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kittamaru Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Browns gas acts as a catalyst that helps increase the efficiency of the ICE's fuel/oxygen burn. Idea is you sacrifice a little bit of electrical power (thus straining the alternator a little more and thus decreasing fuel mileage) for a large increase in ICE efficiency, more than enough to compensate for the added power draw. Lookup HHOTech... I'll post a link once I get home Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetmugg Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Can anyone provide a link to any legitimate, independent (i.e. university level) research that indicates any of this HHO generation / Brown's gas stuff is anything OTHER than a scam? If such research is out there, I haven't been able to find it. Please post a link to any research performed by a website that ends in .edu Anecdotal evidence provided by people who are trying to sell plans or equipment doesn't impress me. I will keep an open mind, but I will also keep the experience and engineering knowledge I've gained over the past 40 years. Please - somebody point me to some university type research that proves the feasibility of HHO generators under the hoods of cars. SteveM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 I will keep an open mind, but I will also keep the experience and engineering knowledge I've gained over the past 40 years. Fair enough. I'd never expect you to disregard your experience or knowledge, merely suspend disbelief. I seem to remember reading a research study about this, but I can not remember who directed or authored it. If it is not linked in the other thread (link provided by Pezzy), I'll see if I can find it. B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrailChaser Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Go look in my thread that Pezzy posted a link to. My prediction is that you will hit a brick wall at the ECU unless you know how to remap on the fly... If you had a carbed engine the cell I built would work great. I can almost run my lawnmower engine off the HHO my cell kicks out. If you get the cell to produce enough gas then heat build-up becomes your problem. If I link together 3 more cells like the one I have now I could use it as a cutting torch. It works, I'm just not dedicated/smart enough to make it work on my pathy.(not the way I expect anyway) My pathy didn't get better fuel mileage, but it did make the engine virtually silent after a few minutes of driving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrailChaser Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 And don't forget to wire your relay to the ignition so it turns off when the engine is off... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Go look in my thread that Pezzy posted a link to. Sorry Bud, I remembered wrong, it was you, not packie88... Yeah, that was the exploding canister... B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleurys Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 (edited) My prediction is that you will hit a brick wall at the ECU unless you know how to remap on the fly... If you had a carbed engine the cell I built would work great. I can almost run my lawnmower engine off the HHO my cell kicks out. you're right... the ecu works mainly from the results of the o2 sensors... between 0.2 (lean) to 0.8 (rich) volts... since you replace part of the air with hho gas, therefore needing less fuel. now if you don't change anything, the exhaust gasses will be leaner. The o2 sensor will report it, then the ecu will react by lenghtening the time the injectors are open...therefore putting more fuel in the mix. this can easily be circumvent by making the ecu think that the exhaust gasses are actually too rich.. for this, you need to build a small electrical booster where you change the voltage by .1 volts. This will be like running the mix at less the 14:1 (stoic).. so if the o2 send .02, you intercept this data, add by 0.1 or more and send the changed data to the ecu... By doing this, you need to monitor the ict (internal cylinder temp)... But it has be proven that hho will actually help in reducing the temp of the cylinder because the result of the explosion of hho is water vapor , which will help absorb heat. anyway... this is another of my side project... I got alot more.... have a look at stanley meyer on you tube..you'll see that his invention has been replicated by ravi and dave lawton.. this guy did it fully running on water before being poisoned.... his brother started a company in canada with his technology http://xogen.ca ... were not talking high current here, but very high voltage and low amp combined with resonance... just a matter of time before my patty make 50 miles/gallon.... can you image, a pathfinder making more mile/gallon than an honda civic... Edited February 5, 2009 by fleurys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetmugg Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 you'll see that his invention has been replicated by ravi and dave lawton.. this guy did it fully running on water before being poisoned.... I call BS. An engine fully running on water, used to power an electrolytic cell, that in turn keeps the engine running by the products of electrolysis... That is the definition of a perpetual motion machine. Bottle that and you have just solved the earth's energy crisis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetmugg Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 As a factual matter, Stanley Meyer was found guilty of Gross and Egregious Fraud in a court of law due to all of the false claims he made related to the "fuel cell" he was promoting (and fleecing investors along the way). "The Man" was not keeping Stanley Meyer down. It was the laws of physics and thermodynamics that held him back. SteveM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleurys Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 i understand what you're saying...i'll just end up with this... do your research thoroughly and don't base yourself on what it looked like...it was not electrolysis in the strict term...you're right this has been proven that it takes more enery that it can create... I<ve research for more than 2 years this... I can understand why you feel this way... Do you know the circomstance of his death? with who he was and talking about what at the time. Did you see his dunebuggy? do you know what happened to it the week after his death ? ever looked at the xogen black box (that is patented)...wonder why they use it now to purify sewer water instead of using it in the auto industry ? find what happened in court when he tried to demonstrate his cell...you'll understand why he was declared guilty.. I can go on and on.... search for RAVI and dave lawton... do your homework first.... find what heppened to this ravi guy in india when he tried to contact dave lawton by email... things are not always what they seem....and please don't give me that thing were "they would talked about it in the newspaper and tv if it would exist).... think first what it would happened to the world economy if we did not need petrol anymore... I knew I should not have get into this thread, but just could not resist...it's ok...i'll stop here..better for me...but i encourage you , really , to do you own real deep research...not just what you find on official released documentation... get into forums where there is people that actually knew stanley. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FUELER Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 hah i had a buddy that was telling me this. he filled a cylinder with water and had some home made contraption with electrodes all soldered in, hooked up a 12v auto batt and the water started foaming and then he held up a lighter (the long kitchen type) and it made a loud *POP* so hes tellin me the dude who discovered that was killed by the government... but im thinkin.... we would have seen it in use by now if it was feasible, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrailChaser Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 As a factual matter, Stanley Meyer was found guilty of Gross and Egregious Fraud in a court of law due to all of the false claims he made related to the "fuel cell" he was promoting (and fleecing investors along the way). "The Man" was not keeping Stanley Meyer down. It was the laws of physics and thermodynamics that held him back. SteveM. That's true, but it happens like that all the time with all kinds of inventions... Investors get cold feet and want $$$ back that has obviously been spend on R&D... Doesn't really say much about the inventor or the invention. It just says that he had typical investors who were impatient. Thousands of people are falsely convicted every year because the court system is FAR from perfect. The courts are in no way qualified to decide on scientific cases to determine whether or not they are "real". Don't forget the investor are rich people who have lots of political influence when it comes to stuff like this. Not to mention high dollar lawyers who and "make things happen in court." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetmugg Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 I, for one, am a lot less concerned about what happens in a court room or in the court of public opinion than I am about what happens in a laboratory or under the hood of a car. There have been conspiracy theories about all kinds of events through history (Model T carburetor that gets 200 mpg, Holocaust denial, assassination of JFK, man landing on the moon, 9/11 bombings, etc.) The coroner's report (I know, I know, the coroner must have been in on the oil company's conspiracy also) determined that Stanley Meyer died of some kind of brain aneurism, not poisoning by Big oil. Let's try to restrict this discussion to factual matters. If someone can simply point to some valid scientific research, or a true working model of a "car that runs on water", then the future will be very bright. To date, no one has produced any such research, and has not driven their car across the country on a little bit of gasoline and a whole lot of water. If these HHO enthusiasts have done it before, it shouldn't be too hard to do again, correct? Surely there are universities all over the globe working on this issue if it has the potential to create energy from the dissociation of water. Somebody please point us to one of their research papers. (Rant over) SteveM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slade420 Posted February 5, 2009 Author Share Posted February 5, 2009 Surely there are universities all over the globe working on this issue if it has the potential to create energy from the dissociation of water. Somebody please point us to one of their research papers. (Rant over) SteveM. Here you go, http://www.panaceauniversity.org/Hydroxy%20Boosters.pdf page 3... Next time try using google, it took me literally 2 minutes to find this. sometimes i think people who dont want to accept the facts, go out of their way not to be informed, as the old saying goes "ignorance is bliss" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrailChaser Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 (edited) Check out this video I edited and put up on youtube... name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src=" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>" wmode="transparent" style="width:400px; height:326px;" id="VideoPlayback" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" flashvars=""> I know it doesn't prove or disprove anything, I just thought you guys would find it interesting. Edited February 5, 2009 by TrailChaser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 If someone can simply point to some valid scientific research, or a true working model of a "car that runs on water", I think this is where a lot of people get stuck. This isn't about driving 1000 miles on 1 gallon of gas and 20 gallons of water, it is about improving the efficiency of the combustion by a percentage by adding a little bit of HHO . B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetmugg Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 Here you go, http://www.panaceauniversity.org/Hydroxy%20Boosters.pdf page 3... Next time try using google, it took me literally 2 minutes to find this. sometimes i think people who dont want to accept the facts, go out of their way not to be informed, as the old saying goes "ignorance is bliss" Puh-lease. Panacea U? Good Ol' PU? What kind of accredited degrees do they offer? NONE. That is not a real University. Try to find one that ends in .edu SteveM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrailChaser Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 In Japan they have a few working models, and youtube has a bad habit of removing the videos that get too popular. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1OWDcWoXHs...feature=related University of Cassino, Italy, June 26-29, 1995, a group of scientists from the University of Birmingham, UK, presented a study about hydrogen as a fraction of the fuel. In the abstract of that study it stated: “Hydrogen, when used as a fractional additive at extreme lean engine operation, yields benefits in improved combustion stability and reduced nitrogen oxides and hydrocarbon emissions.” In the early eighties George Vosper P. Eng., ex-professor of Dynamics and Canadian inventor, designed and patented a device to transform internal combustion engines to run on hydrogen. He later affirms: “A small amount of hydrogen added to the air intake of a gasoline engine would enhance the flame velocity and thus permit the engine to operate with leaner air to gasoline mixture than otherwise possible. The result, far less pollution with more power and better mileage.” In 1995, Wagner, Jamal and Wyszynski, at the Birmingham, of University Engineering, Mechanical and Manufacturing>, demonstrated the advantages of “Fractional addition of hydrogen to internal combustion engines by exhaust gas fuel reforming.” The process yielded benefits in improved combustion stability and reduced nitrogen oxides and hydrocarbon emissions. California Environmental Engineering (CEE) has tested this technology and found reduction on all exhaust emissions. They subsequently stated: “CEE feels that the result of this test verifies that this technology is a viable source for reducing emissions and fuel consumption on large diesel engines.” The American Hydrogen Association Test Lab tested this technology and proved that: “Emissions test results indicate that a decrease of toxic emissions was realized.” Again, zero emissions were observed on CO. Northern Alberta Institute of Technology. Vehicle subjected to dynamometer loading in controlled conditions showed drastic reduction of emissions and improved horsepower. Corrections Canada tested several systems and concluded, “The hydrogen system is a valuable tool in helping Corrections Canada meet the overall Green Plan by: reducing vehicle emissions down to an acceptable level and meeting the stringent emissions standard set out by California and British Columbia; reducing the amount of fuel consumed by increased mileage.” Additionally, their analysis pointed out that this solution is the most cost effective. For their research they granted the C.S.C. Environmental Award. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kittamaru Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 Can anyone provide a link to any legitimate, independent (i.e. university level) research that indicates any of this HHO generation / Brown's gas stuff is anything OTHER than a scam? If such research is out there, I haven't been able to find it. Please post a link to any research performed by a website that ends in .edu Anecdotal evidence provided by people who are trying to sell plans or equipment doesn't impress me. I will keep an open mind, but I will also keep the experience and engineering knowledge I've gained over the past 40 years. Please - somebody point me to some university type research that proves the feasibility of HHO generators under the hoods of cars. SteveM. I can't post proof here, but I did see this thing in action. At the PA State Farm show, I think it was 2 years ago, they had a prototype system. Used two LARGE bubbler catalyst units and had a fuel flow monitor and another meter that showed the RPM's of the engine and temperature of the engine. They showed it running on plain fuel and then engaged the HHO system - for starters you could SEE the gas bubbling thru their... I guess bubbler?... tanks. It was impressive how much was produced. They let it build up for a bit, then allowed the HHO to mix. The fuel use immediately dropped by a fair amount... maybe 1-2%% or so. THEN they spoofed the ECU and were able to pull back the fuel use to around 10% of the original value. The temperature, sound, and rpm of the engine stayed constant... so I'm assuming they were modifying the O2 sensor value (makes sense because if HHO burns cleaner and releases oxygen when it burns, the O2 sensor would try to compensate and dump more fuel into the engine, right?) They had a second setup that was much smaller to demonstrate how little the resistance on the motor increases using their system - it didn't seem to make much of a difference TBH, but again - this was a much more basic system from a few years ago. Now, they DID say this was still experimental and they were working on a version that would work in a car or truck... but I haven't gone to the farm show the last few years due to school and work So who knows *shrugs* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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