lgranch Posted August 4, 2004 Share Posted August 4, 2004 I take some pride in the ability to diagnois problems, but at this time I am baffled. I was driving on Interstate 90 at 70 MPH. Everything was going well and I had done this for the past month with no trouble. I started to hear a rattle (metal to metal) over the radio. By the time I could turn the radio off the rattle had gotten very loud and then the engine died. This all took about 15 seconds. I coasted (this is important) off the road and up an exit ramp. When I can to a stop I tried to restart the engine and it was siezed tight. The starter just clicks. ( Battery is new). When the tow truck showed it was a wheel lift type. It pick the front end put the tranny and the transfer case in neutral and tried to move. The rear wheels were locked up. The tow tried to push it backwards and the rears were locked in that direction also. He called for a flatbed. While I was waiting I tried to start the engine and it was still locked up, even with the tranny and the transfer case in neutral :oops: The flatbed tow showed up and the pulled the Pathy up and then the rear wheels turned free But the engine was still locked :eek: Ok if the engine lost a rod why did the rears lock up. I am ruling out a mainbearing because of the rattle of metal to metal. I have had a truck loose a main bearing before and this sound was total different. If the tranny blew up , why did the rears lock with the transfer case in neutral? and why did it lock the motor? If the differential blew why was the engine locked with the transfer case in neutral? My guess at this time is the tranny fragmented and locked the ring gear in place with fragments. it could be something stupidly simple like the starter tried to engage by shorting out and locked the motor, but then why did the rears lock? The big pile would be that the motor, tranny and diff all went at once. The one area on the Pathy I do not have much knowledge about is the transfer case. On many domestic 4 wheels the trasnfer case is chain drive. Is this the Pathy also. If the transfer case broke then maybe both ends would lock??. To be clear the rattle sounds like it was coming from the bell housing, but remember I only heard it for 15 seconds. All idea and things to examine will be appreciated. :sniff: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k9sar Posted August 4, 2004 Share Posted August 4, 2004 I guess I'd start by pulling the oil plug and the tranny plug and looking for metal. If nothing there, I'd try to turn the motor by hand (not the starter) and see if the motor is seized. Next, I'd pull the starter and look at the flywheel. Could it be possible that the starter tried to engage at high speed and ate itself on the flywheel causing parts to get caught in the housing and lock the tranny and the motor together? This would definately make some noise in the bell housing and I have heard of it happening before (though only once in my lifetime). If all this checks out (and you can bench-test your starter at the same time), I'd then look to unbolt the housing and slip the tranny back to see if anything bad has happened in there. Each time you take something apart, you should check to see you have movement in the motor, tranny, drive shaft, etc. You could then gradually isolate what's happening and continue to disassemble based on where the problem still exists. Definately not a main bearing though. That would sound like a hammer on your engine block as the thing got looser and looser on the crankshaft. (been there also). Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88pathoffroad Posted August 4, 2004 Share Posted August 4, 2004 Interesting. I would suspect the transmission first, then the transfer case...dunno. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmcardamone Posted August 4, 2004 Share Posted August 4, 2004 Ok, i had the Same Exact Thing Happen to my D21 when i towed it. Did you ENSURE your Wheel Locks where Unlocked? I left the Sucker in Neutral on the Tranny, and Neutral on the xfer case. Apparently it didnt Like that, I looked and found that my Hubs were Locked and i was towing with a Dolly. so after unlocking the Hubs, the truck rolled Fine. Now i could guess that the truck rolled Fine onto the Flatbed cuz all wheels were turning, but i wouldnt Be surprized if similar happened here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lgranch Posted August 5, 2004 Author Share Posted August 5, 2004 About the hubs, these are auto hubs not manual ones. When the Pathy made to my home the rear wheels now are free, but the engine is still stuck. Thursday evening I will start to disassemble the parts and see what I have. ANY OFFERS ON A ROLLING CHASSIS??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmcardamone Posted August 5, 2004 Share Posted August 5, 2004 I have a "spare" Engine Here... Hehe. its from an 88. what year is your "chassis" and where are you located. I might be intrested...... I also might be willing to sell the Extra Engine....cheap.... Im broke! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatterHorn Posted August 5, 2004 Share Posted August 5, 2004 you got your work cut out for you man ... keep us updated on your progress ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k9sar Posted August 5, 2004 Share Posted August 5, 2004 you got your work cut out for you man ... keep us updated on your progress ... definately let us know what you find and how. This may help someone in the future if they have a similar situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lgranch Posted August 5, 2004 Author Share Posted August 5, 2004 to jmcardamone- the chassis is a 91. I am located in the Cleveland area. I would be interested in the potnetial of an engine, but I want to wait to verify that the problem is the motor. I will try to take pictures of the damage as I find it. :type: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lgranch Posted August 6, 2004 Author Share Posted August 6, 2004 I am a person who seems to like abuse so here goes. I now offer you forum friends and associates the opportunity to say LGRANCH is a dumbA$$. As I am dissasmbling the motor it is no obvious that the motor lost oil pressure. How could I let that happen? Well there was no warning light, I have no pressure gage and I kept putting off installing one because there were other things to do. While I do not have the motor completely apart yet, it has only been 2 days and I do have to go to work, it looks like the ticking noise that I always assumed was broken exhaust studs was NOT. I now believe that it was the quietest rod bearing knock that I have ever heard. I have discovered that a used engine will cost me at least $500 in this area. An "inspected" used engine will cost me $1000. I have not found a rebuild kit that includes a crank shaft. I only found one that includes rods and bearings. This is a 91 and the value of the vehicle in running condition is only around $1500. So when you are all done calling me names, does anyone know where I can get a good crank for a VG30E. If not I may buy a $500 used engine and go through it fixing the problems. I still do not know why the rear wheels locked when the tow truck tried to recover the pathy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k9sar Posted August 6, 2004 Share Posted August 6, 2004 I feel your pain. When I spun the bearings on my last VG30E, I went the cheapskate route and dropped the pan etc to get at it to do the work myself (being 4wd, there was lots of crap to remove to get the oil pan off). I checked the crank shaft and there was absolutely no scoring on it. I checked the thickness and it had not worn any significant amount. In fact, there was no difference between where the bearing had spun and where the good bearings were. Naturally, I assumed my crankshaft was still good. That's some hard metal so you may be ok there. I checked the connecting rod and found that the little hole that shoots oil up into the cylinder had gotten clogged wioth metal shavings. I drilled that out without much difficulty (tiny hand drill and lots of patience). I bought new bearings at something like $3 each and replaced the entire set. Since my crank shaft measured close to original spec, I chose not to get the thicker bearings that you would need if you had your shaft machined (perhaps I should rephrase that ) Anyway, I made the mistake of not replacing the bearing caps on the connecting rod. Apparetly, this is what got worn when it spun. Now, I can argue that, since the bearing attaches to the cap and does not move (or is not supposed to), there was no reason to think it would be worn. There did not appear to be any scoring on the surface etc but I should have replaced everything that touched the problem area. Upon reassembly, I fired her up and all was well.... until... there was this little tapping sound. Over a few weeks, it got worse and worse and I realized what was happening. With the little looseness that was introduced when I spun the bearing, the new ones were now being hammered flat with each firing in the piston chamber. If I still have the bearings, I'll post a pic but it was obvious what had happened. I decided not to fool around anymore so I bought a "guaranteed to work" engine with only 80K on it for $750. (The pathy had been rearended by a semi so there was no damage to the front at all.) A long weekend and lots of cussin later, I had new life in my pathy. As for the 'value' of your 91... think of it this way... It's not valued at what the insurance company says or what NADA says, it's valued at what it would cost to get something comparable to replace it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lgranch Posted August 6, 2004 Author Share Posted August 6, 2004 True enough about the value of the Pathy, however at some point you have to determine that the cost of the repair will increase the current value of the vehicle by the cost of the repair. Don't put a $2000 rebuilt motor into a 91 Pathy, it is not worth the cost. (generaly). If I could make it to NJ there is a 92 for sale with a blown tranny for $500. Even if I did follow up with this the problem is where I live I could not store the shell when I was done, or even while I was working on it. That is a problem in residental areas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lgranch Posted August 8, 2004 Author Share Posted August 8, 2004 OK GUYS and gals I do not feel so bad about not knowing that my Pathy lost oil pressure. The wire lead was off of the sensor when I started taking the motor apart. IT DID NOT FAIL SAFE. With the sensor disconnected there was NO warning on the dash. This is something that everyone needs to KNOW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diesel Boy Posted August 8, 2004 Share Posted August 8, 2004 There was enough oil in the sump then??? Going to be very interesting to know what the cause turns out to be!!! Trouble with lights especially and gauges to, if the light comes on while driving, its already to late, like wise with a gauge, except that you might pick up a change in pressure characteristics before it lets go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmcardamone Posted August 8, 2004 Share Posted August 8, 2004 Hey Soon may be your Lucky day. Im Heading out to Champlain Il, to see Phill at L&P. On the way is Columbus OH. I got that Extra Motor if you want it. its missing a few things Now (ie TBI, DISTRIB), but the Heads and Block and Driveplate are all there. You can Use it for the crank. If i Get my Pickup truck done Here in the Next week, woudl you be Intrested in the Motor for say 200 Bucks plus 50 bucks for Delivery? Ill drive it out to where you are and drop it in your driveway when i head out there. This is only if i get my Pickup Done in time. Let me know! Thanks! Joe joe@cmsolutionspa.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonesyUSN Posted August 19, 2004 Share Posted August 19, 2004 ok so i have this slight knock or ping.. when i put a higher octane it kind of cures it.. would that be nearly the same problem you had? cus now im worried Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k9sar Posted August 19, 2004 Share Posted August 19, 2004 have you checked your timing lately? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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