starter woes

[schickdog]

hello all. 1st post. This is kinda long but it should be a great read. I love my truck but i am about to blow it up. I have an 88 xev6 4wd with 210K on it. It's just a great little beater and don't want to get rid of it but its been giving me some problems and i am at wits end trying to figure it out. Here goes...

 

So a year ago, it started leaving me stranded with the dead/dying-battery-but-its-really-the-starter play. It would wind down like the dying battery, but it would start with a smack to the starter. So i replace the starter and no probs till now. Same presentation, the truck would just start turning over slower and slower day by day until it just turns 2 or 3 times slow, then clicks. nor would it turn over with the ol' starter-smack manuever. I pull the battery, have it tested, and its good. * it is a walmart Neverstart (i have not entirely ruled out a BS "battery's good" verdict). the battery also is at 12.2 volts. (rated 750 cca) I pull the 6 month old starter and put in another new one, just for giggles and because i like doing the same hard job twice. I put it all back together, and same freaking problem, the truck turns over like a dying battery, relegating itself to some pseudo-clicks. Read: clicks, multiple, not the typical single "clunk" starters give with a real-deal dead battery. Also, the battery had been on a trickle charger for 18 hours.

 

So, I pull another battery from my hotrod, i know is good, same deal. starter spins real slow, then clicks. Figure this one out. i put the battery back into the hot rod (03 mustang gt), start the hot rod, and then jump my pathy. still spins slow, but a touch faster. truck starts and runs great. the same battery 12.2 volts off now reads 8.6 to 9.7 volts at terminals witht the truck running. Dammit. So i disconnect the battery witht the pathy running and the pathy dies instantly. hook cables back up, starts no prob (but slow), I figure it's gotta be the alternator, but all the electronics work fine and headlights are bright. Well, i pull the alternator and low and behold, the black wire to the "bat" post is corroded and completely breaks once i touch it. Gotta be the problem, right? Wrong.

 

Here's my first question. on the back of the alternator, it's got the plug in clip with 2 wires, that's in good shape and i also checked/cleaned the connection upstream from that, you know, the one by the air induction valve system. Dont even get me started on emissions testing and the retardness of imposing 2008 standards on a 1988 vehicle, but i digress. So, the plug, connections, are good. there is also the obligitory post for the black wire back to the battery. BUT, there is a black wire coming out of what looks like a capacitor. There was also a screw into the alternator housing with a stamped "E" next to it. When i yanked it, there was a black wire Oring connected to that screw/alt body, and that was run to the frame, so i assume that was supposed to be a ground. So, was that the ground? the black wire out of the capacitor thingy? The reason i ask is after i have the alternator tested/replaced, i want to know how to rewire what needs rewiring. Obviously, reclip the clip, battery wire to the "Bat" post, and then am i done? or do i need to run a ground wire? Ahhh i'm so frustrated.

 

So, my to do list is

 

1. check the battery at another establishment

2. test the alternator

 

second question... What else?

 

Also, the battery terminals are clean, corrosion free, scraped... negative ground is good, directly to the block...

[Precise1]

How is the negative cable connection at the ground end (block or body)? Do you have a fusable link on the Positive cable?

I'm no help with the alternator wiring...

 

B

[jj big shoe]

I don't think you need a ground on the alt., but it should have one. I noticed mine was missing recently, had been for at least a year w/o problems.

I think I just solved my intermittent starter problem recently when I found that my positive battery cable was damaged. No real marks on the insulation, but the copper inside was corroded and brittle in a spot midway down, go figure. The starter wasn't getting enough juice half the time and would just click once. Try hooking a meter to the starter solenoid and see if it reads the same at the battery post when starting. That might tell you something.

 

God, I hate electrical problems. Good luck with it.

[Mr. Pickles]

Ditto on the battery cables, and various ignition wiring. They can rot out and just plain die. I went through hell last year over starting issues, and I even had a new starter that checked out fine (took out to test and verify) and a 6 month old battery. I ended up replacing the starter (the existing one failed, and a new warranty starter worked but didn't do the trick). I ended up re-wiring the starting circuit, piece by piece, which really isn't hard at all once you look at it. Ground to block, + to harness and starter, then wiring to solenoid. I finally narrowed it to the circuit to the ignition switch in the steering column, which I hacked in at the switch in the column to bypass with a new wire, and called it good. Its a process of elimination, figure out what isn't working, then go from there...

Edited July 23, 2008 by Mr. Pickles

[schickdog]

the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over but expecting different results. well, insanity was aplenty. after pullling the battery, testing good twice and 2 different locations, pulling the starter, alternator, swapping batteries, and going over the whole wiring harness, the pathy would start everytime with the battery from the other car.

 

So i went and bought a Diehard battery and that fixed everything.

 

Oh ya, F Walmart. Peace out.

[mws]

Oh ya, F Walmart. Peace out.

 

 

Ahhh, you speak with newfound wisdom, grasshopper.

 

 

A little inside information:

The batteries that Exide makes for Wal-Mart are of significantly poorer design, materials, and quality than those they make for others. Upon Satan-Marts request. After all, the only thing that matters is price, right? Exide makes at least 4 quality levels of battery, with Satan-Marts version at the bottom, and the ones labeled Bosch/NASCRAP Extreme/Exide Marathon at the top. The Autozone Dura-Last is about a level 3, not quite the best, but way better than the really cheap ones.