SAS and gears

[BOKER420]

I searched forever to find out more about this but couldn't find much. I have a 1995 Pathy SE.

 

What gear ratio to i have in my differentials? I was also wondering what is the most compatable axle to swap out in the front. If I put in a solid axle could I change my rear gears to match the front or would i have to change the front to match the rear? I plan on doing an engine swap later so I want to swap out the rear gears if I can. Also what width axle do I need. I've read that a pathy rearend is pretty strong so I'm going to leave that alone.

thanks for the help.

[FLApathy]

ur on the wrong forum for that, try nissan4wheelers.org

 

 

i can answer some of ur questions though

 

What gear ratio to i have in my differentials?

ok, ur going to have to check out the mfg plate to find that out, theres 2 ratios, look on the pass fender under the hood up by the fire wall, should say "axle" then will say something like, 46hg or hg46, if it says that you have 4.63 gears, or it will be 43hg or hg43, thats 4.37 ration

(oh if its not there, try ur drivers side door jamb right below the nader pin thingy)

 

 

I was also wondering what is the most compatable axle to swap out in the front.

you can use an axle outta 88 grand waggy or a 78 bronco, again check that website i post up at the top, those axles are the most popular though

 

 

If I put in a solid axle could I change my rear gears to match the front or would i have to change the front to match the rear?

 

thats up to you, its expensive to buy gears for a nissan axle, but worth it, but either way you would have to match them

 

Also what width axle do I need

 

if i recall the rear is 53 inchs WMS to WMS, again on that website theres a list of a lot of axles

 

I've read that a pathy rearend is pretty strong so I'm going to leave that alone.

 

oh yes, its called an H233B, H stands for Hitachi, 233 is the ring gear size in MM, that translates to 9.17 inchs, its a very very strong axle

 

 

thanks for the help.

 

no problem, i just found this thread, im surprised nobody has responeded yet, good luck with everything

[FLApathy]

oh i see this was posted today, lol, i thought it was old

 

 

 

heres that website again N4W

[88pathoffroad]

IIRC, a Waggy axle is 63" wide. I may remember wrong.

 

Read the build plate inside your engine compartment, it's under the fender on the passenger's side. The Axle Code will be HG43(4.375:1) or HG46(4.625:1), like FLApathy said.

 

New gears for the rear axle are around $500 a set, just so you know.

[BOKER420]

hey thanks a lot. The info was very helpful. It's nice to see a forum where people actually help with responses.

[Slick]

hey thanks a lot. The info was very helpful. It's nice to see a forum where people actually help with responses.

what? us... helpful you got the wrong place buddy -alcohol-

 

 

 

 

kidding! yeah..these guys are awesome! -bounce-

[BOKER420]

ok these are probably more stupid questions but I just looked up what gears are on the wagoneer and the bronco and found out they are 3.92:1. Then I went to AC's websit to see if they had a matching set for my rearend. They only go down to 4.11:1. I found out mine is 4.625:1. Also I went to calmini's site to see what they had and they sell a transfer case gear set.

 

My questions are Do you need to change the gears in the transfer case too? And is 4.11:1 really going to make a difference in horspower and torque gain? And do they make gears for a pathy that are in the 3's or would that bust your axle or something?

 

By the way the lower the number ratio the faster the wheels turn right? I'm sure transfer case gears are altogether different but calmini says that their 3.92:1 gear set for the transfer case is for rock crawling. Wouldn't you want a high ratio like in the 5's for rock crawling?

 

Thanks again to whoever helps my unmechaniceducated self out.

Bill

Edited April 11, 2006 by BOKER420

[FLApathy]

ok these are probably more stupid questions but I just looked up what gears are on the wagoneer and the bronco and found out they are 3.92:1. Then I went to AC's websit to see if they had a matching set for my rearend. They only go down to 4.11:1. I found out mine is 4.625:1. Also I went to calmini's site to see what they had and they sell a transfer case gear set.

 

My questions are Do you need to change the gears in the transfer case too? And is 4.11:1 really going to make a difference in horspower and torque gain? And do they make gears for a pathy that are in the 3's or would that bust your axle or something?

 

By the way the lower the number ratio the faster the wheels turn right? I'm sure transfer case gears are altogether different but calmini says that their 3.92:1 gear set for the transfer case is for rock crawling. Wouldn't you want a high ratio like in the 5's for rock crawling?

 

Thanks again to whoever helps my unmechaniceducated self out.

Bill

well, your going to have to match front and rear, i would go down to low gears, i would gear the front to the rear if you wanted to save money, but ur gear size all depends on ur tire size, and no you dont have to mess with tcase gears at all, in less you want to

 

 

to be honest with you, an SAS is a very expensive project, it takes alot of knowledge even if you have it done by a shop, if i were you i would seriuosly sit back and read up everywhere you can, i too would like to SAS one day and i have spent countless hours doing research, i wouldnt jump into just yet though and you should really check out N4W and 4x4parts.com, they are both all about nissans and have a ton of SAS stuff in there and have a ton of ppl who haved sas'd

[FLApathy]

oh and yeah, alot of the older american trucks had really high gears like that

[88pathoffroad]

You need to match the gears as closely as possible front and rear to keep the drivetrain from binding. It's a given that you'll have to re-gear the donor axle to match your existing rear, so 4.56 gears are as close as you're gonna get. The transfer case gears are totally separate, no need to mess with those unless you want a REALLY low crawl ratio.

[Mookie]

Hi,

 

What size of tires are you planning to run? That will help you determine your gear ratio for your diffs.

[BOKER420]

I already have 33/12.50 MT baja claw radials. I was hoping to gear it down so I would get more horsepower out of it. I've been reading on how 33's will wreck your steering system. I was thinking mine was just out of alignment but I jacked up my truc and there is a lot of play with the outer tie rods. I've already replaced the whole steering system once with stock parts and I really don't want to have to pay 540.00 for the calmini steering system especially because that still uses the stock outer tie rods. It there anything else I could do to beef up my steering system? I also already have the rancho steering stabilizer.

thanks,

Bill

[FLApathy]

www.lpperformance.com

 

 

410 dollars for a complete steering system, and yes ive seen TR's just snap on these trucks w/o steering, i highly recommend L&P

[BOKER420]

Why do they have a core charge? If I send in my stock stuff they can't modify them to re-sell. When i bought my replacement centerlink and tie rods Napa didn't even have a core charge. And these steering system look almost like stock. My problem isn't in the center link or the pitman/ idler arm its in the ball joints that are on the tie rod ends.

 

So with this steering upgrade I wouldn't have to worry about the tie rods getting loose? Why don't they make an aftermarket heavy duty outer tie rod?

thanks

[SC88Pathy]

Um yes they do remanufacture your stock centerlink into their centerlink. That's the reason for the core charge. Finding used centerlinks can be difficult for them, so you get charged if you don't send them your core. Also if your centerlink is buggered it's no use for them thus you get hit with a core charge.

 

As to why they don't have upgraded tie rods I don't know. However I haven't heard people having problems with the tie rods, the problems come from the centerlink and idler arm.

[BOKER420]

Yeah sorry i read about the centerlink after i posted that. It still seems crazy that they charge 300 some just for upgrading the joints in the centerlink.

[FLApathy]

yeah, you dont have problems with the TRE's after you upgrade all that, and yeah the cl is a lil high but they gotta make money some how, and im not even sure how much the new bearings cost them but still, im going to upgrade everything to L&P when i get the money

 

and yeah as for the core charge, they take ur stock stuff and modify them and then send it back to you

[Earth1]

Yeah sorry i read about the centerlink after i posted that. It still seems crazy that they charge 300 some just for upgrading the joints in the centerlink.

It's worth the cost. I have an LP CL and love it. Those ends are completely new with a new busing (not a ball joint) that allows a lot more movement without binding. That binding is probably what has caused your tie rods to bend outta whack. Those 33's don't help much either but that CL should help some.

 

I think there aren't any beefy tie rods because it's a Nissan. I've wondered why there aren't any too. Some guys have tried fabbing them up a little stronger, not sure about the results though.

 

Maybe I'm wrong here but won't a SAS change a lot of your steering alltogether? Maybe not, I really don't know much about the axle conversions. If your decide to do it good luck.

[BOKER420]

Yeah that's another thing. Does doing an SAS change your steering system? I'm sure it does so if I decided to do the SAS I would be wasting my money on the nissan steering upgrades. The problem is that my steering is in pretty bad shape and I don't have enough money to do the SAS yet, but I don't want to be driving down the road and have my steering break and roll my truck or whatever. I'm going to look around at the local junkyards and see if they have a 78 bronco or 88 waggy sitting around and maybe I can get the axle cheap.

 

It was cool when I was in the navy stationed in Norfolk VA there was a junkyard that had certain days of the year where you gave them 100.00 for anything you and a friend or 2 could carry out of the yard. It might have even been 50.00 or 75.00. Some people were breaking their backs carrying out engine blocks.

[Mookie]

Your steering will change if you do a sas. I'd get the upgraded steering and then have fun and wheel it. It's alot of money to sas. It's alot of truck time off the road to sas.

[Eli]

FYI: I'm down here at Moab Jeep Safari and just talked to the Calmini guys. They said the SAS for the Pathfinder with coil over front and radius arms will take 35" tires and be ready for production in 3 months.

 

So, as an example, if you have an SE-V6 with factory 31" tires and 4.625 gears, and want a similar ratio after the 35" tires, you'd run a 5.13 in the new Dana 44 front [(35"x4.625)/31"=5.22, but the largest gears available for the Dana 44 are 5.13 as far as I know]. In the rear factory H233B, you'd run 5.14 from Automotive Customizers (or another Nismo gear source). Might as well throw in some ARB air lockers while you're at it ;-)

[BOKER420]

Yeah and who else wants to jump on the dream wagon? My biggest problem is that I'm a college student making college students wages so I will have to save awhile to do that kind of change over. If I did the SAS it would be with leafs until I could afford and have the knowledge to do coilovers. That would be awesome to have coilovers in front.

Edited April 14, 2006 by BOKER420

[Lextronix]

Boker, I am in that exact same situation. College=No spare cash, This summer I am going to try and revamp alot of the steering components with L&P parts. Like Mookie said grab the steering upgrades and have fun. Wait to do a SAS until you have a good amount of excess cash and time. Why not grab a little gas miser for a daily driver and save the gas savings toward new pathy parts? That's what I'd like to do.

[Vsicks Pathy]

What can I say. Finally, it is easier to do something to a Pathy in Australia than in the USA. I never thought I'd see the day. I am talking about a live axle, and coiled to boot.

 

That aside, I am more interested in the engine swap side of this thread. Having swapped my 2.4ltr for a 3.8ltr, I may be able to give you some tips. My Pathy too has 4.625:1 ratios. There are actually 3 different diff ratios for the Pathy. 4.3x, 4.6x and 4.8x. This info might enable you to match a little more closely? The 4cyl Pathy and the 6cyl Pathy share the same ratios and box match ups regardless of 4cyl or 6.. When I fitted my 3.8ltr I lost the need to use first gear. Keep in mind I was still running stock 30" tyres. The difference in the torque of the two motors made first gear hit max rpm after about 1 second.

I have since put 33's on and it is a lot better. However, to achieve a proper aspect ratio, I will have to get 34's or 35's. The Pathy is notorious for poor fuel consumption. This is because it is underpowered and it is gearing is up the creek. This chart explains what I am talking about. Nissan had to wrongly gear Pathies because the engines they used are too gutless to pull a correct aspect ratio.

So, if you are going to swap the engine for something with more ponies, don’t bother changing ratios etc. just upsize your tyres.

[BOKER420]

Back to the steering talk. I told my dad about L&P's steering upgrades and he suggested why not just find a full size truck tie rod set that is a little bigger and beefier than the stock nissan stuff and then take the centerlink and drill out the hole to fit the full size truck tie rods. Ans then take the idler and pitman arms off and fab up some kind of U shaped metal piece to wrap around them and weld it up. That way you would have strengthened up the arms and would have tie rods that are strong enough for a fullsize truck which should handle 33's.

 

Or since there is soo much after market stuff for certain trucks you could buy a set of after market tie rods that you would normally put on a lifted truck. Using those guessing that they would be stronger then stock it would beef up the pathy steering even more.

 

This all said. I just can't get over how L&P can charge 300+ just for putting hevier duty ball joints in the centerlink. Modifing it at home and buying off the shelf tie rods from a full size truck would be cheaper if you go with an american truck and you could probably do this all with a drill press and hand drill. I still have my old centerlink from when I replaced my steering with stock stuff before so I'm going to try it out on that and see how it works.

 

If anyone actually reads this whole thing let me know if this has been done before and if it worked or if it hasn't been done then if you think it would work.

Thanks