Did the mechanic damage my CV joint?

[Pepo1]

Took my 97 Nissan Terrano QD32 for its Warrant Of Fitness (I'm in New Zealand). Mechanic said I needed a new LF shock as the old one was weeping fluid. On completion of the job, I drove it home and noticed a clunking noise. I naturally thought the mechanics didn't tighten up a bolt or something. So, I took it back and told them it was making a noise like the clunk when a CV joint goes. This was a major car jerking clunk mainly during a turn. Wouldn't you know it, the mechanic tells me the left front CV joint has gone. I thought this was way too coincidental especially as I had no prior indication whatsoever - no ticks, clinks and definitely no clunks. I asked him if he had to do any disassembly that could have impacted the CV joint and he said no, just a few simply bolts to remove the old shock. So my question is: Is there any way a CV joint can be damaged during the replacement of a shock absorber?

[R50JR]

7 hours ago, Pepo1 said:

Took my 97 Nissan Terrano QD32 for its Warrant Of Fitness (I'm in New Zealand). Mechanic said I needed a new LF shock as the old one was weeping fluid. On completion of the job, I drove it home and noticed a clunking noise. I naturally thought the mechanics didn't tighten up a bolt or something. So, I took it back and told them it was making a noise like the clunk when a CV joint goes. This was a major car jerking clunk mainly during a turn. Wouldn't you know it, the mechanic tells me the left front CV joint has gone. I thought this was way too coincidental especially as I had no prior indication whatsoever - no ticks, clinks and definitely no clunks. I asked him if he had to do any disassembly that could have impacted the CV joint and he said no, just a few simply bolts to remove the old shock. So my question is: Is there any way a CV joint can be damaged during the replacement of a shock absorber?

Tough to say. It is possible the mechanic let the knuckle droop outward too much during assembly/disassembly. That wouldn't necessarily cause the cv axle to fail but it's a possibility if the joint popped out. 

 

Do you have any modifications to your front suspension?

 

Do you notice the front end is higher (more lift) after the strut replacement?

 

Edited October 3, 2024 by R50JR

[Pepo1]

1 hour ago, R50JR said:

Tough to say. It is possible the mechanic let the knuckle droop outward too much during assembly/disassembly. That wouldn't necessarily cause the cv axle to fail but it's a possibility if the joint popped out. 

 

Do you have any modifications to your front suspension?

 

Do you notice the front end is higher (more lift) after the strut replacement?

 

Thanks, I've seen other forum posts where that exact thing has happened. Taking it up with the mechanic.

[R50JR]

3 hours ago, Pepo1 said:

Thanks, I've seen other forum posts where that exact thing has happened. Taking it up with the mechanic.

 

Did you actually read what I wrote or did you just want reassurance for something you had already decided?

 

I asked you two specific questions that may help determine what could have happened. Before you go blame your mechanic for something that may not have been his fault, maybe take the time to understand your vehicle and how these things work.

 

 

[Pepo1]

Of course I read it and have taken your points on board and will discuss with the mechanic. I haven't decided anything other than that. Your answer was basically "I don't know, but here's what I think". After I posted this question, I looked online to find other information and found that others had had similar problems to what you'd described. Of course I'm not going to just blame him.

In answer to your questions: 

• No mods to front suspension
• No noticeable higher lift

[Pepo1]

The CV joint has now completely separated.

 

[FirstGenFreak]

Inner or outer CV?

You shouldn't hear the CV regardless unless you are driving in 4H or 4L and your hubs are locked. 

Should not need to interfere with the CV to replace a shocker, but there are some hack mechanics out there. 

[hawairish]

19 hours ago, Pepo1 said:

Of course I read it and have taken your points on board and will discuss with the mechanic. I haven't decided anything other than that. Your answer was basically "I don't know, but here's what I think". After I posted this question, I looked online to find other information and found that others had had similar problems to what you'd described. Of course I'm not going to just blame him.

In answer to your questions: 

• No mods to front suspension
• No noticeable higher lift

 

Ha, don't worry about that R50JR guy.  He's just bitter because he doesn't get to drive his R50 often enough.

 

The reason for the ask about any suspension mods is because strut spacers can be bad on the CVs if there's too much spacer.  He's just wondering if that could have been a contributor.  Doesn't sound like it.

 

14 hours ago, Pepo1 said:

The CV joint has now completely separated.

 

 

That's no good.

 

13 hours ago, FirstGenFreak said:

Inner or outer CV?

You shouldn't hear the CV regardless unless you are driving in 4H or 4L and your hubs are locked. 

Should not need to interfere with the CV to replace a shocker, but there are some hack mechanics out there. 

 

I'm assuming it's the same in NZ as it was here in the US, but R50s had drive slugs/fixed flanges, and not manual or automatic hubs.  So, the CVs are always engaged unless they've been swapped.  And in this case, the "shock" (actually, it's a strut) technically does not interfere with the CV, however there's no upper control arm that prevents the knuckle assembly from tipping outward when the strut is removed.  Only things that would be attached would be the tie-rod, CV, and lower ball joint.  If the mechanic pulled the strut off the knuckle and let it drop, it would "stretch" it to its fully-extended length and shock the CV, most likely damaging the bearing cage in the outer joint (and potentially the ball joint, too).  This is also to say that when the strut is removed and the knuckle assembly is allowed to tip outward, even gently (potentially even when tipping it out to remove the strut), it puts strain on the CV and lower ball joint, and so, it should always be supported when the strut is not attached.

 

My main question is: why would the mechanic have needed to remove the strut if he suspected a leak and wasn't planning to replace them at the time?  The only leak point would be at the top of the strut body, and the only obstruction would be the dust boot, which can be slid up with a screwdriver through the spring coils or is usually disintegrated.  You would have visibility of any leak just by lifting the truck off the ground, I would think.  Dust/grime would be present on the shaft and where it enters the body.  Removing it would be unnecessary.  What other services were being performed?

[Pepo1]

19 hours ago, FirstGenFreak said:

Inner or outer CV?

You shouldn't hear the CV regardless unless you are driving in 4H or 4L and your hubs are locked. 

Should not need to interfere with the CV to replace a shocker, but there are some hack mechanics out there. 

It's the outer CV joint. Yeah, I thought if I took it out of "Auto" (a sort of partial 4WD) which I usually keep it at, then it wouldn't impact the CV and at least I could drive it around. But I think the damage is already done now with the joint now completely separated.

 

This R50 has a shock that looks like below. I might be wrong, but I think you do have to release the spindle/hub to install it.

 

[Pepo1]

5 hours ago, hawairish said:

 

Ha, don't worry about that R50JR guy.  He's just bitter because he doesn't get to drive his R50 often enough.

 

The reason for the ask about any suspension mods is because strut spacers can be bad on the CVs if there's too much spacer.  He's just wondering if that could have been a contributor.  Doesn't sound like it.

 

 

That's no good.

 

 

I'm assuming it's the same in NZ as it was here in the US, but R50s had drive slugs/fixed flanges, and not manual or automatic hubs.  So, the CVs are always engaged unless they've been swapped.  And in this case, the "shock" (actually, it's a strut) technically does not interfere with the CV, however there's no upper control arm that prevents the knuckle assembly from tipping outward when the strut is removed.  Only things that would be attached would be the tie-rod, CV, and lower ball joint.  If the mechanic pulled the strut off the knuckle and let it drop, it would "stretch" it to its fully-extended length and shock the CV, most likely damaging the bearing cage in the outer joint (and potentially the ball joint, too).  This is also to say that when the strut is removed and the knuckle assembly is allowed to tip outward, even gently (potentially even when tipping it out to remove the strut), it puts strain on the CV and lower ball joint, and so, it should always be supported when the strut is not attached.

 

My main question is: why would the mechanic have needed to remove the strut if he suspected a leak and wasn't planning to replace them at the time?  The only leak point would be at the top of the strut body, and the only obstruction would be the dust boot, which can be slid up with a screwdriver through the spring coils or is usually disintegrated.  You would have visibility of any leak just by lifting the truck off the ground, I would think.  Dust/grime would be present on the shaft and where it enters the body.  Removing it would be unnecessary.  What other services were being performed?

 I see. Yes, it's a full strut.   I drive it in partial 4WD (setting named "auto", designed to kick the car into 4WD when it encounters slippery etc terrain.

OK, so there a possibility the mechanic took the strut off the knuckle and it fully extended, potentially damaging the CV.

My plan is to take it to another mechanic to replace the CV and, in the process, check if the old CV had gradually worn leading to ultimate coincidental failure (which is the mechanic's view), or whether any damage is from a more direct or sudden impact consistent with what you've described

 

Thanks for your patience and help by the way.

 

[hawairish]

Sounds like you have the "older" all-mode system.  You have a dial with "2WD|AUTO|LOCK" but also have a "H|N|L" floor shifter?  Newer systems just had a dial switch "2WD|AUTO|4H|4L".  Not that it matters much here, only to note that even in those 2wd or auto modes, the CV still spins with the tires because the truck uses fixed flanges.  The switches and levers just disconnect things inside the transfer case.  CVs, differential, and driveshaft all still spinning.

 

All said, a broken CV sucks but is a fairly trivial and reasonably inexpensive fix.  Wear and tear doesn't usually lead to breakage, but sharp angles and contamination (torn boots) do.  Not ruling out coincidental damage because we don't have enough info (i.e., your vehicle's history, mileage, usage, maintenance, etc.), but generally, breakage usually stems from some amount of force or binding.  I've not had a problem resting the knuckle at a given angle with the CV attached, but I've also always made every effort to ease it into a resting position and eventually always support it.  I can also attest that getting struts off the knuckle can be a hassle.  Who's to say there wasn't extra force applied to pull the strut.

 

But again, why did he pull the strut in the first place to inspect it?  What service were you having done?  

 

 

[Pepo1]

7 hours ago, hawairish said:

Sounds like you have the "older" all-mode system.  You have a dial with "2WD|AUTO|LOCK" but also have a "H|N|L" floor shifter?  Newer systems just had a dial switch "2WD|AUTO|4H|4L".  Not that it matters much here, only to note that even in those 2wd or auto modes, the CV still spins with the tires because the truck uses fixed flanges.  The switches and levers just disconnect things inside the transfer case.  CVs, differential, and driveshaft all still spinning.

 

All said, a broken CV sucks but is a fairly trivial and reasonably inexpensive fix.  Wear and tear doesn't usually lead to breakage, but sharp angles and contamination (torn boots) do.  Not ruling out coincidental damage because we don't have enough info (i.e., your vehicle's history, mileage, usage, maintenance, etc.), but generally, breakage usually stems from some amount of force or binding.  I've not had a problem resting the knuckle at a given angle with the CV attached, but I've also always made every effort to ease it into a resting position and eventually always support it.  I can also attest that getting struts off the knuckle can be a hassle.  Who's to say there wasn't extra force applied to pull the strut.

 

But again, why did he pull the strut in the first place to inspect it?  What service were you having done?  

 

 

It was just a yearly Warrant of Fitness check. Apparently you can't have any fluid weeping out of a strut, which I understand I guess. It wasn't dripping or oozing, the strut just had some damp oil-stained dirt on it. He wasn't going to pass the vehicle unless it was replaced. I protested, as you do, but need the car for work so just told him to go ahead and replace it.

[Pepo1]

Just now, Pepo1 said:

It was just a yearly Warrant of Fitness check. Apparently you can't have any fluid weeping out of a strut, which I understand I guess. It wasn't dripping or oozing, the strut just had some damp oil-stained dirt on it. He wasn't going to pass the vehicle unless it was replaced. I protested, as you do, but need the car for work so just told him to go ahead and replace it.

And yes, you are correct, it does have the three modes Auto, 2WD and Lock with H/N/4Lo on the transfer lever. You have to perform gymnastics with the system to avoid graunching something.

[Pepo1]

On 10/4/2024 at 4:19 PM, FirstGenFreak said:

Inner or outer CV?

You shouldn't hear the CV regardless unless you are driving in 4H or 4L and your hubs are locked. 

Should not need to interfere with the CV to replace a shocker, but there are some hack mechanics out there. 

I just watched a mechanic replacing a CV axle on an R50 and he was saying you need to support the lower control arm to stop the hub falling while removing the lower strut bolts.

[Pepo1]

On 10/5/2024 at 1:20 PM, hawairish said:

Sounds like you have the "older" all-mode system.  You have a dial with "2WD|AUTO|LOCK" but also have a "H|N|L" floor shifter?  Newer systems just had a dial switch "2WD|AUTO|4H|4L".  Not that it matters much here, only to note that even in those 2wd or auto modes, the CV still spins with the tires because the truck uses fixed flanges.  The switches and levers just disconnect things inside the transfer case.  CVs, differential, and driveshaft all still spinning.

 

All said, a broken CV sucks but is a fairly trivial and reasonably inexpensive fix.  Wear and tear doesn't usually lead to breakage, but sharp angles and contamination (torn boots) do.  Not ruling out coincidental damage because we don't have enough info (i.e., your vehicle's history, mileage, usage, maintenance, etc.), but generally, breakage usually stems from some amount of force or binding.  I've not had a problem resting the knuckle at a given angle with the CV attached, but I've also always made every effort to ease it into a resting position and eventually always support it.  I can also attest that getting struts off the knuckle can be a hassle.  Who's to say there wasn't extra force applied to pull the strut.

 

But again, why did he pull the strut in the first place to inspect it?  What service were you having done?  

 

 

Gah, I keep responding to my own comments instead of the poster's comments!

I just watched a mechanic replacing a CV axle on an R50 and he was saying you need to support the lower control arm to stop the hub falling while removing the lower strut bolts.

 

Around the 4 minute mark in the video below.

 

 

 

Edited October 6, 2024 by Pepo1
Add link

[R50JR]

On 10/4/2024 at 7:02 PM, hawairish said:

 

Ha, don't worry about that R50JR guy.  He's just bitter because he doesn't get to drive his R50 often enough.

 

 

Sad, but true. 

 

 

8 hours ago, Pepo1 said:

I just watched a mechanic replacing a CV axle on an R50 and he was saying you need to support the lower control arm to stop the hub falling while removing the lower strut bolts.

 

In the case of the video you posted, the knuckle needs to be supported so it doesn't damage the brake hose by having it bear the weight of the knuckle.

 

With that said, this is not normally how "we" remove the cv axle. Normally, the axle can be unbolted at the flange and then wiggled out with the steering completely turned.

 

 

[FirstGenFreak]

On 10/5/2024 at 8:37 AM, Pepo1 said:

It's the outer CV joint. Yeah, I thought if I took it out of "Auto" (a sort of partial 4WD) which I usually keep it at, then it wouldn't impact the CV and at least I could drive it around. But I think the damage is already done now with the joint now completely separated.

 

This R50 has a shock that looks like below. I might be wrong, but I think you do have to release the spindle/hub to install it.

 

 

My bad, I thought it was a WD21, later stuff doesn't exist in my simple mind