Reverse causes front hub (auto) to get partly engage? Clunking noises until I go from 2X4 to 4X4 then back to 2X4

[Chippers]

Hello all,

I'm stuck at what could be the problem with my 1995 XE V6, 5 speed manual. For a while, I couldn't figure out why the front passenger wheel would seem to be stuck in 4X4 when starting to drive. When beginning to drive, the wheel has a clunking noise and I can feel obvious resistance. Placing the vehicle in 4X4 then back to 2X4 puts everything back to normal, until the next trip. I recently found out that it's the process of going in reverse that causes this. When everything is fine in 2X4, and I back up several feet, the noise / clunking returns until I go forward, place it in 4X4 and then back to 2X4. I hadn't noticed this before, as I generally just back into a parking space. 

 

I purchased the vehicle in September of 2023, and everything was fine, until needing to use the 4X4 for the first time in Jan 2024. Since then, it has been a daily occurrence.

 

Between September and November, both front axles have been replaced (along with multiple front end components by a shop) and I've replaced all the fluids for the differentials, transmission and transfer case with synthetic. I'm beginning to thing the hub is the issue but could this problem be caused by the fluids or mechanical linkages? 

 

I've researched the best I could with no luck, as well as read the shop manual for the truck. 

 

I Used Red Line MT90 GL-4 for the transmission and transfer case and Red Line 57905 75W90 Fully Synthetic GL-5 Gear Oil for the differentials (For LSD).

 

Any help or guidance would be greatly appreciated. 

 

Thanks 

Edited April 19, 2024 by Chippers

[Slartibartfast]

 

Sounds like the hubs to me. Backing up is supposed to disengage them, driving forward in 4x is supposed to engage them. Sounds like one of them isn't disengaging all the way.

 

The CV axle installation may be related, if the shop put the hubs back together wrong, or if they attempted to service them while they were apart. I made that mistake on my '95, hoping that a wipe-down and some fresh grease would make my worn-out hubs a little more reliable. My attempted half-ass rebuild turned an unreliable hub into an outright malevolent one that randomly tried to engage while I was driving and made me think the wheel was about to fall off from the godawful noise it made.

 

What I did, and what I recommend, is to chuck the auto hubs in the bin where they belong and replace them with manual hubs. Hawairish started a comparison thread for the various manual options.

 

While you're in there, check your wheel bearings (play, smoothness) and brakes. Most of your symptoms match the hubs, but I don't remember mine feeling bound up when the hubs were playing games.

 

Your gearbox oils shouldn't have anything to do with this. That said, if the rear end has LSD, did you use the additive for it? Without it, the clutches in the diff can bind and chatter when you turn, though from what I've read the synthetic oil may be nerfing them anyway.

[Frenchy]

Might be great opportunity to switch those to manual hubs. Then you'll know when they're engaged and when they're not engaged

[Chippers]

10 hours ago, Slartibartfast said:

 

Sounds like the hubs to me. Backing up is supposed to disengage them, driving forward in 4x is supposed to engage them. Sounds like one of them isn't disengaging all the way.

 

The CV axle installation may be related, if the shop put the hubs back together wrong, or if they attempted to service them while they were apart. I made that mistake on my '95, hoping that a wipe-down and some fresh grease would make my worn-out hubs a little more reliable. My attempted half-ass rebuild turned an unreliable hub into an outright malevolent one that randomly tried to engage while I was driving and made me think the wheel was about to fall off from the godawful noise it made.

 

What I did, and what I recommend, is to chuck the auto hubs in the bin where they belong and replace them with manual hubs. Hawairish started a comparison thread for the various manual options.

 

While you're in there, check your wheel bearings (play, smoothness) and brakes. Most of your symptoms match the hubs, but I don't remember mine feeling bound up when the hubs were playing games.

 

Your gearbox oils shouldn't have anything to do with this. That said, if the rear end has LSD, did you use the additive for it? Without it, the clutches in the diff can bind and chatter when you turn, though from what I've read the synthetic oil may be nerfing them anyway.

Thank you for your response and confirming the direction I've been leaning towards. Co-workers told me they believe it's the universal joint of the axle, but I just don't believe that, especially after finding the correlation between reverse and the issue. 

 

When researching the issue, I did come across posts mentioning people preferring manual hubs vs. auto but didn't want to go down that rabbit hole without having more of a solid idea of the possible issue. I think with the two responses I've received,  the rabbit hole is where I'll be going. 

 

I appreciate your response and the link to the comparisons between the two manufactures. I have some research to do, and I like that. I still have to get Chip (the Pathfinder) inspected for MD and may ask the shop doing the inspection to convert the hubs, unless I find any Joe can do this in their driveway with limited tools. I suspect not... but maybe? I'm not completely incompetent, but limited with only the one vehicle and a step up from rocks and sticks as tools. 

 

As for the LSD additive, the fluid I chose was specifically for LSD and supposedly has the additive added to it. When purchasing the truck, there were some odd noises coming from the back but has cleared up with the fluid change. I question if the clutch plates are still good, regardless, due to the age of the vehicle but am glad the noises have since stopped. 

 

Thank you again for your input and think I'll take the advice of the community, seeing as no one seems to care for the auto-hubs for various reasons.

[Chippers]

2 hours ago, Frenchy said:

Might be great opportunity to switch those to manual hubs. Then you'll know when they're engaged and when they're not engaged

Hey CO! That's where I purchased Chip a few months back. I wish this issue came up while I was still living in Golden, as the shops out there are very familiar with a variety of dated, fun loving, trucks (not to mention the junkyards are a gold mine for all kinds of treasures). Based on your and Slartibartfast's advice, as well as the Pathfinder Community, I think I will figure out how to convert the hubs to manual. A part of me wanted to keep everything as original as possible, but bad design and poor performance shouldn't be encouraged. 

 

Thanks again for your advice

[Frenchy]

Converting to manual hubs is pretty easy. I ended up buying a set of the Chinese knockoff factory hubs for a D21 of a similar year and simply took the auto hub off and put the manual hub on. Didn't even have to take the tires off

[Slartibartfast]

I put a link in the comparison thread to the video I made several years go when I installed mine, in my driveway, with mostly the wrong tools. If that idiot can do it, you can too You'll need an M6 Allen socket and a pair of snap ring pliers, and I think that's pretty much it. The hard part was getting the bolts out, and if yours have been out recently, then they shouldn't be anywhere near as difficult as mine were.

 

The auto hubs were a neat idea, but even when they worked, they were more trouble than they were worth IMO.