Sub-frame drop questions.

[Tommy1336]

I recently installed the krfabs 4" SFD on my 2002. I want to ask anyone with experience:

1)Did you need to have an alignment (camber is off on mine)

2)What size tires/wheels are you running?

 

 

[CNAM]

1. Alignment : YES. I run AC 2" lift springs with camber adjustment kit and KRFabs 4" drop in front without the swaybar.

 

2. Wheels/Tires : I run Goodyear MTR's w Kevlar on rock crawlers 15x8. Tires are 35x12.5x15r. Had to do some trimming and hammering. Also run 2" wheel spacers all the way around.

[Tommy1336]

1. Alignment : YES. I run AC 2" lift springs with camber adjustment kit and KRFabs 4" drop in front without the swaybar.

 

2. Wheels/Tires : I run Goodyear MTR's w Kevlar on rock crawlers 15x8. Tires are 35x12.5x15r. Had to do some trimming and hammering. Also run 2" wheel spacers all the way around.

 

The reason I ask is that according to KRFabs, I shouldn't need an alignment since nothing has changed (aside from maybe the steering rack). I can see it's way out of line though. I haven't done AC or OME lift on top of the SFD.

 

Edited November 20, 2014 by Tommy1336

[CNAM]

AC sells the camber kits. They are a separate set of bolts you can use to correctly adjust the camber.

[CNAM]

I would recommend getting them then doing the alignment. If I remember correct you need two sets of the camber bolts or two camber kits. Not terribly expensive.

[Tommy1336]

Forgive my newbieness , but wasn't the subframe drop supposed to negate the need for camber bolts and alignments? Can't help but think that I messed up somewhere.

Edited November 21, 2014 by Tommy1336

[thorpe991]

Not that i know of (i dont have one but am looking into getting one) the point of a sfd is to correct cv angles and allow for bigger than 31" tires

[hawairish]

You should not need an alignment if you return the strut to the same angle relative to the steering knuckle. This is usually done by marking a line on the camber bolt heads where they meet the strut mount (and obviously returning the same bolts to the same holes when you remove them). Since turning the bolt head is what adjusts camber, you just want to return the original bolt to its original hole at its original position.

 

Of course, this also assumes you didn't need an alignment before installing it, and that you don't add/change anything beyond just installing all the spacers, including new camber bolts (unless you mark them at the same orientation of their 'bellies'...the cam portion of the bolt).

 

To note, I don't run the KrFabs kit either, but will be installing my own kit next week and am familiar with the sort of changes that warrant alignments.

[hawairish]

Oh, and to clarify KRFabs' logic: you don't need an alignment because their kit is designed to be a perfect linear drop of all subframe components. Nothing changes except the gap between the unibody and subframe (it goes from 0" to 4") (<--that's what she said). The steering rack angle changes, but that has no impact on steering.

[Tommy1336]

Yes, that's what I thought should happen. Nothing changes other than the drop. (and the steering rack angle). So I put everything together and I have a crazy positive camber on both wheels. I wonder if I put the strut spacer upside-down or something dumb like that. The camber angles seem to be perfectly evenly horrible. I'm going to check it today to see if flipping it helps.

[bushnut]

every time I've replaced my struts (twice now) the camber has been awful when I took the truck off the jack....just drove it around the block once or twice and everything settled back to normal. no more camber issues.

I'm running Ironman lift springs and 2 inches of spacers up front with 31's and no camber issues truck drives arrow straight. tire wear is normal.

CV joint angle is another story though.

[hawairish]

As Bushnut mentioned, just removing the strut will cause the camber to go off until the coil re-settles under the weight of the truck.

 

But, if you're certain you got the camber bolts back into their original position (not just putting the bolts where they came from, but also turning them to the specific angle they were at), then a positive camber might mean the strut spacers or the struts are on the wrong side.

 

The strut mount bolt pattern prevents rotating the strut spacer or strut mount plate incorrectly, but doesn't prevent putting them on the wrong side of the truck. If the strut spacer tube (the metal between the mounting flanges) has a slight angle, then they need to be swapped. You can use a small level or plumb line to tell (use an upper and lower bolt as reference points). If they are vertical, then the struts need to be swapped, since the strut mount plates are side-specific.

 

I'd also run this by KRFabs and let them confirm the scenario. It could still very much be just the camber bolts if they changed, and this is very easy to test without removing anything. Just loosen the nuts at the lower strut mount, put a wrench on the bolt head, rotate, and observe. (Rotating the non-camber bolts, if any, won't have any effect.)

[Tommy1336]

I've had to flip my strut spacers which has greatly improved the situation. It's not perfect, I still have positive camber, but at least now it's fixable with camber bolts. The stock ones don't appear to be adjustable. It would have helped a lot if they marked the spacers.

 

I'm going to order some bolts from AC and make it perfect.

 

Thanks for all the replies!

[hawairish]

Right on, glad you got it sorted. I thought I had seen a pic of the pieces with writing on them, but yeah, it would've helped. You may also want to give it a day or so to let the coils settle.

[Tommy1336]

They reference the rear blocks as having R and L on them in the manual too, but there were no marking on anything. . I was also missing a bunch of 9/16ths nuts. . I guess my kit was assembled on a Friday.

[dustinp]

Haha yea and good luck trying to get someone to talk to there. I got mine aligned after my sfd.

[hawairish]

But, if you're certain you got the camber bolts back into their original position (not just putting the bolts where they came from, but also turning them to the specific angle they were at), then a positive camber might mean the strut spacers or the struts are on the wrong side.

 

The strut mount bolt pattern prevents rotating the strut spacer or strut mount plate incorrectly, but doesn't prevent putting them on the wrong side of the truck. If the strut spacer tube (the metal between the mounting flanges) has a slight angle, then they need to be swapped. You can use a small level or plumb line to tell (use an upper and lower bolt as reference points). If they are vertical, then the struts need to be swapped, since the strut mount plates are side-specific.

 

So, I know that the OP got the issue sorted out, but I realized tonight that my understanding of the strut mount hardware for an R50 is incorrect (largely based on reading other threads, and some experience on other struts). The only cause of the high positive-camber result is putting the angled strut spacers on the wrong sides of the truck. The tubing on them should be vertical. (This is specific to KRFabs kit.)

 

I disassembled my OME struts to install longer upper bolts for an additional strut spacer. All of the upper mounting brackets, insulators, seat springs--everything--is identical from side to side. The only side-specific part is the strut. Nissan parts diagrams confirm this.

 

Also, my truck doesn't have camber bolts either, which I was certain it did. In fact, the FSM says camber and caster are not adjustable. (Is this normal for MacPherson struts systems? Guess I've never noticed before.) The only adjustable component is toe, unless you get camber bolts.

 

Anyway, sorry for the misinformation.