PDCCD Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 Well, after a few days of bombing fire/logging roads on my most recent camping/wheeling trip, i start to notice an obnoxious squeak coming from the front drivers side. So, i get home, and today start to dig for the source of the noise. Look under the hood so i can hear the noise better and see that the mounting bolt to the strut insulator is covered in rubber shavings. I look closer, and the whole mount is torn to @!*%. So i pull the strut out, and yep, the piece of rubber inside the metal housing is torn and shredded. So my question to the group, is wtf caused that? the passenger side seems fine so far, these are only a little over a year or so old. All new from when i did the lift. The strut bearing appears to be fine. It's an oem with a little over a year on it also. Is it possible by installing the plate in the improper orientation could cause this? I know when i installed them that i didn't pay close attention to that little detail, but i haven't had any other problem with the assembly. Well, i'll hunt down the part in the morning and replace it, but i'd sure like to know what trashed it so i don't destroy another one. thanks for any ideas. pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XPLORx4 Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 The mount may have had a defect to begin with, and probably failed due to "a few days of bombing fire/logging roads". You're lucky it was the rubber mount, not the metal plate in the rubber mount, which partially disintegrated (along with the strut shaft) when I was doing similar off-road driving in Death Valley a few years ago. The strut shaft had eroded down to only 1/4" diameter, and the hole in the plate had widened to 5/8". When I tried to loosen the nut, the shaft sheared right off. Fortunately, the maintenance dude at the Death Valley (Furnace Creek) gas station had a TIG welder and welded the strut mount to the broken strut shaft so I could drive home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDCCD Posted October 18, 2008 Author Share Posted October 18, 2008 The mount may have had a defect to begin with, and probably failed due to "a few days of bombing fire/logging roads". You're lucky it was the rubber mount, not the metal plate in the rubber mount, which partially disintegrated (along with the strut shaft) when I was doing similar off-road driving in Death Valley a few years ago. The strut shaft had eroded down to only 1/4" diameter, and the hole in the plate had widened to 5/8". When I tried to loosen the nut, the shaft sheared right off. Fortunately, the maintenance dude at the Death Valley (Furnace Creek) gas station had a TIG welder and welded the strut mount to the broken strut shaft so I could drive home. I knew i could count on you to offer some help, and a story on how it could have been worse LOL. Your my been there, done that guy I've been kinda staring at it all night trying to figure it out. It looks like it's somehow been twisting, but i can't figure out how, unless maybe i had it over torqued? Also, you'll know, could i have installed it in the improper orientation, as you have shown others several times? It seems like that rubber cup isolates the vertical forces. Is that right? Then why is it being exposed to torsional forces? It seems like that's the primary question. As for you and Death Valley, woah! Talk about a place where you don't want a terminal failure of your suspension. Problem with our setup too is that it's more than just a piece of suspension, it's also a structural component. That could have been a huge mess for you. What do you think caused it? Just corrosion? Your thought of the mount having a defect might have weight as well. I believe they were KYB mounts, and if they're of any similar quality to their strut bearings, i should feel lucky to have gotten a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff57 Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 (edited) Pete Was the large plastic washer that sits between the top of the strut shaft and the rubber mount plate still there? This washer acts as a bearing surface and allows the strut to turn easily. Without it the strut will still turn but there is a lot more drag which I imagine will eventually cause damage to the rubber. Geoff Edited October 18, 2008 by Geoff57 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDCCD Posted October 18, 2008 Author Share Posted October 18, 2008 Pete Was the large plastic washer that sits between the top of the strut shaft and the rubber mount plate still there? This washer acts as a bearing surface and allows the strut to turn easily. Without it the strut will still turn but there is a lot more drag which I imagine will eventually cause damage to the rubber. Geoff Hmm. Well, there's the "spacer" that's a red color that sits between the top of the strut assembly and the fender. Is that it? Or should there have been one between the nut at the top of the strut and the rubber "strut mounting insulator"? I didn't see any washer under that strut nut in the service manual. thanks for the help. Pete Oh, and where'd you get that Lokka locker in your front axle? Is that common in Australia? Want to export one by any chance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff57 Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 (edited) This washer sits on top of the spring holder plate and is around 1-1/2 to 2 inches in dia. The shaft comes up through it and into the rubber mounting block. This washer has all the weigh of the vehicle sitting on it and its job is to allow the spring mount plate (and the rest of the strut) to turn. Without it, the inner metal part of the mounting bush would be rubbing directly on the metal top of the spring plate which would soon destroy the rubber. Lokka diff kits are sold by 4WD systems located in South Aust The export around the world according to their site. http://www.4wdsystems.com.au/html/lokka.htm The modification to the diff gears can be installed buy anyone with at least a bit of mechanical knowledge and access to a good set of tools. I have had mine for 6 years and was in my previous R50 ( I swapped the complete diff housings over) Geoff Edited October 19, 2008 by Geoff57 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02silverpathy Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 Geoff is talking about the strut bearings...you have already determined Pete, that OEM is the ONLY way to go!! KYB replacements are just poo. I recently replaced (thanks SammyB), my front insulators and bearings and struts...the world is a much smoother place now!! The only catch to my replacement is that I have a noise that sounds like a "light" topping out by my struts...not quite as lud as bad sway-bar end links going bad...any suggestions here?? ***Geoff, good call on the strut bearings, but several of us R50 owners already learned about these the hard way!!*** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDCCD Posted October 19, 2008 Author Share Posted October 19, 2008 Ahhh, gotcha guys. Thanks a ton on that suggestion, but yes, after installing the KYB strut bearing i had nothing but trouble with binding, so i had to do the whole job over with the OEM bearings, and that seems fine, it's got less than 10000miles on it or so. I went to the dealer this morning for a replacement insulator. None in stock, and i can't get it till Wednesday, so it'll have to sit, and i'll be riding my bike to work. Price seemed reasonable at $37. But i've been having MAF problems so for giggles asked for a price on that. The guy gave me a quote of $600!! I couldn't figure it out, either could he. Guess i'll have to dig for that Thread on the Maxima MAF that's supposed to work. O2silver, that noise you hear has been plauging me too since i put in my lift. I could never figure it out, no matter how hard i tried, and i tried allot of different things. I eventually gave up and figured it would make itself known eventually. Just a light sorta pop under certain circumstances. I wonder if this torn insulator was the result. I just don't know, i'm sorry i can't help more. Geoff, thanks for the link. I wonder why i haven't heard anyone else running this locker here. I'll start researching it. What have you done in the rear? Are you guys able to get any of the Japanese goodies like the lifts and fender flares? I've spent many an hour digging through the web trying to figure a way to get some of that stuff state side, but the path hasn't made itself very visible on how to obtain anything. I don't have any contacts in Japan. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff57 Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 (edited) Geoff is talking about the strut bearings...you have already determined Pete, that OEM is the ONLY way to go!! KYB replacements are just poo. I recently replaced (thanks SammyB), my front insulators and bearings and struts...the world is a much smoother place now!! The only catch to my replacement is that I have a noise that sounds like a "light" topping out by my struts...not quite as lud as bad sway-bar end links going bad...any suggestions here?? ***Geoff, good call on the strut bearings, but several of us R50 owners already learned about these the hard way!!*** It sounds like our Oz R50s use a different mounting block to yours or are you guys fitting an aftermarket mounting block that has a bearing mounted in it ? There are no bearings in our mounting block just a steel sleeve moulded to the rubber. The strut shaft fits into a keyway in the steel sleeve to stop it turning and is secured by a locknut on top. The strut shaft doesnt rotate, rather the spring mounting plate (and the rest of the strut) rotate around it. The plastic washer is sandwiched between the spring plate and the bottom of the mounting block and acts as a bearing surface. Pete, I still use the factory LSD in the rear. Combined with the Lokka up front it works well. While it may not have as much traction as an air locker ,you dont need to think when to engage it. We used to be able to get Japanese performance parts in Oz up until 1999 when the federal gov banned the importing of Jap second hand vehicles that had an equivalent vehicle sold new here. This was to protect the resale value of the Oz delivered vehicles. There where a lot of parts being imported with these vehicles to support them. But since the ban not many companies bother to bring them in as there is just not the demand without the vehicles. It is a pain because I would have loved to have imported an R50 fitted with the ZD30 intercooled turbo diesel which are a really great truck. Geoff Edited October 19, 2008 by Geoff57 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDCCD Posted October 19, 2008 Author Share Posted October 19, 2008 It sounds like our Oz R50s use a different mounting block to yours or are you guys fitting an aftermarket mounting block that has a bearing mounted in it ? There are no bearings in our mounting block just a steel sleeve moulded to the rubber. The strut shaft fits into a keyway in the steel sleeve to stop it turning and is secured by a locknut on top. The strut shaft doesnt rotate, rather the spring mounting plate (and the rest of the strut) rotate around it. The plastic washer is sandwiched between the spring plate and the bottom of the mounting block and acts as a bearing surface. Pete, I still use the factory LSD in the rear. Combined with the Lokka up front it works well. While it may not have as much traction as an air locker ,you dont need to think when to engage it and it doesnt try bulldozer your vehicle into going in a straight line. We used to be able to get Japanese performance parts in Oz up until 1999 when the federal gov banned the importing of Jap second hand vehicles that had an equivalent vehicle sold new here. This was to protect the resale value of the Oz delivered vehicles. There where a lot of parts being imported with these vehicles to support them. But since the ban not many companies bother to bring them in as there is just not the demand without the vehicles. It is a pain because I would have loved to have imported an R50 fitted with the ZD30 intercooled turbo diesel which are a really great truck. Geoff No Geoff, i don't think it's a parts issue, just vocabulary confusion. If you can see with my attachment, part #4 in this schematic is called a strut mounting bearing, which essentially yes, is just a couple of plastic washers with some lubricant in between that allows the assembly to rotate. Washer, bearing, pain in the ass, it's all good LOL. It sucks you guys can't import the parts, i think it could be argued that a R50 with a ZD30 is not the same as a R50 with a vq35. I've got to make some japanese friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff57 Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 (edited) Yes No4 is what I am talking about. As for a Vq35.... the boy racer in me whole heartily agrees with you (we never got the Vq35 in Oz) But when you start to pay around $1.80 to $2.00 a litre or more ($7.50 to $8.50 roughly a US gallon) once you head inland and if towing a heavy trailer the ZD30 is the way to go. Some of the guys here with Vq40s in the R51s are reporting frightning fuel consumptions when towing I am not sure of the exact figures but I think they are selling more than double the number of new diesel R51s than petrols here in Oz Geoff Edited October 19, 2008 by Geoff57 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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