madhatter_xe Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 hey guys, anybody know what the ignition timing should be set at on a 1988 V6? i just got the new engine in with some headers and its not running too smooth. currently i have it set at the 0 mark....or the first notch in the wheel. thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unccpathfinder Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 (edited) That notch doesnt mean anything unless you verified it with #1 being at TDC... but I am not 100% on this but I think its something like 13deg (or maybe its 16 deg) BTDC but I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong on that... Edited January 22, 2008 by unccpathfinder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revgolem Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 close enough to be right. official spec is 12 degrees BTDC (+ or - 2 degrees). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madhatter_xe Posted January 22, 2008 Author Share Posted January 22, 2008 Hey thanks for the info. i'm sort of confused with the marks on the crank pulley. it says in the FSM that the 1st notch is 0 and then they go up in increments of 5 for each notch..so the third notch is 10. would just past the third notch work? or are these numbers A(after)TDC? I didn't really set the engine to TDC when i did the TB and cam seals and all that stuff, I just made sure nothing moved when i swapped everything out. how could i make sure i put the crank pulley back on the same way? if i put a screw driver or something in the spark plug hole for #1 cylinder and turned the engine over until its at TDC, should the marks line up with the timing pointer on the TB cover? the engine seems really gutless and i figure something must be way out. thanks again for any help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jj big shoe Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 if i put a screw driver or something in the spark plug hole for #1 cylinder and turned the engine over until its at TDC, should the marks line up with the timing pointer on the TB cover? Exactly. Just be sure to put your thumb over the spark plug hole as you turn the crank. When you feel a rush of air pushing your thumb off, you're on the compression stroke. Then poke a straw or the eraser side of a pencil (a screwdriver could scratch the piston and give a place for carbon to build up) in the hole. When its at its highest point, you're at TDC. The pointer on the timing cover should then line up with the 0* mark (furthest to the left) on the pulley. how could i make sure i put the crank pulley back on the same way?If your 88 is like my 87, it is possible to put the pulley on wrong, but if you didn't remove the six bolts holding the pulley to the harmonic balancer it should be correct. The harmonic balancer has a keyway cut into it that matches up with the key in the crankshaft, so it only fits on one way. You may want to pull the timing cover back off and recheck your cam gears, though. If you're off just one tooth you'll end up with a gutless pig that won't rev past 4,000rpm (Mine was off a tooth when I bought it). I'd pull the cover, find TDC and check that your cam marks are right if it still seems weak once you set your timing to 12*BTDC (between the 3rd and 4th mark). Good luck and let us know how you made out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madhatter_xe Posted January 22, 2008 Author Share Posted January 22, 2008 thanks alot for the help JJ. Just to make sure I get this right, do I want the pointer to line up with the 0(first mark on the left) or do I want it 12 degrees past that? Yeah, I'm pretty sure the pulley came off the harmonic balancer at some point in the swap. So i might have to pull it apart and rotate the pulley....bah. I think I might have to look at the timing belt again too, its running just brutal and won't rev up at all. I trusted that the PO did it right, but it ain't lookin that way. I'll check out the timing in the morning and see if I can get her running a little better. Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unccpathfinder Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 12 deg pas that...so just after hte 3rd marker from the left (without going and looking at the truck) ...also check all the plug wires are good and tight on both ends (dizzy and plug) along with the coil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madhatter_xe Posted January 22, 2008 Author Share Posted January 22, 2008 thanks man, clear as mud! now i know where to set it once i find TDC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unccpathfinder Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 TDC on a compression stroke...you may also just want to verify that by the potion of the rotor on your Dizzy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey.T Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 OOOOOoooo!!! you might get lucky like I did and have to reset the Distriutor.... Do ^^^^ stuff first, then we will play with the dizzy if needed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unccpathfinder Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 I guess I should have said...dont pull the dizzy out...just remove the cap... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madhatter_xe Posted January 22, 2008 Author Share Posted January 22, 2008 alrighty...this is turning into quite the headache...thanks alot everybody for helpin me out here. yeah i probably should've just pulled the cap and checked the rotor, but i ended up putting a pencil in the hole and using a little strip of kleenex to be sure it was on its compression stroke (i don't trust the feeling in my finger). Turns out i did put the pulley back on right, so i set the timing to 12..or a bit after the 3rd notch, and its still running ugly. so i pulled the rad and all that fun stuff and have the TB covers off. I'll try to explain exactly what is going on now: - turned engine over by hand until all my marks lined up...but its not really perfect..there is the right amount of teeth between the cams and the cam and the crank, but the one mark on the cam is like 1/2 a tooth over from the mark on the backing plate. so i don't know how to fix that without having the wrong # of teeth in between the cams? -so i figured i'd roll it over a few motr times and then when it came around again it was a full tooth over, so i kept rolling it over and every time it came around it was another tooth out. -now its like 5 teeth out and my arms are sore.. So i guess i'm wondering if the belt marks should ever line back up with everything again..and how many times do you have to turn a full revolution of the engine to get back to that?? did i luck out by pulling the covers off and just needing to turn it a couple times to have everything line up? thanks again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madhatter_xe Posted January 22, 2008 Author Share Posted January 22, 2008 okay, i think i might have found the problem. I took your advice and checked the rotor on the distributor. I rolled the engine around til #1 was at TDC on comp. stroke and found that when i lined the rotor up like it says in the FSM, the cam marks were out a tooth compared to the marks on the backing plate. I'd like to be sure I have the rotor in the exact right spot. Can anybody tell me if the rotor center, should line up with the tiny L shaped thing thats welded to the dizzy plate? there is two of them on the plate straight across from each other. thanks again. hopefully this is the problem.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madhatter_xe Posted January 22, 2008 Author Share Posted January 22, 2008 hey casey, how does a guy know if the dizzy is set correctly? i'm wondering because when i line the rotor up like the picture in the FSM, the timing mark on the crank seems lower than it was on my first motor.. and my first motor ran good. neither of my engines have any marks on them to line the crank mark up with. I always just scratched a line on myself to use as a guide. But now that things may have been outta whack, that line might be in the wrong spot. I'll try to take some pics tonight and let you guys know what i mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey.T Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 (edited) Alignment.... the cams are easy, the crank, most motors do not have the timing mark on the oil pump housing the crank gear mark should be in about the 5, 5:30 position, 40 teeth between the cams and 43 teeth to the crank gear mark.... If thats all set correctly then we can play with the dizzy.... if your talking about the little brass button on the face of the dizzy body, the book is off a bit on that imo... Mark #1 on the Cap and carry the mark down onto the dist housing, remove cap and draw the line into the housing(88's do have the plug wires coming out the top??? if not... draw a line from the #1 contact under the cap down the cap and around to the out side of the cap, then make the marks dist body) With the alignment marks set(#1 at TDC on the compression stroke) the rotor should point directly and almost dead center at the nice new marks you just made..... Try turning the dist with the motor running to see if it runs any better(ignore the timing light for the moment) if you get to the max rotation and its running better, we get to play with re-setting the distributor.... If you got all that set and its running like crap... I would then venture to guess you have a vacuum leak... ok, now how many people have I had this converstaion with???? Sucks to be the 1st to figure out what you screwed up on yourself.... Even though according to the book it was dead nuts... Edited January 23, 2008 by Casey.T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
94extreme Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 definitely go with standard time.. daylight savings is such a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jj big shoe Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 ok, now how many people have I had this converstaion with????I can think of at least one. neither of my engines have any marks on them to line the crank mark up with. I always just scratched a line on myself to use as a guide. But now that things may have been outta whack, that line might be in the wrong spot. If you use the pencil on the piston method to find TDC, you don't have to worry about looking for the mark on the crank gear and oil pump housing. The crank will be in the correct position. Just line the cams up with the dots and count the belt teeth to be sure. turned engine over by hand until all my marks lined up...but its not really perfect..there is the right amount of teeth between the cams and the cam and the crank, but the one mark on the cam is like 1/2 a tooth over from the mark on the backing plate. so i don't know how to fix that without having the wrong # of teeth in between the cams? I've never been able to get the driver's side cam gear dead nuts on the mark either. I think it's normal for it to be like a half a tooth off (hey, someone back me up here). -so i figured i'd roll it over a few motr times and then when it came around again it was a full tooth over, so i kept rolling it over and every time it came around it was another tooth out. -now its like 5 teeth out and my arms are sore.. So i guess i'm wondering if the belt marks should ever line back up with everything again..and how many times do you have to turn a full revolution of the engine to get back to that?? It takes something like 26 or 54 or some odd number of revolutions to have the lines on the timing belt all match back up after you spin the crank, don't worry about it. Those marks are there as a reference to help you get the number of teeth between each gear correct during installation. You don't even have to line them up in the first place as long as you're at TDC, the cams are aligned and you have the teeth count right. Don't sweat it. When you're trying to determine where your rotor should be pointing when at TDC, be sure to draw the line from the #1 contact on the dist. cap (where the rotor makes contact inside) and not where the plug wire goes and you should be fine. Stay at it, man. I just got mine running again after my swap and it plagued me with one silly, frustrating, maddening thing after another. Vacuum problems, timing, idle, fouled plugs, loose wiring... Don't give up and keep us posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madhatter_xe Posted January 23, 2008 Author Share Posted January 23, 2008 okay, i'm gonna go mark the dizzy and see if my marks line up when the rotor is in the right spot. If its good i'll have to start checking vacuum lines. I know for a fact that hoses aren't hooked up right...or at all in some cases. I attempted to use the vacuum line diagram in the FSM...but it confused the hell outta me. I may need to find a picture of somebody's engine with the air cleaner removed to see if the lines are going to the right spots. i also still have the egr and aiv ports open in the driver's side header...that could probably be causing some problems too. i can't find fittings that will thread into them. but i;ll make sure the belt is right for now. thanks for the help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey.T Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 If you use the pencil on the piston method to find TDC, you don't have to worry about looking for the mark on the crank gear and oil pump housing. The crank will be in the correct position. Just line the cams up with the dots and count the belt teeth to be sure. It does have to be 43 teeth from the cam mark to the crank mark and both of them have to be close to the right spot.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey.T Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 okay, i'm gonna go mark the dizzy and see if my marks line up when the rotor is in the right spot. If its good i'll have to start checking vacuum lines. I know for a fact that hoses aren't hooked up right...or at all in some cases. I attempted to use the vacuum line diagram in the FSM...but it confused the hell outta me. I may need to find a picture of somebody's engine with the air cleaner removed to see if the lines are going to the right spots. i also still have the egr and aiv ports open in the driver's side header...that could probably be causing some problems too. i can't find fittings that will thread into them. but i;ll make sure the belt is right for now. thanks for the help! Fix that stuff 1st... no sense in screwing with the Timing if everything else is known to be incorrect or not hooked up... a simple vacuum line will cause it to run like crappola.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jj big shoe Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 You could chop the AIV pipe fitting off close and fill it with JB Weld then screw it back in. That's what I did on my Thorley's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unccpathfinder Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 've never been able to get the driver's side cam gear dead nuts on the mark either. I think it's normal for it to be like a half a tooth off (hey, someone back me up here). had that problem so I never line up the lines just count teeth and make sure the belt is facing the right way outwards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madhatter_xe Posted January 23, 2008 Author Share Posted January 23, 2008 (edited) yup, i just went and marked the dizzy up and when the rotor is on the mark things seem to line up right. Here are some pics of where stuff falls when the rotor is on mark. sorry about the blurry pics...apparently i have arthritis at 25. I'll have to start trying to figure out the vacuum lines, and then get those holes in the headers plugged. You could chop the AIV pipe fitting off close and fill it with JB Weld then screw it back in. That's what I did on my Thorley's. hmm, sorry i don't think i'm following you here? I was thinking about just plugging the hole with a big bolt and eliminating the AIV all together. not sure if that would hurt anything. But if I can find a compression fitting that will thread into it, I will do that. what did you end up doing with the EGR? Edited January 23, 2008 by madhatter_xe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey.T Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 Marks look like they are where they should be.... Its a vacuum thing.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jj big shoe Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 what did you end up doing with the EGR?I left the EGR stuff intact. I only removed the AIV parts and plugged the tubes at the headers and cat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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