Motofish Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 So, I was accelerating onto the freeway the other day, doing about 60 mph, and I simultaneously feel a severe loss of power, see a bunch of bad lights come on, and hear the unmistakable sounds of valves and pistons colliding with great force... Press the clutch to the floor, glide to a gentle stop by the side of the road, and pop the hood... Shouldn't be the belt, it was just done about 3k miles ago... However, it sure seemed like the timing got screwed up. Went straight for the T-belt cover at the top passenger side to check belt movement and tension... tension good, but no cam movement when my wife cranks the starter... weird. Weirder still, the crank pulley isn't spinning either... yet I can hear things moving internally inside the block. Also, engine seems to spin very easily, like there is NO compression anywhere. Well, after a 5 hour ordeal waiting for AAA (seeing as my only tow vehicle is F-O-R-D with me) and some jockeying and maneuvering to get the ol' boy up the driveway (a Chrysler T&C WILL pull a wd21 up a steep driveway, btw) I was able to get some troubleshooting done. Found the crank bolt was pretty loose, so I tightened it a bit and now the crank pulley spun, and the cam sprockets spun. Belt is a-ok. Quick compression test on #1 = 0 psi, so a feverish search for a low mile VG33 ensued... (found a nice looking JDM with 55-65k for around $700, here's to making "VG33 powered WD21 lemonade" :-D !) Back to the task at hand. I pulled the front apart to get to the timing components, and without further "ado" here is what I found: Snapped right off... I heard tales of this happening, but now I know its possible! I just never thought it would be me...lol. Oh well, its a good reason to do that VG33 swap I've been fantasizing about... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleurys Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 whoa... This is pretty bad, I`ll say.. Looks like rust slowly did it`s job over the years, eating the metal away... Sorry for you buddy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedPath88 Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Well, that tops my broken cam and although a "bigger" failure it matches the results (engine replacement) of my rounded out crank keyways that followed the cam. Sorry man, that really sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmitchell Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Yikes! Hope you got that new one lined up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motofish Posted June 19, 2015 Author Share Posted June 19, 2015 Thanks for the sympathies! It may sound kind of odd at this point, but I'm actually excited about the swap... while I'm sad that my pathfinder died, its not really dead... so to speak. Now it just gives me a chance to make it more customized to me, and a fun job as well. I went ahead and picked up that VG33, and I just placed an order with Rob for a bunch of new seals, timing components, etc. to get it tip top before I put it in. There is tons of swap info here on the forums, I had been cataloging threads anyways, so now its just a matter of having to do it, as opposed to just wanting to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeelthePathos95 Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 It's not dead! It's just resting! Good luck on your swap. Looks like you'll end up in a better place at the end of it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Things happen for a reason. What reason? No one knows, but that doesn't matter right now! Unfortunately VG30 snout issues are not unheard of, but I don't recall one snapping off. Recently, at least... Sorry she broke her heart, but as you say, you are just putting a stronger one back in. Don't forget to install the VG30 cams... B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motofish Posted June 20, 2015 Author Share Posted June 20, 2015 Things happen for a reason. What reason? No one knows... So true! The Good Lord only knows why things happen, but I'm sure in the future it will all be clear looking back. Don't forget to install the VG30 cams... I've been on the fence about this one. I've read a lot of threads on here about the cam swap, and (assuming mine aren't damaged) I understand it gives a bit more "oomph" to the engine. What I'm concerned with is, it seems as though some VG33 owners get lucky with the interference aspect of the engine, at times, whereas it seems the VG30 crowd is pretty well screwed whenever timing issues arise (well, usually). So would putting in the more aggressive cams increase the likelihood of interference in the event that something fails and the engine doesn't keep time correctly? There is also the issue of my 165k mile vg30 cams (with the same PO history as the broken crank...) vs. the 55-65k (according to the seller/dealer/peddler) JDM cams currently in the VG33... For my part, I'm not as interested (for now) in maximizing output (but in the not so near future, headers and such are a possibility)... I'm leaning more toward reliability right now. Although I would be keeping either set of cams though... ya know, to keep my options open :-D But I would love to hear from you guys that have more experience in these matters... I'm still open to going either way with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKdraws Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 So true! The Good Lord only knows why things happen, but I'm sure in the future it will all be clear looking back. I've been on the fence about this one. I've read a lot of threads on here about the cam swap, and (assuming mine aren't damaged) I understand it gives a bit more "oomph" to the engine. What I'm concerned with is, it seems as though some VG33 owners get lucky with the interference aspect of the engine, at times, whereas it seems the VG30 crowd is pretty well screwed whenever timing issues arise (well, usually). So would putting in the more aggressive cams increase the likelihood of interference in the event that something fails and the engine doesn't keep time correctly? There is also the issue of my 165k mile vg30 cams (with the same PO history as the broken crank...) vs. the 55-65k (according to the seller/dealer/peddler) JDM cams currently in the VG33... For my part, I'm not as interested (for now) in maximizing output (but in the not so near future, headers and such are a possibility)... I'm leaning more toward reliability right now. Although I would be keeping either set of cams though... ya know, to keep my options open :-D But I would love to hear from you guys that have more experience in these matters... I'm still open to going either way with it. I'm interested in a vg33 swap in my wd21 as well so I cant wait to see how you like it. I've heard its the way to go for some more power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedPath88 Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 There is also the issue of my 165k mile vg30 cams (with the same PO history as the broken crank...) vs. the 55-65k (according to the seller/dealer/peddler) JDM cams currently in the VG33... Pull the valve covers and look at them. Better yet pull the cams, inspect them yourself and if you are still concerned then have them professionally measured. When I had a cam break (caused by unrelated issues) I took them both to the Delta Camshaft (local Tacoma, WA area Cam specialist and machine shop) and asked them what the best route was for replacement. They looked at the good one and after pointing out that it showed no wear, they measured it and said this one is almost perfect, so just replace the other with one of the same spec and call it good. They provided a new replacement and after I installed it there was no noticeable change in the way the engine ran. That was at 234,000 miles, so give that you are 80,000 miles below I would not worry about it and would install the VG30 cams myself. They easily could have told me that both had to be replaced simply to sell two instead of one cam, but they did not, this says a lot about Delta camshaft and it also says a lot about the factory Nissan cams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 So true! The Good Lord only knows why things happen, but I'm sure in the future it will all be clear looking back. I've been on the fence about this one. I've read a lot of threads on here about the cam swap, and (assuming mine aren't damaged) I understand it gives a bit more "oomph" to the engine. What I'm concerned with is, it seems as though some VG33 owners get lucky with the interference aspect of the engine, at times, whereas it seems the VG30 crowd is pretty well screwed whenever timing issues arise (well, usually). So would putting in the more aggressive cams increase the likelihood of interference in the event that something fails and the engine doesn't keep time correctly? There is also the issue of my 165k mile vg30 cams (with the same PO history as the broken crank...) vs. the 55-65k (according to the seller/dealer/peddler) JDM cams currently in the VG33... For my part, I'm not as interested (for now) in maximizing output (but in the not so near future, headers and such are a possibility)... I'm leaning more toward reliability right now. Although I would be keeping either set of cams though... ya know, to keep my options open :-D But I would love to hear from you guys that have more experience in these matters... I'm still open to going either way with it. Red has great personal experience and I'm just going on principle; I'm pretty sure the more aggressive cams function more on a timing/duration level than absolute throw, at least in this relatively mild scenario. I'd check the specs of both stock cams to see which stand taller. MY1PATH has good info here from when he was experimenting with cam grinds, so that would be a must read... From what I know, the VG33 has a stronger crank/snout and a timing belt interval of 105k so you shouldn't normally have timing issues. If you do, just count yourself screwed and don't hope for luck. I'd put the VG30 cams in from the get go. You aren't going to make it a drag champ, you are just going to actually use some of the motor potential. You won't be loping at intersections (but that would be hilarious!) Not you! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXGu1agB63o If you don't want to do that right away, no worries, they can be installed fairly easily with the motor in place. BUT, if it is already out, stripped and open (timing belt work), it would be really easy. My ideal motor replacement is a VG33 block with vg30 cams, all the VG30 stuff on it, into Thorley headers on out (intake to match of course). I believe the VG30 cams will give you a little better low end as well... Good luck no matter what you decide! B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motofish Posted June 21, 2015 Author Share Posted June 21, 2015 Pull the valve covers and look at them. Better yet pull the cams, inspect them yourself and if you are still concerned then have them professionally measured. This is good advice, I will take a look at them. Its free, the valve covers will be coming off anyways... Thanks They provided a new replacement and after I installed it there was no noticeable change in the way the engine ran. That was at 234,000 miles, so give that you are 80,000 miles below I would not worry about it and would install the VG30 cams myself. This confirms my suspicions that VG30 cams are made of "unobtanium" lol. That's awesome that there was no wear! It gives me hope! They easily could have told me that both had to be replaced simply to sell two instead of one cam, but they did not, this says a lot about Delta camshaft... Sounds like a reputable company indeed! Red has great personal experience and I'm just going on principle; I'm pretty sure the more aggressive cams function more on a timing/duration level than absolute throw, at least in this relatively mild scenario. I definitely defer to the wisdom of the NPORA members! I'd check the specs of both stock cams to see which stand taller. MY1PATH has good info here from when he was experimenting with cam grinds, so that would be a must read... I remember browsing through that thread, ill have to look it up. This certainly would be the right time for re-reading it! From what I know, the VG33 has a stronger crank/snout and a timing belt interval of 105k so you shouldn't normally have timing issues. If you do, just count yourself screwed and don't hope for luck. I'd put the VG30 cams in from the get go. You aren't going to make it a drag champ, you are just going to actually use some of the motor potential. You won't be loping at intersections (but that would be hilarious!) The crank on the 33 is definitely larger, which makes me happier now more than ever! I'm definitely not a speed freak, but if I can get an increase towing potential with the '33, and then increase that with the '30 cams, if they won't reduce reliability or fuel economy much, it sounds like a good deal to me. If you don't want to do that right away, no worries, they can be installed fairly easily with the motor in place. BUT, if it is already out, stripped and open (timing belt work), it would be really easy. My ideal motor replacement is a VG33 block with vg30 cams, all the VG30 stuff on it, into Thorley headers on out (intake to match of course). I believe the VG30 cams will give you a little better low end as well... Good luck no matter what you decide! B Man, I gotta go back and do some more research... This would be the best time to switch them, no doubt about it. Does anyone know if the JDM cams are different than the US market '33 cams? I was mainly attracted to the low mileage of the JDM engine, but I'm wondering if the performance would be different on the Japanese Domestic spec engine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Sorry, I don't know the JDM specs or where to get them. Considering the model though, I'd be surprised to find a significant difference, but it is definitely worth matching some numbers up. I'll do a little digging tomorrow to see what I can find. B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motofish Posted June 24, 2015 Author Share Posted June 24, 2015 Sorry, I don't know the JDM specs or where to get them. Considering the model though, I'd be surprised to find a significant difference, but it is definitely worth matching some numbers up. I'll do a little digging tomorrow to see what I can find. B Thank you very much for any info you can find! I would be surprised if they were, but I had heard that some vehicles have different output, not necessarily Nissan only, per se... Id expect it to be more likely in the sports car lines. In any case, once I get the cams out I can set them side by side and take some pictures if anyone is interested. On the topic of Pictures, at the moment, I have a VG30 and a VG33 side by side out of the vehicle right now. Is there anything that would be helpful to the Forum to take pictures of, whether its a side by side comparison of the engines or components (I'm unfortunately not going to be able to tear into the VG33 too much deeper than timing and valve covers, but the 30 is eligible for in-depth looks). I know its not a very unusual swap, or job, but if I can help out the forum here Id be happy to take pictures of anything on the Pathy or the engines. Oh yeah, and I also wanted to record on here that you CAN take out the front diff without removing the torsion bars, if anyone is wondering. I did have to lift up the engine, as has been stated on here before. I couldn't find a definitive answer about the torsion bars, and I didn't want to mess with re-indexing since I have it in a place where I wanted it... Anyways, it is possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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