Tinker Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 I'd like to post a few of the symptoms I noted prior to the failure of my automatic tranny (93 4x4, 340000 km), which may be helpful to others trying to diagnose tranny problems - is this the correct place to do it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 Go for it. Hopefully we'll get various input and then I'll see about pinning it somewhere for reference. Thanks for the consideration. B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinker Posted December 5, 2005 Author Share Posted December 5, 2005 Sorry for the extended length. Alright... here goes: Background - I use my Pathy for a lot of highway miles, canoe carrier in summer, hunting buggy in fall, and ski wagon in winter, trips are usually 3-5 hours in duration at 120 kph (60 mph?). Its a 93 XE 4x4 with 330000+ km on the clock. Previously a fleet vehicle for Canada Broadcast Corp., so it was reasonably well maintained prior to being picked up at auction - essentially stock. First symptom was noted about 8 months prior to failure - noted a nasty smell which appeared to be coming from the back of the vehicle (something like burning garbage) after about 2 hours of highway driving. I discounted this as a clearance issue between the exhaust and body (toasted undercoating), as I had just replaced the tailpipe. Smell seemed to go away after a short while. In hindsight, was probably the beginning of the high clutch failing, as I had just climbed a long hill at highway speed. Pathy seemed OK for several months afterward. Second symptom noted about 5 months prior to failure - Pathy wouldn't pull away with any authority from near-stops (speed reduced to about 20-30 kph, then light to moderate throttle application) without downshifting into first or second. Once in first or second accel was fine, but a little disconcerting as the engine would be roaring away 'til it upshifted. Accel from full stops was fine. Checked the AT fluid - looked a little grungy, but no obvioulsy burnt smell - changed it out with Nissanmatic D from the dealer (Nissanmatic C no longer available, dealer says D is the recommended replacement). No large parts or wear particles noted in the removed fluid. This seemed to fix the accel problem from near-stops. Third symptom was noted about 30 days prior to failure - return of accel problem from near-stops. Very mild at first, progressively worsening. Dragging parking brake mechanism was noted on the drivers side rear wheel at this time (binding brake lever pivot on shoe). P-brake lever fixed, tranny fluid changed again with small improvement in near-stop accel noted. Slightly toasted odor of the fluid was attributed to the dragging brake forcing the tranny to slip slightly. Several hunting trips were made successfully after this, including extended periods in 4X4 through some moderatley heinous terrain (logging and oil lease roads - lotsa mud, lotsa hills). No slippage was noted in the tranny. Last symptom was noted on the day of the failure - returning from hunting trip (ran fine all day in 4X and 2X). Poor highway acceleration after upshift from 2nd, some hunting and over-revving at highway speed (120kph), non-existent power for passing with corresponding over-rev. Managed to make it back to town, but found that anything past 2nd was hopeless in 2X or 4X. Ditto with OD on or off, or with power button in either position. Limped across town in 2nd. 1st and 2nd seemed unaffected. I found a tranny shop which claimed to be able to diagnose (drive and electronic scan) the Pathy for $65. Drove it over and left it with them for the night, got the $2700+ phone call the following morning, and an offer to purchase the vehicle for $500 when I went to pick it up. No details on what exactly was wrong, no results from the supposed diagnostic, and no charge for inspection (almost kinda sounds like they didn't bother eh?). Drove home in 2 as I don't have 3 grand handy. At this point I found the WD21 forums on 88pathoffroad's damagedreality site, and worked through the Nissan FSM troubleshooting procedure. (Kudos to 88 - I woulda' been dead in the water without the info on his butt-kickin site!) Self diagnosis showed all clear on the electronic front, symptomatic troubleshooting chart indicated a toasted high clutch, which sounded right given the normal operation in 1 and 2. Failure was probably induced (at least in part) to dragging brakes, high load (I tend to push it pretty hard on the hwy sometimes, even with the canoe on top), and most importantly, dependence on the stock tranny cooler in the rad (although I never did see the AT temp light come on). Oh yeah, high mileage probably had something to do with it too. Sourced a used tranny for $800 from a reputable wrecker (oxymoron?) with 120000 km on it - tranny swap scheduled for next weekend. Anyone want pics? Tinker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 Feel free to take a lot of pictures and do a write up, they are always appreciated. It seems like the cooler plugging has a worse effect with fluid starvation other than heat alone. A lot of people say they never saw the AT temp light go on, or only when it was way too late. I assume you will be installing an aftermarket tranny cooler ? Sorry about it dying on you though, and I wouldn't go to that tranny shop any more either. Sounds like the guy was going to fix the tranny himself and resell or keep the truck. B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinker Posted December 5, 2005 Author Share Posted December 5, 2005 Yeah, I got the distinct impression that the kid at the tranny shop was drooling over my Pathy after seeing the newer exhaust, front end components, and general level of care. Kinda discouraging to be taken for a dolt with more dollars than sense though. I usually avoid any kind of auto repair shop for that very reason. I'll definitely be going with the aftermarket tranny cooler - any suggestions on sizing (I've heard that medium size is good, but that's kinda vague)and location (ie, in front of the rad, or the A/C core, behind either, or somewhere else?). Fluid starvation seems likely, as the fluid was pretty frothy when I checked it (post failure). Havin it die isn't so bad, as it did manage to get me home. I got it fairly cheap and its given good service for the last 3 years, so I'm not too p@#$ed (beats making payments)- just bummed about having to drive my brother's 86 Z28 in the snow - just doesn't handle the slippery stuff like my Pathy for some reason... I'll definitely shoot a bunch of pics during the swap, particularly in the spots where the language gets interesting! Tinker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 Check this out for info on the tranny colers... http://www.nissanpathfinders.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=6486 There is also a post in the Garage/How To section about setting up the torque converter you may want to read. Kinda discouraging to be taken for a dolt with more dollars than sense though. I usually avoid any kind of auto repair shop for that very reason. I agree 100% !! I always casually mention that I'm a machinist and do most of my own work on cars, motorcycles, etc and 1/2 the time they STILL try to take me for a fool. WTF is up with that. I just get back by telling everyone I know never to go to the place... I'll definitely shoot a bunch of pics during the swap, particularly in the spots where the language gets interesting! Yep, thats when the write up is needed the most !! Thanks and good luck !! B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
94extreme Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 i am still wondering about this clutch on your auto tranny? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinker Posted December 5, 2005 Author Share Posted December 5, 2005 Thanks for the link and tips - I'll take any advice that makes the job easier! Regarding the clutches in an automagic tranny - these are internal components and are very similar to the clutches found in differentials and motorcycles - not to be confused with the main drive clutch on a standard. I believe the Pathy uses 2 internal clutches (gears 1-2 and gears 3-4), although you should definitely check the FSM if you want the definitive answer. These clutches are controlled automatically by the valves, solenoids, tranny computer, etc... Repair or replacement of either would still require at least partial disassembly of the tranny, with the associated soft parts and electrical parts kits driving the price of rebuild through the roof (if you're lucky enough to even find them). I remember seeing an overhaul kit for this tranny in the local free classifieds paper for $1200 - a little steep given the price of warranteed used trannies! -Tinker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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