leeuniverse Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Hi, happy and not so happy new pathy owner. Tons of stuff to fix on this thing. Between the last owner and myself, already put in $4,000 into it. And maybe another $2,000 to go depending on what I can do myself and all the "door" problems, most of which I didn't know about when buying it. Anyway, I'm aware of the installing a new Transmission Cooler, that the OEM is bugged. I've read all the threads of the forum and on the net on the issue. But I have a question. The warning on this issue says to simply replace the cooler with an aftermarket one. My question is, isn't a New Radiator also an aftermarket item? Couldn't we just stick a new radiator in and that will also solve the problem? I've seen no discussion on this, so it makes me wonder? I ask because it seems about the same price but easier to just stick a new radiator in my 93 Pathy rather than mess with a separate cooler? Then to help keep my Tranny working well I can just use Lucas or whatever, and maybe stick in a simple inline filter? So, my question is, are aftermarket "Radiators" also okay to use, they don't have the defect? Thanks.... p.s. Plan on keeping this thing for a long while, so making it perfect and my baby, and to know everything about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trogdor636 Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 (edited) You said it yourself, you plan on keeping it for a long time. Even with a new radiator, wouldn't you rather have piece of mind knowing you went overboard and don't have to worry about that tiny little stock cooler, and put a nicer, more efficient cooler on it. I don't own a autotragic myself (mainly because of the horror stories) but I would overdo it on a tranny cooler. Edited February 28, 2012 by Trogdor636 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lint Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 For $80.00, I thought my tranny cooler install went super easy. Oh, and lots of people (myself included) really don't like Lucas for too many reasons for me to get into at 07:00. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wd21overland Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 (edited) Hi, happy and not so happy new pathy owner. Tons of stuff to fix on this thing. Between the last owner and myself, already put in $4,000 into it. And maybe another $2,000 to go depending on what I can do myself and all the "door" problems, most of which I didn't know about when buying it. Anyway, I'm aware of the installing a new Transmission Cooler, that the OEM is bugged. I've read all the threads of the forum and on the net on the issue. But I have a question. The warning on this issue says to simply replace the cooler with an aftermarket one. My question is, isn't a New Radiator also an aftermarket item? Couldn't we just stick a new radiator in and that will also solve the problem? I've seen no discussion on this, so it makes me wonder? I ask because it seems about the same price but easier to just stick a new radiator in my 93 Pathy rather than mess with a separate cooler? Then to help keep my Tranny working well I can just use Lucas or whatever, and maybe stick in a simple inline filter? So, my question is, are aftermarket "Radiators" also okay to use, they don't have the defect? Thanks.... p.s. Plan on keeping this thing for a long while, so making it perfect and my baby, and to know everything about it. The main problem with installing a new radiator and using the internal cooler is that it still sucks. Even though the cooler lines go into the radiator none of the fins are dedicated for it. If you havent opened one up before to see it would be hard to explain but basically the transmission fluid is being cooled by the 200+ degree coolant going through the radiator thats getting cooled but its still about 160 degrees after cooled so imagine what temp the trans fluid is still at. I installed a transmission temp gauge a long time ago before i put on the external cooler and it stayed around the 205 degree mark. After the cooler was installed it was around 160. Since Heat is the main killer of our transmission i would never use the internal cooler. To give you a idea of what i'm talking about here is an example the transmission cooler fins are inside the coolant bottom end so there being cooled by the hot coolant in the radiator which is still above around 180 ish so it doesnt work very well. name='leeuniverse' timestamp='1330434575' post='613341'] Edited February 28, 2012 by wd21overland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tungsten Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 I don't know about that radiator but my new radiator was never near 200F. I took the reading from the top of the radiator with a multimeter when the truck was fully up to temp and it sat around 160F. I never bypassed mine and the fluid will get much cooler when it flows inside the external stacked cooler. My transmission will run at about 140F all day and get up to temp quickly in the winter. If your stock cooler is clogging, your transmission is already toast. Also, bypassed or not, installing a filter in the line along with the cooler is the best thing you can do for the transmission other than checking up on the fluid every so often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 (edited) Howdy Lee. Theoretically the aftermarket radiators are not as prone to clogging as the stock units, just like the 1996+ radiators. Different/slightly modified design after learning, but I haven't taken any apart to study the internals. I don't know anyone who has made a definitive study themselves either. I currently have an auto tranny cooled solely by an aftermarket external cooler, about 18,000gvw set up with a filter and temp sensor before it. What I plan to do is make sure the replaced radiator cooler portion is clear (with compressed air) and set up the system like this... Tranny out to filter/sensor to radiator cooler to after market cooler (22,000gvw) back to the tranny. The thought is this: filtered ATF should last longer and and be free of any significant sediment so it shouldn't clog the radiator cooler. The radiator cooler allows the ATF to heat up quicker but also maintain a narrower range of temp for the tranny to operate in. The aftermarket cooler should cool the ATF significantly, perhaps 30-50 degrees cooler, allowing the tranny to maintain lower internal temperature. The temperature gauge gives good feedback on if the system and/or tranny is working correctly. I really can't come up with a significant reason not to set up the system like this as it has all the advantages. Hopefully I'll be setting this up in the next few months. B Edited February 29, 2012 by Precise1 Too funny... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tungsten Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 I have a 24k GVW cooler (biggest that could fit, seriously) run after the radiator cooler. I just need to add a filter in the chain before the radiator and it will be perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeuniverse Posted February 29, 2012 Author Share Posted February 29, 2012 (edited) Right all.... Given everything I had read as well the "ideal" way would be to install a separate cooler as you all have said, but I thought I would ask if anyone had went the other way and just installed a new Radiator. Oki-doki.... I guess I'm just going to have to make a decision. I was looking online and was maybe thinking about replacing the radiator anyway, cause you can get an even cheaper one but without the tranny cooler in it. That might be a good way to go to help the engine run a bit cooler? And then I can still stick on a 20,000gvw+ tranny cooler. Ya, as to Lucas, I've done more research and I'm not going Lucas or Dura-Lube anymore. It looks like the best way to go is to clean out the entire system, fuel, tranny, engine with SeaFoam (have lot's of carbon in everything), and then do an oil change replacing all oils with AmsOil and filter, and then add zMax in all the areas for good metal protection. Although, seems not easy to get AmsOil, so I might have to go with Royal Purple instead (seems Autozone has it), and just change oils a little more often, cause I know it doesn't protect as long and as well as AmsOil. Thanks for the thoughts all, happy to be here. Edited February 29, 2012 by leeuniverse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Towncivilian Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 I don't think there is a point to paying through the nose for boutique oils for anything short of 15k oil change intervals. If you are stuck in the mindset of changing every 3k or so, stick with conventional oils. Otherwise, any name-brand synthetic will do fine for 7.5k mile OCIs; any longer and you would need used oil analysis. The question between conventional vs. synthetic oils is not which one is "better" - it's about which one lasts longer in relation to cost. You should consider your change interval, operating conditions, and then choose the oil, not the other way around! As for oil filters, Wix/NAPA Gold, Purolator, Bosch, Fram (XtendedGuard only, the lower tier ones have horrible construction) are all excellent choices. Of course the Royal Purple, Mobil 1, K&N (which is just an M1 filter w/ nut welded on bottom), Royal Purple, etc are all good choices for extended drains, but there's no need to spend the extra money for those unless you plan on using the same filter for 2 or more OCIs (which is viable; if your engine sheds enough crud to clog a filter in one OCI you have bigger problems) or extended drain intervals. Don't bother using Seafoam, all it is is: 40 - 60% pale oil as a carrier and light lubricant 25 - 35% naptha, a solvent 10 - 20% IPA (isopropyl alcohol) - a solvent and octane booster when used in the gas, which is why some claim a performance increase when using Seafoam, until the next tank without the added IPA! The white plume of smoke generated by Seafoam when ingested via a vacuum line is the pale oil burning up. Carbon generates brown smoke when burning, which is why you sometimes see clouds of brown smoke emanating from other vehicles on a highway on-ramp during high load for example; if one drives like a grandma, faster carbon build up can result and a high load can purge some build up. Pale oil also coats the catalytic converter and oxygen sensors, which can impact the sensor's ability to sense and the catalytic converter's, well, catalysing ability. For fuel system cleaning, use a fuel system cleaner containing polyether amines, which is proven to clean deposits without leaving behind its own residue (SAE paper detailing PEA). Products which are known to contain PEA are Chevron Techron, Gumout Regane, and Redline SI-1. Engine oil blenders spend millions of dollars in research and development to generate a formulation of oil that is designed to meet API requirements and to do the best job lubricating and protecting your engine. Why throw in some harsh solvent such as Seafoam or other snake oil to upset that formulation? If you keep up with oil changes, you should not have any sludge to worry about in the crankcase, and do not require Seafoam or any oil additives for that matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeuniverse Posted February 29, 2012 Author Share Posted February 29, 2012 Thanks for the thoughts.... Lubeman. My issue with the Seafoam is that the previous owner prior to last rarely changed the oil apparently. I have TONS of Carbon/Slud in the engine, heads, exhaust pipes etc. With the SeaFoam I was just going to poor it in the engine, and fuel and let it clean, and maybe get the tranny one and do the same. I wasn't going to do the spray or poor in the vacuum, think you're right about the smoke thing. I was just going to spray a standard cleaner into the vacuum whatever. My current issue is that I'm having to change EVERYTHING in the EGR system. Cause I get an ERG Function 32 error code, which looks like was caused by all that carbon in the system. Changed the Valve, the Sensor, and next going to do the EGR Control Solenoid, then maybe the vacuum canister after than if that doesn't remove the check engine light. Any thoughts? I was also thinking about apparently if you take it to the Dealer the dealer can do a high pressure flush of the engine and the manifold and that can really fix things. But, I was thinking about seeing if Seafoam would more or less do the same. Is there another way other than that expensive process of flushing? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Towncivilian Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 (edited) Mopar Combustion Chamber Cleaner, Amsoil Power Foam, hell even plain water will be just as effective if not more so than Seafoam for top-end cleaning. The first two are sprayed into the throttle chamber with the engine running (follow the instructions on the can) and water is carefully ingested via a vacuum line. Several short oil change intervals (3000 miles or so) of an oil marketed for its cleaning properties such as Pennzoil Yellow Bottle will help clean up any sludge/deposits gently. To clean the fuel system, use any PEA containing cleaner that I mentioned in my previous reply. I don't know much about EGR or other emissions systems, so I don't know what to advise to solve your CEL, sorry. Edited February 29, 2012 by Towncivilian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeuniverse Posted March 1, 2012 Author Share Posted March 1, 2012 I was researching and some say to do the MCCC through the PCV port with a 3/8 inch fuel line? Is that actually a better spot than the Intake? Might be because I changed the PCV valve also and there was a bunch of gunk in it? BTW, I noticed that the MCCC smokes the same as Seafoam (white smoke). But, I guess because it's a PEA it's still better? Discovered it looks very easy to put in an external tranny cooler into the 93 Pathy. Just take off the front grill and run the hoses below and the tranny hoses are both at the bottom of the radiator also. Also, anyone recommend that I put a New Radiator in that doesn't have the cooler in it? Like I mentioned above, would it give me more cooling ability for the engine? Only $80 something bucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Towncivilian Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 MCCC doesn't have PEA in it as far as I know, PEA is only used in fuel system cleaners. I've never heard of anybody sucking MCCC through a vacuum line, I don't think that's how it's supposed to be done. I believe you spray the entire can into the intake with the engine running - obviously gradually as to not stall the engine. A B&M 70268 trans cooler will fit in front of the A/C condenser without any modification to the bumper; I believe anything thicker than 3/4" (which is the thickness of the 70268) won't fit. The 70268 is rated at 19k GVW (10k BTU). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tungsten Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 If you have a WD21, don't try to stuff a 1.5" deep cooler (B&M 70264) like I did in front of the condenser. I had to cut the grill up to get that thing to fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeuniverse Posted March 1, 2012 Author Share Posted March 1, 2012 (edited) Thanks for the reminder.... But when it looked at it, there seemed like there was "at least" an 1 1/2 in the space. But, I'll be sure to do the lower size just in case. Does the PCV hole go to the same spot as if I went through the manifold, or are there some lines/crevices etc. inside the PCV spot that going the manifold way with the foam wouldn't reach? BTW, thanks for telling me the difference between BTU & GVW, I was going nuts trying to figure out which one was around 20,000 GVW or more, because many said BTU only or didn't say anything at all etc. So, it was hard to tell on many which ones had the higher GVW. Edited March 1, 2012 by leeuniverse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeuniverse Posted March 1, 2012 Author Share Posted March 1, 2012 Hey Lubeman...... Do you know if doing the MCCC way will also clean out the Exhaust Manifold? I was reading elsewhere that someone used Amsoil's foaming engine cleaner and a follow-up gum out through a vacuum port will clean the manifolds and the 02 Sensors to eliminate sludge from the throttle body and Idle Control system to help clean things out for better running? I've had the Intake Manifold cleaned because I had to change the Knock Sensor, but not the other/rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now