PathyGig12
-
Posts
407 -
Joined
-
Last visited
-
Days Won
30
Content Type
Profiles
Forums
Calendar
Posts posted by PathyGig12
-
-
26 minutes ago, R50JR said:
A hose clamp on the outer joint will more than likely hit the ball joint. I’d use the proper band for it.
Sent from my PathfinderThis did occur to me but I figured there is only one way to find out. If it does make contact I’ll just source a different band so it’s no biggie
-
Rockford boots installed.
I snapped one of the large clamps while crimping it, so I had to use a hose clamp instead. Should work fine but I’ll keep an eye on it. I also used hose clamps for the 4 smaller clamps around the shaft because for whatever reason it was very hard to get the provided crimp clamps tight in that size. These ones fit perfectly so I’m not too worried about them
This job was fairly easy overall, the only tricky part is that you need a jaw puller for the inner joint bearings. The sucky part, of course, is all the pounds of grease you have to get off and replace. The boot kits came with green grease packets for both the inners and outers. I heard somewhere that you need yellow grease for one joint and green for the other? I went with moly CV grease from StaLube for the inner joints and the green stuff for the outers. Hopefully it’s fine. I like that you don’t have to mess with the outer joint at all since you can slide both boots on from the inner side. Time will tell if the rockfords we’re worth it. They seem pretty beefy
The main thing is all of the clamps are very tight and I wasn’t able to pull the boots loose with any sort of stretching that the CV will do on the truck, even snapping it aggressively to maximum angle several times in a row. I’m happy with that. Now I’m just waiting on the replacement hub snap ring that I ordered
-
1
-
-
1 hour ago, Fr8Train said:
The airbags are $360AUD, but after chatting with some of the guys on the Aussie Pathfinder FB group, I am going a slightly different route now. I am fitting GU Patrol rear springs, the factory Patrol springs fit straight in, and give approx 2-3" of lift and still give a comfortable ride, one of the mods there have them in his and tows regularly with it, and is happy with their performance. Beauty is my local wreckers have some for around $50, so I am getting some of those, will keep you all updated.
That’s fantastic man. As long as they aren’t too heavily used it sounds like they should be great
-
1
-
-
Going back to the first post I think you mentioned there was no upgrade done to the rear springs? If you want to eliminate that sag Id recommend the land rover 9449 coils. I think you should be able to get them shipped there and they seem to just shrug off the weight of anything short of a boat.
I was fully loaded for my last trip with at least 500 lbs counting two people, two pets, two full sized spares, 5 gallons of spare gas, 7 gallons of water, a trunk full of tools and spare parts, coolant, atf, oil, power steering fluid, plus 3 suitcases and a large metal framed backpack on the roof. And the 9449s only compressed about an inch. So the truck ended up riding perfectly level and handled the moab trails without even getting close to bottoming out. The coils make the ride a little rougher when you’re low on weight but I don’t really mind it at all, I think it gives it better handling characteristics anyway
I don’t have any experience with airbags but I’ve heard people say that they are a bit of pain and will eventually fail whereas the 9449s will probably outlast the truck
-
2
-
-
47 minutes ago, R50JR said:
Don’t forget to remove your front driveshaft while you’re down
Sent from my PathfinderIt’s been off since the trip
-
Just ordered the boots from Rockford. I believe the guy said they had 6 of each left so now there should be 4 still on the shelves if anyone wants them.
I took the torn boots off of my OEM axles and I’m trying to figure out the best way to separate the joints from the shaft. I can’t seem to find a thread about it on the forum but maybe I’m not looking hard enough. The inner joint looks like it just pops off if you give it some force with a claw puller, am I on the right track? Surprisingly the grease inside looks very clean and there’s not much crap inside so I think the joints should be fine.
As for grease, I have some of the Sta-lube CV grease but I’ve heard you need different types of grease for the inner and outer joints? Something about green and yellow
-
48 minutes ago, RainGoat said:
Just grab a roof console from the JY
Yeah that’s an option for sure. Just don’t have a whole lot of time these days. Most of my free time for working on the truck is at night after work
Ill have to schedule a day to hit up some junk yards and look for the replacement rear hatch as well.
-
Trying to figure out which stickers I like better. I might take some off depending on whether I like the glow in the dark ones or not
-
Switch panel installed. It was shockingly easy compared to my previous rats nest because the switches came prewired to have a shared ground and shared positive, so all I had to do was run the signal wires to each switch and cut out all of the old wiring that I no longer need. They work great and I love the new look. The color is fairly close but, just a little off
I’ve got it hooked up to the main forward lights, fogs, reverse lights, and my red map lights so far. The camera is going to go to the “radar” switch lol, but I need to repair the wiring first since it got messed up at some point while driving. I’m saving the alien torpedo switch for something really cool, haven’t decided yet
I do need to do something about the old holes for my previous panel, thats gonna bug the hell out of me
-
1
-
1
-
-
2 hours ago, Slartibartfast said:
The snap ring holds the sealing surface on the CV against the seal on the back of the knuckle to keep the wheel bearing sealed up. I wouldn't expect it to change the ability of the hub to lock and unlock. Sometimes snap rings get deformed during install and removal (stretch them a little too far and they don't spring back), so it might've come free on its own, but that doesn't explain how it got itself wedged into the hub mechanism. I guess if it was bouncing around in there while the hub was freewheeling, it might've caught between a part that was moving and a part that wasn't and sort of rolled itself into where you found it.
Yeah that’s my guess as well. I’ll source a new one before reinstalling the CVs. But in the mean time while they’re out I’ll take the opportunity to reboot them with the Rockford boots. I just need to call tomorrow and place an order
Ive painted the switch panel metallic charcoal to match the fenders but haven’t had a chance install it yet. Waiting on switches still
-
6 hours ago, RainGoat said:
It’s worth noting that those of us with ATX14A transmissions are in the minority. The system is also not just a straightforward center lock. It’s a good practice with anything driveline related on this forum to assume that it might not apply to an ATX14A. That admittedly takes a while on the forum to realize.
I think you’ll find the majority would like a manual part-time R50. I bought my truck new & specifically picked the ATX14A. The majority of offroad exploration doesn’t require a locked center & AWD avoids the understeer that induces. It is particularly helpful on loose surfaces where control is your primary concern and your risk of actually being bogged is low. It’s particularly useful if you encounter inclement on-road weather - which is nearly all the time here in the PNW & probably true in winter in snowy regions. I have part-time 4WD in my 5th Gen 4Runner & if I’m honest, I’ll nearly never use its rear locker (especially with ATRAC) but I would use the AWD on the Limited nearly daily. I expect it’s true ours isn’t as hardy but since I’m not a crawler that doesn’t really bother me.Yup, the atx14a has its pros and cons. Demystifying it has been one of my main focuses and I’m constantly trying to learn more about what it does in different situations and then pass that on to others so it becomes less of a black box and diagnosing issues becomes easier to do
-
1 hour ago, hawairish said:
I've never heard of boot-saving as a selling point for hubs. And hearing it now, I'd never consider it one. It's not what manual hubs are for.
If you want to make the case that manual hubs on an all-mode truck with AC springs will still break boots, you may. I'll still consider incorrect and misleading, which is why R50JR was calling it misinformation. No one said it would prevent boot failure. Any form of lift—AC spring or not, all-mode or part-time, SFD or not, spacers or not, manual hubs or not, rotating or not—will cause boot wear. A boot being constantly stretch, whether rotating or not, will still lead to premature failure. The boots are plastic, and plastic degrades. YMMV.
I'm sure the Rockford boots will be a major improvement if you're willing to pay the premium, but being a thicker material and still being stretched, my expectation is that they'll eventually just pull out from the band. There's no difference between a torn boot, and an unseated booted, in terms of grease retention. Again, the issue is the spring. If pulling the driveshaft is the only alternative for you, so be it.
I believe the problem here is that I fell for misinformation about manual hubs. I distinctly remember reading about how they help save CV boots from tearing, and I suppose I just ran with that idea without looking into it more. So I think the issue everyone has with what I’m saying is the fact that it’s predicated on the idea of manual hubs being boot-savers, which I have come to realize isn’t actually true, even though I’ve seen it said before.
Nevertheless, I do still think that it makes sense from a physics standpoint that a non spinning CV will experience less boot wear overall (all other things being equal), even if that reduction in wear is not as significant as I initially thought, seeing as how the stretching can also occur from suspension travel and turning. Since the rotation causes additional stretching and compressing of any given point on the boot for every revolution, it stands to reason that it must cause some amount of additional wear compared to a boot that is only experiencing the non-spinning wear from the lift stretching itself. If you disagree, that’s fine. I’m not trying to change anyone’s mind, just explaining my reasoning
Anyway, I’ve already caused way too much disruption to the thread and for that I apologize. Let’s move on
-
2 hours ago, PathyDude17 said:
Oh boy. I'll chime in on a runaway thread, against my better judgement
When I first installed my spacer lift w/o manual hubs, my (presumably) OEM CV axles split almost immediately at the inner boots, I believe it was the inners first then eventually the outers got gnarly too. From what I gather, most boots split on a fresh lift, especially if the axles are old.
On my 03 SE w/ the manual shift t case, I have had my current set of axles for about 1.5 years. I just pulled some junkyard axles in hopes they were OEM. At least one of them isn't (my driver side axle, relevant info later). These boots likely have tens, if not hundreds of thousands of miles on them. They were pulled off a stock R50 w/o manual hubs. The boots have experienced severe ranges of temperatures while on my vehicle, everything from -20 *F to 100 *F.
I put them on several months after installing AC springs. I think the axles went on in July of 2019, and the AC springs in April of 2019.
The entire time I have had those 07/19 axles on, I have had manual hubs. I still inevitably have put some typical road miles on them with hubs locked at speeds of up to 70mph, but mostly its only dirt miles with 4WD usage.
These axles have seen approximately 20,000 miles of on pavement driving w/ hubs unlocked. They have endured two winters that saw minor 4WD usage (~10-20 miles of 4WD per winter season?), and many camping trips and trail outings that lead to locked hubs, 4WD, and full (measly) travel of the front suspension. These miles likely are in excess of 300 miles. My most recent trip was over 100 dirt/4WD miles. I have enough videos on youtube to indicate what kind of stresses my axles experience.
I've had a lokka since May of 2020, and probably half of my wheeling/wintering/4WDing has been done with this lokka installed. Whether this has a discernable or predictable affect on wear is up to speculation.
After all that, looking today, my driver side (the not OEM axle) outer boot is greasy (light film of grease, but not flinging grease everywhere), with every other boot on the vehicle being bone dry.
Some basic math: The ~300 toughest miles my axles have experienced, spread across 18 months, has had not so nearly as bad a result as your moderate/light usage (though probably higher than 300 miles) across a shorter time span. This is comparable, as we are on identical front suspension (arguably you have the advantage with the weight of your front bumper). So there's at least two different axles that can put up with the AC lift + the upper limits of what my R50 can safely handle off road. I would speculate the same would be true of your situation.
Thanks for listening to that lengthy anecdote. Take this for what it is. Maybe you'll just have to go up to the Rockfords, but I'm not fully convinced that your experience is totally normal.
I appreciate your input as always.
I’d like to hear what you think might be abnormal about my set up to cause premature boot failure? Even just judging by some of the other responses to this thread from users with AC coils, it seems that if anything, your current boots are the real
outliers here. That’s awesome that you’ve got good ones that have lasted so long though.
-
I didn’t end up getting any pics last night because my hands were covered in grease and it was 2am so I just wanted to get everything done. I’ll try to snap a pic of the damage to the warn hub
-
1
-
-
I was replacing the control arms last night and ran into an issue. After putting the new ones on I found out the lower ball joint on the right side was completely shot and had a lot of clunking movement when I twisted the wheel back and forth, so I ended up needing to take the CV shaft out to get the ball
joint swapped over to the spare I had.
When I went to remove the cap from the warn hub so I could access the snap ring on the shaft, I noticed that it was nowhere to be found. After a bit of fiddling I realized the hub wasn’t working properly and was locked to the shaft even though it was supposed to be unlocked. Uh oh. Eventually I figured out that the snap ring had wedged itself in between the shaft and the center ring inside the hub, so it took me half an hour to get it sorted out. I had to take out the inner hub ring, and then pry the snap ring until it had enough clearance so that I could hammer the axle out the back side with a brass punch. The ring was totally mangled and in front of the bearing washer/plate there was a pile of fine metal shavings from where it was grinding the housing of the warn hub.
I’m baffled as to what could cause the snap ring to get stuck in the hub. I always install it the same way, and there shouldn’t be enough clearance to get it stuck in there. I’m also wondering whether I should even replace it? Since the warn is chewed up I’m switching to the mile markers I have in the garage but is it possible I could run into engagement issues without the snap ring? I know there’s no way for the axle to pull out without the snap ring since there’s a lot of clearance required to pull it out, but if it isn’t in quite the right spot it might affect the ability of the hub to lock. I’m just worried it will happen again and it sucks not knowing what caused it
On the plus side, with the new ball joint and control arms installed, the truck is completely free of any clunking over rough terrain and there’s no more steering wheel shimmy on the freeway. The other side ball joint was perfectly tight so I wonder if this was just a fluke quality control issue. They’re from 1A Auto, so not the highest quality parts.
-
16 minutes ago, RainGoat said:
The Rockfords are the only notable variant I’ve heard of. Undoubtedly more hardy but I don’t know if they’re sized differently. There’s a thread somewhere I read years ago, I’d search that up.
Yeah I’ll be placing an order for them some time this week. Even in the best case scenario of no CV rotation with the shaft removed, you’re right that the stretching will still exist so I want the best boots available. I wonder if anyone who has installed them could weigh in on their longevity? I can’t remember who has them
-
3 hours ago, AR97Pathfinder said:
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkYeah those things look way too beefy to work. Even if they fit they would probably made the truck ride like a wagon from the 1800s
-
1
-
-
5 minutes ago, RainGoat said:
Stretching means the compression & stretch from your suspension going up & down, not static stretch. I expect just turning stretches it as well. The more lifted a truck is, the greater the pretension on the boot & the more likely that you’ll get material fatigue. The CV joint spinning inside doesn’t come into it. Even if the CV were disengaged - the boot would be going through all the same motions.
I actually deleted my earlier post as, upon contemplation, I realized it was pointless to comment after@hawairish had weighed in. That guy has forgotten more about every part of these trucks than I’ve ever known.
See now at least that makes sense. The turning and suspension travel definitely causes the stretching as well, I hadn’t even considered those.
But it doesn’t mean that the boot wear isn’t also caused by spinning. When you turn a CV and watch the boot, one side is compressed while the other is stretched. At an extreme angle, this means a lot of stretching and compressing of each part of the boot as you drive. Whether this wears on it more than the other motions you mentioned, I don’t know.
Regardless, it does make me wonder whether there are boots that might give more room for this stretching and last longer. I know they make high angle boots for Toyota’s but I don’t think anything exists for our trucks. It would probably have to be something designed for a larger and longer CV joint and then adapted to still clamp to the R50 CVs
-
10 minutes ago, RainGoat said:
The boot wears from the stretch of the lift, not the revolution of the CV. The spinning of the CV is essentially inconsequential to boot wear, it would primarily effect the mechanics of the CV - and reduction if wear has always been theoretical. Probably some mpgs saved but there has always been a significant group of owners who find this improvement marginal. The ONLY reason I personally would put them in for myself is to aid in CV replacement - although my risk for needing that is very low. The primary ways to avoid CV failure are prudent driving & minimizing lift. THIS IS NOTHING NEW & something present in the forum for more than a handful of years.
Lift is fun but as someone who took a largely stock rig over most of the CO passes except Black Bear, it’s mostly about how you drive. Expecting it to behave as a hard core rock crawler comes with lots if caveats & probably best left to those who are both experienced drivers & mechanics. Getting to that point is going to have sacrifices & it looks like boot destruction & possibly reconfiguring the suspension may be one of those costs to be paid. That said, I know of a handful of owners who haven’t had your experience. It’s an outlier for sure & I would take the opportunity for a little introspection. Honestly, if you find yourself arguing with people like hawairish, it’s probably time to take stock of your own presumptions.
I don’t find myself arguing with anyone at the moment. I’m honestly a bit confused why this is so controversial. I was simply giving my experience with boot wear and warning those who didn’t know about the behavior of the auto mode Tcase with manual hubs. In fact, since I found this out I have been in agreement with you that the manual hubs are mostly a waste of money with this set up. I haven't gotten any better mileage either, and I don’t wheel recklessly enough to need to change half shafts on the trail.
It’s interesting that you mention that the boot wear is due to the excessive stretching of the boots from the amount of lift alone, and not related at all to the rotation of the axles. So what you’re saying is if I took a brand new CV and left it on my desk with the angle stretched to maximum, the boots should be expected to spontaneously tear after a few months of sitting like that?
I’m no expert but something elastic doesn’t typically break from being held at a constant, normally it’s from being stretched and compressed repeatedly, which is what happens with the boots while the CVs are spinning at extreme angles. Again, I don’t have any research to back this up, it just makes the most sense in my mind from a physics standpoint. I’ll make sure to keep an eye on my boots while the front shaft is removed to see if they still split when completely stationary, but I have my doubts. It’s possible it’ll happen eventually due to environmental factors like the rubber drying out, being affected by road grime and salt, but that sort of thing will likely take a lot longer to happen
-
4 hours ago, dogla said:
+1 on AC springs. I had them on a previous build (heavy duty set all around) which gave the truck somewhat 3" of lift supposedly. I measured before and after but of course the springs and shocks were still new and maybe still needed to "settle". When I had that set my shocks always bottomed out (or topped out
) when going a bit aggresive over (speed)bumps and my boots were tearing within a few months. Also at some point my front drive shaft developed some play and really vibrated the truck violently at certain speeds and the shocks compress. Removed and sold the springs and went back to stock ride hight (put in a set of A1 Cardones) and never had a torn boot since. That was at least 6y ago. Also have manual lockers on for about a year now.
Sent from my SM-G973U1 using Tapatalk
Exactly
-
4 hours ago, hawairish said:
What's there to be pissed about? The point of hubs is to prevent the front drivetrain from creating load via the front wheels. The driveshaft spinning from residual drag from the t-case? The ATX uses clutches that don't fully disengage...it seems expected to me and is probably negligible overall. Keeping the driveshaft removed seems asinine to me because it's not the problem.
Your boots are splitting because your AC springs are maxing out the suspension and causing the boots to always be stretched. This is also bad for the CV because of a significantly higher amount of oscillations than if it were flatter. Guys that have less/no lift or an SFD will always see less boot wear because their boots aren't constantly stretching out. The problem is the AC springs and nothing else.
Yes I know that the AC springs are maxing the suspension and that this is the cause of the boot failure. My point is that people who use the AC springs up front need to be aware of the fact that the auto mode TCase still spins the front even with manual hubs. This info is important so that people don’t expect the hubs to save them from boot wear. We are in total agreement that with any other springs the boot wear would be a lot less, but with the AC springs specifically, the only way to stop the excessive boot wear is to either change springs or make sure the front isn’t spinning most of the time. And this isn’t being accomplished by manual hubs when you have the auto mode Tcase. That’s my entire point.
When I said that I was “pissed” about the TCase still spinning, it was due to the fact that this information was not common knowledge when I went to buy the hubs. Everyone was listing heavily reduced boot wear as a benefit of the hubs, which turned out to not be completely true for this set up. That’s why I was annoyed and why I want to continue letting others know.
Many of us cannot afford to do a SFD, or it is too intense of an operation for our skill level. People naturally still want maximum lift, and often choose to run the AC coils for this reason, so it’s a piece of info that I believe is important for them to consider.
As far as my personal boot wear experience being abnormal, I don’t believe anything else is wrong with the truck. Like you said, it’s from the AC springs and nothing else. Since I don’t want to change to different springs, I’m leaving the front shaft off for most of my driving. Very easy to put it back on for wheeling trips.
-
5 hours ago, R50JR said:
The shafts do not spin at the same rate as locked while unlocked. The drag is simply from the transfer case (clutches). The wear on the boots is minimal even with this drag, so the wear is not the same. Replacing cv boots is a very simple process and would not have to be done often. Please reconsider the information you’re trying to spread. It is not completely accurate and qualifies as misinformation.I disagree. I’ve been through three sets of CVs since I put on the manual hubs and the boots always split within a couple of months. On one set of Cardone CVs, the boots gave out after just 3 weeks. Changing the shafts themselves has been easier for me than doing just the boots, so I have yet to give that a go and can’t comment on the difficulty of doing so.
Even if the shafts are spinning at a slower rate they are still spinning constantly, which certainly wears the boots faster than not spinning at all. The exact rate of wear is going to depend on the angles of the joints and the material of the boots.
I don’t see how my personal experience with manual hubs and boot wear qualifies as “misinformation”, so I’ll continue spreading it so that others have as much info as possible. That’s the point of this forum, isn’t it? We already have few enough active members sharing their pathfinder experiences, I think every bit of info we can get out there is going to be helpful for others who are looking to build up their R50s
-
10 hours ago, dogla said:
Exactly what I did. I still have both OEM axles stored and can swap them anytime I need to. The axles were stll good, I just replaced both when one of them got it's boot torn. And since I have manual lockers now the current axles will stay in the same condition even longer.
Sent from my SM-G973U1 using Tapatalk
Not necessarily. For those with the auto mode dial on the dash, the CVs will continue to spin from residual drag in the case and the boot wear will be the same even with the manual hubs. But if you have the part time transfer case with the short stick for 4WD, the manual hubs will stop the CVs from spinning. This pissed me off when I found out so I’ve been trying to spread the word everywhere I can.
My passenger side CV boots are torn but I have the OEM shafts with the best range of motion so I want to keep them as long as possible. When I do the rebooting I’m going to place an order with Rockford to make sure I get the high quality thermoplastic ones, and then I plan to leave the hubs unlocked and have my front drive shaft in the cargo compartment, only putting it back on for wheeling/snow driving to save the boots. I don’t mind tightening 8 bolts a handful of times a year to save myself from constantly buying new CVs. The thermoplastic boots will last much longer but they will still eventually split if I leave the front drive shaft installed
-
fresh off the boat-
1
-
PathyGig12’s Build Thread
in 96-2004 R50 Pathfinders
Posted
It won’t hit while spinning because I’ll be able to line it up with the ball joint when I’m reinstalling the axle and see if there’s enough clearance. I’m not going to let it spin without knowing that it clears, that would be quite dumb