Earth1 Posted November 3, 2007 Share Posted November 3, 2007 As for getting hot about the US politics..... It just happens that it effects the whole world. Most on this site don't have a clue that it does and bag me for saying what I say. They seem to love having their collective heads deep in the sand. They either don't have the intellect to form sound opinions regarding politics or just don't care. In any case, both scenarios are as bad as each other. I don't blame the public entirely. I really believe since the Reagan years the corporatist right has devised and instituted a plan to destroy American middle class. They saw the effect of a bunch of educated baby boom hippies on the conservative agenda, and wanted to end it. They did away with teaching critical thinking and (for all intents and purposes) civics. I don't know about Australia, but in US high schools civics is a joke. We are given a semester each of econ and government. Most people of my generation (I'm 30) don't have a clue of how their government works, and really aren't taught that it matters. Magnifying the situation is an unstable economy due to corporate greed and insane trade policies and you can see what I mean about the middle class diminishing. The void of critical thinking has been filled with materialism and all kinds of other unimportant crap like American Idol, etc. The result is a generation of apathetic programmed money chasers. Why should anyone care about the gov when they're too busy trying to get by? If by some miracle Hillary weren't to win the primary, I would support probably any other candidate, but by far I am a fan of Kucinich. How about a Dennis Kucinich/Wesley Clark ticket! Great discussion guys. I'll try to stay in touch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vsicks Pathy Posted November 3, 2007 Share Posted November 3, 2007 (edited) I kind of like Giuliani's way of thinking. He ascertains that Iran is an enemy. Why? Because someone says so? I mean to say, I have not heard that Iran was going to attack the USA anytime soon. I am not even sure that they are or ever have been in violation of any international laws that are so damned important as to warrant the term of enemy. All I hear is war drums beating in Washington. F*ck the IAEA and their findings. Ignore any and all facts when they are presented to Bush's murderous oil regime, or better still, drown them out by beating the drums of war even louder. This sh!t sounds funny and it would be except it isn't a comedy script. And the line about begging actually beggars belief. Is he suggesting that the USA and international community begged North Korea to come to the negotiation table too? Thinking people don't fall for the blatant BS. Too many people aren't thinking at all, and that is the root of the mess we find ourselves in. Edited November 3, 2007 by Vsicks Pathy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vsicks Pathy Posted November 3, 2007 Share Posted November 3, 2007 I don't blame the public entirely. I really believe since the Reagan years the corporatist right has devised and instituted a plan to destroy American middle class. They saw the effect of a bunch of educated baby boom hippies on the conservative agenda, and wanted to end it. They did away with teaching critical thinking and (for all intents and purposes) civics. I don't know about Australia, but in US high schools civics is a joke. We are given a semester each of econ and government. Most people of my generation (I'm 30) don't have a clue of how their government works, and really aren't taught that it matters. Magnifying the situation is an unstable economy due to corporate greed and insane trade policies and you can see what I mean about the middle class diminishing. The void of critical thinking has been filled with materialism and all kinds of other unimportant crap like American Idol, etc. The result is a generation of apathetic programmed money chasers. Why should anyone care about the gov when they're too busy trying to get by? If by some miracle Hillary weren't to win the primary, I would support probably any other candidate, but by far I am a fan of Kucinich. How about a Dennis Kucinich/Wesley Clark ticket! Great discussion guys. I'll try to stay in touch. You are the hammer and what you just wrote was the nail. If only it could be driven home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vsicks Pathy Posted November 3, 2007 Share Posted November 3, 2007 And in case you missed it. This for all that give a rats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
94extreme Posted November 3, 2007 Author Share Posted November 3, 2007 I kind of like Giuliani's way of thinking. He ascertains that Iran is an enemy. Why? Because someone says so? I mean to say, I have not heard that Iran was going to attack the USA anytime soon. I am not even sure that they are or ever have been in violation of any international laws that are so damned important as to warrant the term of enemy. All I hear is war drums beating in Washington. F*ck the IAEA and their findings. Ignore any and all facts when they are presented to Bush's murderous oil regime, or better still, drown them out by beating the drums of war even louder. This sh!t sounds funny and it would be except it isn't a comedy script. And the line about begging actually beggars belief. Is he suggesting that the USA and international community begged North Korea to come to the negotiation table too? Thinking people don't fall for the blatant BS. Too many people aren't thinking at all, and that is the root of the mess we find ourselves in. iran is a foe.. or maybe we are iran's foe. since 78 we sure aren't getting along.. iran is in violations of international laws.. they do sponsor terrorism and have for decades.. they are stirring things up in Iraq, they aren't all open about their nuke energy.. they meddle in Lebanon and "Palestine"... they probably meddle in afghanistan too.. is that a reason to attack? well, that's more real reasons then iraq invasion ever had. lol do i agree that US should "keep up the pressure?" yes.. with bombs? NO. war seems to come way too easily to the republicans... especially those so proud of their "turn the other cheeck" bibles. the war drums are beating though and most people are sheep.. at this point it is kind of out of the people's hands. we can't really do a thing about it.. hopefully the guys and dolls on the hill can weather the storms and not allow any more terror from the white house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
94extreme Posted November 3, 2007 Author Share Posted November 3, 2007 And in case you missed it. This for all that give a rats. yeah, not my favorite bloke at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vsicks Pathy Posted November 3, 2007 Share Posted November 3, 2007 America is a foe.. or maybe we are America's foe. since 78 we sure aren't getting along.. America is in violations of international laws.. they do sponsor terrorism and have for decades.. they are stirring things up in Iraq, they aren't all open about their nuke energy.. they meddle in Lebanon and "Palestine"... they probably meddle in afghanistan too.. is that a reason to attack? well, that's more real reasons then iraq invasion ever had. lol Sorry to word play you mz, but it is really much of a muchness. But seriously, lets not forget who threw the first punches, and they were all low blows too I might add. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
94extreme Posted November 3, 2007 Author Share Posted November 3, 2007 rofl.. oh man too funny. :D i'll have to brush up on iran. I'll be back! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
94extreme Posted November 4, 2007 Author Share Posted November 4, 2007 to me it seems we brought on the islamic revolution in iran on "ourselves." it also looke like the brits meddled over there while they meddled in iraq in the 1920s. in a way, we our rethoric, we maybe just feeding the monster some more. seems like Iran is already kind of OBL paridise. going to war with iran anytime soon just doesn't seem prudent. gw really screwed things up i think. personally i don't think US economy is going to completely flop anytime soon either.. i'd be more worried about china's domination instead of being thrilled. i don't trust them either.. they are similar to russia in many respects and i surely don't trust the russians. they's both screw the "west" (that's you too) anytime they could. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vsicks Pathy Posted November 4, 2007 Share Posted November 4, 2007 (edited) to me it seems we brought on the islamic revolution in iran on "ourselves." it also looke like the brits meddled over there while they meddled in iraq in the 1920s. in a way, we our rethoric, we maybe just feeding the monster some more. seems like Iran is already kind of OBL paridise. going to war with iran anytime soon just doesn't seem prudent. gw really screwed things up i think. personally i don't think US economy is going to completely flop anytime soon either.. i'd be more worried about china's domination instead of being thrilled. i don't trust them either.. they are similar to russia in many respects and i surely don't trust the russians. they's both screw the "west" (that's you too) anytime they could. It is ironic that Iran was progressive and moving away from fundamentalism until the US decide it would be better off putting a dictator in charge. It went down hill from there. Any idea of the lives lost and ruined because of America? These people have a very long memory and don't forget too easily. The CIA call this "blow back" (any unintended consequences of the American policies........). In other words, you reap what you sew. I posted a link 23 Jan 2006 in this very thread that eluded to where the problem began. You may have missed it or didn't recall it. This is some of what Bill Clinton had to say....... "Iran's a whole different kettle of fish—but it's a sad story that really began in the 1950s when the United States deposed Mr. Mossadegh, who was an elected parliamentary democrat, and brought the Shah back in—[comments in background—Rose says "CIA"] and then he was overturned by the Ayatollah Khomeini, driving us into the arms of one Saddam Hussein. Most of the terrible things Saddam Hussein did in the 1980s he did with the full, knowing support of the United States government, because he was in Iran, and Iran was what it was because we got rid of the parliamentary democracy back in the '50s; at least, that is my belief. I know it is not popular for an American ever to say anything like this, but I think it's true [applause], and I apologized when President Khatami was elected. I publicly acknowledged that the United States had actively overthrown Mossadegh and I apologized for it, and I hope that we could have some rapprochement with Iran. I think basically the Europeans' initiative to Iran to try to figure out a way to defuse the nuclear crisis is a good one." I am not too worried about China's domination at all, though it must be said, I do find the notion of one country controlling everything sickening. Absolute power corrupts absolutely, as we see happening now, and there is none more corrupt than the regime in power at the White House. Let's be honest, could China be any worse than the USA? If anything, China has a proven track record when it comes to dealing with other countries. China don't make threats to obtain oil, they do not dictate terms and force conditions on other countries. Quite the opposite, they tend to build partnerships and inject massive amounts of money into resourses and infrastructure too. They certainly don't threaten to blow them up and steel their wealth. As for getting screwed, I really don't know. I suppose we will have to wait and see. Perhaps if we indeed got screwed and fort back because we didn't like it, we will be the next 'peoples' deemed to be terrorist or insurgents. I wonder what countries would house us after our secret flights, we, you and I, the "new generation" of detainees/ilegal enemy combatants. I certainly hope we would be treated well, you know, like the current detainees. My fear is that precedents have been set already. Edited November 4, 2007 by Vsicks Pathy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vsicks Pathy Posted November 4, 2007 Share Posted November 4, 2007 Oooops, to cement what I said about the way China does business, I forgot to put this little link in. I wonder how many (not just Americans) know what Bush is up to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
94extreme Posted November 4, 2007 Author Share Posted November 4, 2007 Oooops, to cement what I said about the way China does business, I forgot to put this little link in. I wonder how many (not just Americans) know what Bush is up to? china also has proven record of being shady as hell and they'll roll their army outjust as quick if not quicker then US. it's a little bit too early to tell however. they've only been preferred trading partner for less then 10y. once they really stand up on their own two, we'll see. same with russia, man. the syria issue is really an israeli one. i wish we'd quit meddling there too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vsicks Pathy Posted November 4, 2007 Share Posted November 4, 2007 the syria issue is really an israeli one. That would be true if the USA wasn't bombing them, but they are aren't they. Need oil, will attack should be written in the new constitution, or is it there already? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vsicks Pathy Posted November 5, 2007 Share Posted November 5, 2007 Tell me what you think about this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
94extreme Posted November 5, 2007 Author Share Posted November 5, 2007 i like this comment the best: Israel will be faced with even more determined aggression and the Gulf States unrest at best... let's roll.. liberating gays and women, US has been smearing ElBaradei again at least all of this year. and yeah sure seems i have seen this before.. hmmm.. i wonder where... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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