New Lifters

[Chriskaw440]

update: Just removed the lifter assembly, and I was right about the suspect lifter, but, when I removed it, the pad on it is worn halfway through! actually gotten concaved in shape...thus why it looked like it was sitting lower than the others in the lifter block.

 

you know how when you look at the lifter pad...(what rides on the camshaft) it looks like there are TWO SECTIONS to it, kinda like two solid washers stacked on top of each other....

 

well half of that is gone...worn away, and its only been driven about 25 to 30 miles maybe since putting them in. I am HOPING it was just a bad lifter that was somehow stuck....

 

it seemed to be well oiled, and the oil passages all had fresh oil running out of them when was removing the assembly.

 

All I can think of doing for now is to put another lifter in it and see what happens..even though I am sure that cam lobe is well worn now LOL.

 

weirdness....

[Chriskaw440]

reassembled, ran for a couple minutes without rocker arm cover on to visually see....quiet as church now, saw great oil flow around all lifters and such.

 

Time to go to wal mart for my test ride (I'm out of printing paper for my work/computer!!) so keeping my fingers crossed.

 

 

I noticed this time when it cranked it....no tapping whatsoever. Friday night after putting all the new lifters in...there was some tapping like crazy for about 5 minutes until it pretty much

stopped...... I'm wondering if it was that one lifter I removed tonight. (remember I replaced it with one of the old ones now)

 

We'll what happens over the next couple days

[MY1PATH]

yes the lifter is cast and machined and then Hardend Higer carbon steel pad is attached to the bearing surface.

It sounds like the new lifter may have not been rotating causing it to burn out in one spot or it was inferior pad and wore so it wouldn't turn? when you replaced it did it rotate freely in the lifter journal?

 

 

[Chriskaw440]

Here is a comparison shot..... one of the original lifters on the left, the NEW lifter, with only a few miles on it, on the right.... the toothpick is there to show how much was worn off the pad.

 

Hmmm...should I try to get my money back??? Maybe next time I will spring for the high dollar ones. (remember, everything else associated with the operation of the lifters works fine)

 

bad new lifter...

Edited February 3, 2010 by Chriskaw440

[porsche4786]

 

 

Frustrated. Another reason I liked Rotary engines much better.

 

 

 

AGREED!

[Chriskaw440]

AGREED!

 

 

I miss my rotaries!!! had 3 RX-7s....all first generations. God those engines ran soooo smooth and quiet (except for the racing exhaust I had on them!)

 

and now back to the lifters....all new, all installed beautifully...checked and double checked, rocker arms nice and tight upon installation, oil flow good...Don't see how things could

go back together any better without replacing EVERYTHING like the cams, lifter block(s), rocker arms and shafts, lifters...etc etc.........

 

and now they are back to being just about as noisy as the old ones were. Don't have the bucks to get all the parts mentioned above to do it all again so I guess I'll just have to be

the unfortunate one in town to have the stupid "sounds like a sewing machine" engine.

[MY1PATH]

Did you use any kind of additive to break in the lifters? This is crucial, new oils nolonger contain whats called ZDDP which is a wear reducing agent not required in newer engines so it was removed for emission requirement. Without it, ESPECIALLY IN THE FIRST 500 MILES, lifter and cam wear is accelerated.

once the damage is done it is done. down the road if you afford to try again, schnieder formula 2 combined with a qt or 2 or royal purple or brad penn racing oil(those 2 still contain zddp) and run the engine @ 2krpm for the first 15-20 min so the cams create the best wear pattern in the lifter and so the lifter has the most optimal oil supply and preassure to avoid wear.

 

don't think I'm blowing smoke, I just installed re-ground cams and my new lifters are silent.

[Chriskaw440]

Did you use any kind of additive to break in the lifters? This is crucial, new oils nolonger contain whats called ZDDP which is a wear reducing agent not required in newer engines so it was removed for emission requirement. Without it, ESPECIALLY IN THE FIRST 500 MILES, lifter and cam wear is accelerated.

once the damage is done it is done. down the road if you afford to try again, schnieder formula 2 combined with a qt or 2 or royal purple or brad penn racing oil(those 2 still contain zddp) and run the engine @ 2krpm for the first 15-20 min so the cams create the best wear pattern in the lifter and so the lifter has the most optimal oil supply and preassure to avoid wear.

 

don't think I'm blowing smoke, I just installed re-ground cams and my new lifters are silent.

 

Nope...I didn't see any mention of that anywhere before. I've only used Lucas oil treatment recently. They were quiet as a church mouse for a while but I've noticed now they have gradually gotten noisier. Probably about 400 to 600 miles since I did the replacement...I'll have to look in my maintenance book where I record everything. Only use the truck around town once in a while since I work from home...and not driven hard. (my wife's car is more comfortable!)

 

edit: just checked mileage, its been about 560 miles since doing the lifters. Had I known about the oil deal I would have taken those steps.

I've also done some reading now regarding LUCAS OIL STABILIZER and how it is junk along with other so called 'oil stabilizers'...just thickens up

and can cause aeration in the oil (trapped air bubbles). Apparantly LUCAS OIL STABILIZER used to contain ZDDP but I saw where THAT one is no longer

available in stores.

 

Using diesel oils is also kind of frowned upon for use in regular gas engines for various reasons I won't go into here...well because they are designed for

DIESELS and their high compression and blah blah blah...

 

Since I am past my break in period with my new lifters and I'm sure the cam lobes are slightly worn anyway both from the wear of the new lifters and just from

being over 20 years old now...I am considering changing to 20w-50 as classic car engine builders and soforth say this is fine to use in older engines with the

only negative thing being a slight reduction in gas mileage.

 

Basically all I ever heard before I did the lifter job was "just replace them like the manual says and you're good to go". No mention of the oil issue.

If by some miracle a chunk of cash lands in my lap....I'd do the replacement again.

 

The engine still runs awesome and does not blow smoke or consume oil...for having 252,722 miles on it. Gotta keep it running for as long as it can.

Edited April 21, 2010 by Chriskaw440

[Chriskaw440]

Well even though its a little after the fact, I changed the oil to Valvoline VR1 20w 50 as this has ZDDP in it, probably not as much as it USED too but its all I could find at the moment. Autozone

used to carry a Rislone oil additive that had ZDDP in it for about 12 bucks but the store says they had to pull it from the shelves, even though their web site says they still sell it.

 

Took it for a spin for a while and its definitely quieter. I was also starting to have a slight rear main seal leak so the heavier weight oil may slow that down a tad also.

 

With the high mileage on my engine, the extra protection can't hurt anything.

[jj big shoe]

Hmmm...I have to try that. My lifters have been ticking since I put the reground cams in. I hadn't really noticed over the exhaust leak(s), but now that I fixed that, sounds like I have a Nissan sewing machine.

[Chriskaw440]

Hmmm...I have to try that. My lifters have been ticking since I put the reground cams in. I hadn't really noticed over the exhaust leak(s), but now that I fixed that, sounds like I have a Nissan sewing machine.

 

well so far, 20w 50 VR1 is my new best friend... definitly quieter running, will never be like new again, but I'm happier for now.