Engine Won't Turn

[Slick]

This is the latest, I replaced the starter again, replaced the ignition wires, evrything seemed fine, tried to start the car, it wouldn't start right away, but the battery terminals were not hot, no smoke, or smell from the starter, went back in the car, tried a couple more times to start, finally it turned on, still smoking the white-light blue smoke, strong smell of fuel in the smoke itself. I am willing to bet it is an injector at this point. I will try to run the codes from the ECU, I guess the best way is to remove the front seat to access the box. I guess I have to keep on trying at this point, no sense in giving up. What's your take on replacing the injectors? Should I do all of them or just the faulty one? Thanks.

i ended up with 2 bad injectors (on king) and replaced the fuel rail on that side...... i found it easier to replace a rail than individual injectors (the first injector was reachable, but a real PITA to change, so i changed the whole rail)

you don't have to take your seat out to get to the ECU, just slide the passenger seat all the way forward, take off the black cover on the ECU (i found this a bit easier) and run the codes from there.

 

never give up!!!!!!! you will win!

[Latinoffroad]

you can read the computer if you slide the passenger seat all the way foreward and lean it to the dash, then recline the drivers seat so you can lay back and see it. A small mirror will help too. From your description of the smoke... white is condensation (can also be due to running rich or not firing properly). The blue is oil. Could be valve seal or rings etc. Once you get her to run steady, do a compression test on each cylinder and that may point to the culprit. There are diagnostic methods to determine if rings, etc at that point. As for what to replace... at a minimum, replace any that are bad. You'll probably have to remove your intake to get at them all but that's fairly easy. The number of injectors you replace may be driven by your availability of funds. I typically don't replace anything that isn't failing unless it's a real PITA to get to.

I'm going to try this next. Thanks for all your help.

[Latinoffroad]

i ended up with 2 bad injectors (on king) and replaced the fuel rail on that side...... i found it easier to replace a rail than individual injectors (the first injector was reachable, but a real PITA to change, so i changed the whole rail)

you don't have to take your seat out to get to the ECU, just slide the passenger seat all the way forward, take off the black cover on the ECU (i found this a bit easier) and run the codes from there.

 

never give up!!!!!!! you will win!

Where did you get the rail from? Does it come with the injectors already in place? How about o-rings? Those need to be replaced also, right? Thanks for all the good info.

Edited June 3, 2008 by Latinoffroad

[Slick]

Where did you get the rail from? Does it come with the injectors already in place? How about o-rings? Those need to be replaced also, right? Thanks for all the good info.

i have 2 spare engines..... so spare parts weren't an issue.. and nope, I just grabbed the "new" rail off King's original motor and put it on....... been perfect ever since.

I do have brand new seals and rings for injectors from my full gasket kit if you need/want them......

if you pull the actual injector out, yes, i suggest changing seals.

the injectors are VERY hard to get to with the intake ON....... i have big but long skinny hands,(I'm a girl) and #2 and #4 injectors were bad...... intake off is the easiest way to go (more time consuming).....

K9 said he has spare injector rails that you can buy from him, I'd go that route and change them.

I didn't know which injectors were bad (as one would work properly, then go bad, then work...) so Mark (msavides) came over with his electrical guru friend and used a tester thingie on it and did some cool stuff with it to my ECU too lol.... he pinpointed my bad injectors....... tho we found the (100% of the time) bad injector with the plug wire method...... the half bad injector was more of a challenge, which is why we ended up changing 1 injector, only to find there was another bad one..... that's when i replaced the whole fuel rail....... 2 outta 3 bad injectors...... i wasn't taking the chance the 3rd one would go too.

the job can be done in a couple of hours from start to finish (intake removal).....

Edited June 3, 2008 by Slick

[k9sar]

I sold one of my rails (possibly both, I'll have to check) but it was only the rails. I have the injectors. All 6 were in perfect working order when I pulled the engine so I have no reason to believe that they wouldn't work. Step 1... pinpoint the problem(s).

[k9sar]

I'm going to try this next. Thanks for all your help.

 

 

No problem. I found this site (actually, the old one) when I had an issue that I needed help solving. many years and a few thousand posts later....

[Latinoffroad]

i have 2 spare engines..... so spare parts weren't an issue.. and nope, I just grabbed the "new" rail off King's original motor and put it on....... been perfect ever since.

I do have brand new seals and rings for injectors from my full gasket kit if you need/want them......

if you pull the actual injector out, yes, i suggest changing seals.

the injectors are VERY hard to get to with the intake ON....... i have big but long skinny hands,(I'm a girl) and #2 and #4 injectors were bad...... intake off is the easiest way to go (more time consuming).....

K9 said he has spare injector rails that you can buy from him, I'd go that route and change them.

I didn't know which injectors were bad (as one would work properly, then go bad, then work...) so Mark (msavides) came over with his electrical guru friend and used a tester thingie on it and did some cool stuff with it to my ECU too lol.... he pinpointed my bad injectors....... tho we found the (100% of the time) bad injector with the plug wire method...... the half bad injector was more of a challenge, which is why we ended up changing 1 injector, only to find there was another bad one..... that's when i replaced the whole fuel rail....... 2 outta 3 bad injectors...... i wasn't taking the chance the 3rd one would go too.

the job can be done in a couple of hours from start to finish (intake removal).....

That is good advice, I will try to remove the manifold. Thanks

[Slick]

That is good advice, I will try to remove the manifold. Thanks

not the manifold, the intake plenum. (the manifold is for your exhaust)

there are 5 bolts that hold the intake on, they should only be torqued to 12-14ft lbs i believe... mine were on so tight, I had to go buy a 6mm allen socket to remove them (that engine was built by a shop) you have to remove a few vaccum lines and connectors, but in the end, taking the time to remove the intake will save you a LOT of headache. ( i should know lol)

that, and if you need to change your spark plugs, do it while the intake is off lol......

i actually left most everything connected on my intake, and just "flipped it on its side" toward the brake master cylinder... how ever i guess during that process i managed to "readjust" my CC cable....... when I put king back together, he surged real bad and nothing else lol...... fixed the issue and he's been runnin like a champ since.

the biggest thing to be careful of is making sure you remove everything that needs to be unplugged/unclipped or popped off, and remember where it all goes. if you go for complete removal of the intake, you can get some brake cleaner and spray it inside the intake to clean it all out...... make sure to stay away from the sensors tho.

don't over tighten ANYTHING

Edited June 4, 2008 by Slick

[k9sar]

I second the thought of only disconnecting what you need in order to lift he intake out of the way. There are some things on the firewall side that are a PITA to put back if removed. I disconnected all my stuff at the front and flipped mine back towards the windshield last time I needed to get into things. Much easier to reconnect where you can actually see.

[Latinoffroad]

not the manifold, the intake plenum. (the manifold is for your exhaust)

there are 5 bolts that hold the intake on, they should only be torqued to 12-14ft lbs i believe... mine were on so tight, I had to go buy a 6mm allen socket to remove them (that engine was built by a shop) you have to remove a few vaccum lines and connectors, but in the end, taking the time to remove the intake will save you a LOT of headache. ( i should know lol)

that, and if you need to change your spark plugs, do it while the intake is off lol......

i actually left most everything connected on my intake, and just "flipped it on its side" toward the brake master cylinder... how ever i guess during that process i managed to "readjust" my CC cable....... when I put king back together, he surged real bad and nothing else lol...... fixed the issue and he's been runnin like a champ since.

the biggest thing to be careful of is making sure you remove everything that needs to be unplugged/unclipped or popped off, and remember where it all goes. if you go for complete removal of the intake, you can get some brake cleaner and spray it inside the intake to clean it all out...... make sure to stay away from the sensors tho.

don't over tighten ANYTHING

Geez Girl... If I ever get stranded in the middle of nowhere I would like for you to drive by. Do you really do all the work yourself? That's fantastic! Thank you so much for your help. I will label things as it comes off "THE INTAKE" This is so cool, everybody is so helpful on this forum.

Thanks again, I'll probably get to work on it tomorrow, I got home late today, had to go visit a client.

Oh one more thing, the plugs are new, but I guess they have gotten soaked with fuel, at least the one under the bad injector. Do you think I should replace it?

Thanks again.

[Latinoffroad]

I second the thought of only disconnecting what you need in order to lift he intake out of the way. There are some things on the firewall side that are a PITA to put back if removed. I disconnected all my stuff at the front and flipped mine back towards the windshield last time I needed to get into things. Much easier to reconnect where you can actually see.

Good point, thanks for the tip, it does make sense to leave the hard to reach stuff untouched. Thanks

[k9sar]

plugs soaked with fuel will resolve themselves. Plugs nowadays are not as big of an issue. I just pulled some that had no electrode left but they would still fire bright.

[Slick]

Geez Girl... If I ever get stranded in the middle of nowhere I would like for you to drive by. Do you really do all the work yourself? That's fantastic! Thank you so much for your help. I will label things as it comes off "THE INTAKE" This is so cool, everybody is so helpful on this forum.

Thanks again, I'll probably get to work on it tomorrow, I got home late today, had to go visit a client.

Oh one more thing, the plugs are new, but I guess they have gotten soaked with fuel, at least the one under the bad injector. Do you think I should replace it?

Thanks again.

yes, i do all my own work. sometimes i have to call Mark to come over and assist me, but 99% of everything I do myself (I live alone also). I have always worked on my own trucks.... it's what I like to do.. yup, tomboy, grease monkey, wrench throwin girl lol. that's me!

as for your spark plugs, clean em up, re-gap them, and if they look good as new..... stuff em back in. there's few ways to ruin a spark plug..... King is still running his new spark plugs from when I changed my injectors (I wasn't wasting $40 worth of plugs tyvm, they were fine)

Everyone is helpful on this forum because everyone has been in your situation at one time or another and needed assistance....... we all had to start somewhere with our Pathy's and I must say, I wouldn't still OWN a Pathy if it wasn't for NPORA.