Motofish
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Posts posted by Motofish
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Awesome thread, I love all this technically detailed knowledge! Thank you guys!
Wanted to respond here so i can follow this thread, but more importantly, to caution against relying too much on the small visual details in the FSM... Im finishing a VG33 swap into my '93 wd21 and have been referencing both the FSM's to compare a lot of the pages between vg30 and vg33, and have noticed a lot of diagram sharing where its not correct (nothing terrible, just things like a diagram showing a V belt pulley where the '33 uses serpentine, or the "fresh air inlet tube" on em-6 of either vg30/33 fsms, not entirely similar in reality, but drawn the same in the book) Im not saying that is the case here, but just saying to not fully trust those drawings 100%... They might have reused a detail that they didnt feel it was important to re-draw.
Edited to add:
Sorry hawairish, i must not have fully read your post, I said nearly the same thing you already had, just not as concisely...Yes, they seem pretty similar, almost identical except for the carrier. Though, I usually proceed cautiously with some diagrams. I noticed that parts diagrams for the X diffs (not the FSM explosions you posted) have an inset picture showing the R50 diff, but with the correct explosions.
Anxious to see the real comparisons. Keep us posted.
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If one was replacing the entire thing anyway, is there anything that would drop right in, as a j/y upgrade? Like a dana (something with more aftermarket support), or something that comes with a factory locker?
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Wow! Bookmarked! That was a great article! Good find! It seems like that site has good info on other topics as well, Thanks for the link!
I like the wiring diagram they threw up there. Very simple!
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I have had too many of those types of electronics (T-max) fail on me. The buttons get old and crack/corrode and its just not worth it for me either. Thats great info on the Blue Sea switch, sounds pretty capable! I think that is the direction id like to go as well (as if i need another project right now...lol).I prefer a physical switch, too. There are a couple other little nuances about the T-Max that have me hung up...one, it doesn't appear that there's any integrated way to mount it (I'm not using Velcro, and it's not going to get tucked away somewhere), and two, if the Link button should fail for any reason (integrated circuit, melted tactical button), I'd have to cut wires to bypass it (which I don't want to do). I'm a big stickler for clean installs.
The Blue Sea modules are IP66 and IP67 rated, meaning they're both dust proof (the first "6") and resist either powerful jets of water (the second "6") or full immersion (the "7") for a minimum period of time. And of course the superior corrosion. If it can withstand of the neck-jarring impacts of a boat going through crests at speed, I have no doubt it'll withstand vibrations from on/off-road. Even then, it would be pretty easy to put those units on rubber feet, but probably not necessary.
If you dont mind me asking, where do you source that kind of plastic from? It seems like there would be tons of uses for something like that.I'd mount them under the hood, probably somewhere near the passenger strut tower or firewall. I tend to use ABS plastic sheets (1/4") for mounting things...rigid, insulating, easy to work with. I think it'd be pretty easy to make a one-piece module that holds a switch, ACR, and pair of breakers.
Overall, sounds like a good plan! Im looking forward to seeing the install (if you decide to post it up). I would tackle this one soon... But i think it would work better with an engine in the truck... Lol. (Partway through an unnecessarily lengthy vg33 swap). But i hope to see yours soon!
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Agreed, since in this case the ACR should be isolating the "full" battery anyway during charging. I think other systems would only add levels of automation and perhaps some type of convenience features. But you have boiled it down to the essential elements, as i see it, as well.I think I see what you're saying...since the smaller battery would only be for starting, it probably doesn't need to be on the alternator-side of the isolator or ACR.
But, the more I think about it, though the less I think it really matters as long as:
1. The batteries charge together
2. The batteries discharge separately
3. Whatever electronics to be used for prolonged periods between starts are connected to the deep(er) cycle battery.
Yes, i think that would cover the necessities, other than adding your own voltage readouts, which i think you said you already have (at least for your current setup). I like the idea of the blue sea systems rotary knob vs tmax's style of buttons from a durability standpoint. Also, a quality electrical component designed for marine environments should be ideal for our purposes due to superior corrosion resistance, i would think. What do you think about vibration? Would that be more of a concern for 4wd than it would be for marine? Maybe that answer would depend more on what type of wheeling one does with their rig... Also is dust a concern? Im still vacuuming dust out of my pathfinder and i havent wheeled in the desert for over a year! Lol. (Used to live in SoCal)I probably will plan for a setup with a deep cycle when the current battery croaks. This power project will eventually support an inverter, air compressor, water pump (for an onboard water supply), and maybe even a fridge. But I also want the radio and cabin lights on that circuit, and redundancy for starting. I think that Blue Sea kit is the "essential" items.
...but if I'm not mistaken, all that's really essential is an isolator, which is just a big relay: + from battery 1 to one side, + from battery 2 to the other side, and a latching signal across two other terminals (12V when the ignition is ON to ground). A selector switch is useful for selecting which battery(ies) to use for a function (like starting), or combing the two for jump starting. The T-Max is useful if you want meter readings, and both the T-Max and ACRs manage the charge (when both batteries are charged, it opens the circuit to prevent over-charging, then senses when the secondary battery has discharged enough and closes the circuit...kind of like a trickle charger).
I think you have a good plan for your system, its protected from overcharging, your starting battery is protected from excessive draining and recharging (isolated), your selector is simple and easy to manipulate, as well as durable from a corrosion resistance standpoint...Is that it in a nutshell?
Are you planning to put them both under the hood?
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I'm not currently running a deep cycle, but I think it's on its last leg anyway. The heat and age has been taking its toll and if it sits for a couple days, it takes a little extra to turn over. I was thinking something small for the starting system, maybe a Group 25 size, and then a basic battery. I don't currently have anything that warrants an Optima, but eventually I will.
So if you will be running everything but the starter off of your secondary (larger) battery, and only using the smaller for starting, that would neccesitate having battery 2 connected to the alternator most of the time and battery 1 only long enough to replenish cranking losses? So in your setup maybe a standard battery would be better?
I guess the reason i was planning on a deep cycle for my secondary battery is because ive heard that frequently draining to low level and recharging a normal lead acid battery will result in an early death for the standard battery. (Im thinking fridge, lights, etc while camping, engine off) I figure with the light duty it would perform in the backup role, a deep cycle should last a very long time... If thats the case, i would think it would be well worth the initial investment for a potential 10-15 year battery (2-3x lead acid lifespan).
Im still doing research, though, and have a lot to learn about batteries, and things. But maybe someone who is more knowledgeable can jump in and drop some knowledge?
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I have been planning nearly the same thing. It seems like this should be about ideal as far as a switch goes: http://www.amazon.com/Blue-Sea-Systems-Selector-Battery/dp/B000K2MCR2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1438047183&sr=8-1&keywords=Marine+battery+switch Im a fan of the k.i.s.s. principle.
Are you currently running a deep cycle battery? That would be the best choice for frequent current drain applications with the engine off, as far as i know... Something like this:
Im planning on this being the second battery and then getting another to be the main battery when my current standard die hard, dies...
Finally, you would need a way to moniter each system... Thats where im hanging up a bit... How to monitor the actual battery level while it is charging. A voltage readout will only be accurate while the battery is not charging, otherwise if its tied to the alternator it would read system voltage correct? Maybe that is where the T-max actually saves time and money?
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strip of LEDs under the bonnet. Do it.
This is BRILLIANT! Im so going to do this thanks for sharing! Is it wired to 12v, or does it contain its own battery?
Babes, guns and Pathfinders. Good weekend!
Three of my favorite things! Though, for me "babes" = my wife
Sometimes it snows in Australia...
I honestly did not know this!
Im no master mechanic, but if youre going to go through the effort to pull the trans (or even move it back a bit), id recommend changing everything back there: throwout bearing, clutch, pilot bushing, rear main seal, maybe even front trans seal... If for no other reason than to ensure you dont have to go back and do the same job for anything that could have easily been done at the most convenient time. The various parts are not that expensive. Piece of mind is priceless... If youre paying to have it done, then its most cost effective to bundle the jobs as most labor is related to accessing the area. Thats just my .02 cents, and what i did in my case. Goodluck, hope it goes smoooooth!Now onto business. When I touch the clutch - I mean even touch it... it starts making this grinding sound. Not high pitch, not consistent (it makes it consistently, but the sound changes and jumps around) Sounds metallic, and makes me think of bearings. When the clutch isnt being touched, or its in gear and moving - all good. But only when I'm on the clutch.
Throw out bearing? Pilot bearing? Are those hard to replace? Any idea?!
Thanks legends.
Taylor
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Maybe its an opportunity for another first... Im thinking semi truck style, roof mounted pull cable horn!The horn doesn't work right now since this has a completely different design, but that's something I can (hopefully) figure out this weekend.
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Woohoo! Glad you got it worked out!
Now then... Whats next on the mod list? Gotta keep this build thread going right?
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Those have to be the biggest visors ive ever seen! Id agree, not my style, but interesting!You should track down some of the JDM safari window visors. Complete the look
-Kyle
CDN, your truck is looking really good! Ive been following the thread, although i dont have an R50, ive found this thread to be quite captivating... not sure why, maybe its the fabrication. Anyway, kudos on your rig!33's
All washed up! It's been a while
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Stay away from the stop leak stuff. It only ever made my systems fail after a short time. If you have a leak, replace the oring. Otherwise id stick with recharging it with plain old freon. I had an issue with my '93 where it was freezing up due to moisture in the system. I took it to pep boys and had them evac and refill the system for like $50. Took care of the problem. If youre going to open it up and replace the orings, id just have the system purged and filled afterwards.
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Sounds like fun! Welcome to NPORA!
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Personally, I chose to give my good friend a newer more powerful heart...It's time to cut my loses and let go of a good friend...
This! Its worth it!nah, I just need to figure what the next phase looks like. Straight rebuild
Plan it out, whatever you decide. Is it a daily driver? How long can you park it for while working on it? And what are your longterm goals for it (street/wheeler/combination)?vg30et? 1uz?
In my case, I chose to do a simple vg33e swap (currently underway) because of increased displacement and availability of engines/parts (its also a relatively easy and inexpensive swap... "relatively"). But your reasons may differ for what you are intending for your pathy, and depending on funds/time/facilities... I guess the question is what is most important to you? There are a lot of V8 swap threads, vg33 swap threads, and a few vg34 build threads.
My advice (for what its worth) is that if you are looking to do any kind of turbo vg, might as well go for a vg33et... I read it somewhere that "anything you can do to a vg30, you can do to a vg33" i forget where i read that, but it's interesting.
Im sure someone who knows a lot more about vg's, turbos, and cam swaps (etc.) as well as engines in general can tell you a lot more. But you have a lot of options!
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Thanks for taking those measurements! Sounds like there is hope for something useful.
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What about a fuel cell, like these?
Ive never gotten down there with the intent of measuring the space for fuel tanks, but im sure you could find one or fabricate something that would fit...
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Very cool project!
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'93 Getting a (sorta) new VG33 powered ticker @ 169458
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Sorry, I don't know the JDM specs or where to get them. Considering the model though, I'd be surprised to find a significant difference, but it is definitely worth matching some numbers up. I'll do a little digging tomorrow to see what I can find.
B
Thank you very much for any info you can find! I would be surprised if they were, but I had heard that some vehicles have different output, not necessarily Nissan only, per se... Id expect it to be more likely in the sports car lines. In any case, once I get the cams out I can set them side by side and take some pictures if anyone is interested.
On the topic of Pictures, at the moment, I have a VG30 and a VG33 side by side out of the vehicle right now. Is there anything that would be helpful to the Forum to take pictures of, whether its a side by side comparison of the engines or components (I'm unfortunately not going to be able to tear into the VG33 too much deeper than timing and valve covers, but the 30 is eligible for in-depth looks). I know its not a very unusual swap, or job, but if I can help out the forum here Id be happy to take pictures of anything on the Pathy or the engines.
Oh yeah, and I also wanted to record on here that you CAN take out the front diff without removing the torsion bars, if anyone is wondering. I did have to lift up the engine, as has been stated on here before. I couldn't find a definitive answer about the torsion bars, and I didn't want to mess with re-indexing since I have it in a place where I wanted it... Anyways, it is possible.
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Pulled the VG30 out of my pathfinder today...
Getting ready to put in an (almost) shiny, (not quite) new VG33 :-)
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Pull the valve covers and look at them. Better yet pull the cams, inspect them yourself and if you are still concerned then have them professionally measured.
This is good advice, I will take a look at them. Its free, the valve covers will be coming off anyways... Thanks
They provided a new replacement and after I installed it there was no noticeable change in the way the engine ran. That was at 234,000 miles, so give that you are 80,000 miles below I would not worry about it and would install the VG30 cams myself.
This confirms my suspicions that VG30 cams are made of "unobtanium" lol. That's awesome that there was no wear! It gives me hope!
They easily could have told me that both had to be replaced simply to sell two instead of one cam, but they did not, this says a lot about Delta camshaft...
Sounds like a reputable company indeed!
Red has great personal experience and I'm just going on principle; I'm pretty sure the more aggressive cams function more on a timing/duration level than absolute throw, at least in this relatively mild scenario.
I definitely defer to the wisdom of the NPORA members!
I'd check the specs of both stock cams to see which stand taller. MY1PATH has good info here from when he was experimenting with cam grinds, so that would be a must read...
I remember browsing through that thread, ill have to look it up. This certainly would be the right time for re-reading it!
From what I know, the VG33 has a stronger crank/snout and a timing belt interval of 105k so you shouldn't normally have timing issues. If you do, just count yourself screwed and don't hope for luck.
I'd put the VG30 cams in from the get go. You aren't going to make it a drag champ, you are just going to actually use some of the motor potential. You won't be loping at intersections (but that would be hilarious!)
The crank on the 33 is definitely larger, which makes me happier now more than ever!
I'm definitely not a speed freak, but if I can get an increase towing potential with the '33, and then increase that with the '30 cams, if they won't reduce reliability or fuel economy much, it sounds like a good deal to me.If you don't want to do that right away, no worries, they can be installed fairly easily with the motor in place. BUT, if it is already out, stripped and open (timing belt work), it would be really easy.
My ideal motor replacement is a VG33 block with vg30 cams, all the VG30 stuff on it, into Thorley headers on out (intake to match of course). I believe the VG30 cams will give you a little better low end as well...
Good luck no matter what you decide!
B
Man, I gotta go back and do some more research... This would be the best time to switch them, no doubt about it. Does anyone know if the JDM cams are different than the US market '33 cams? I was mainly attracted to the low mileage of the JDM engine, but I'm wondering if the performance would be different on the Japanese Domestic spec engine?
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Things happen for a reason. What reason? No one knows...
So true! The Good Lord only knows why things happen, but I'm sure in the future it will all be clear looking back.
Don't forget to install the VG30 cams...
I've been on the fence about this one. I've read a lot of threads on here about the cam swap, and (assuming mine aren't damaged) I understand it gives a bit more "oomph" to the engine. What I'm concerned with is, it seems as though some VG33 owners get lucky with the interference aspect of the engine, at times, whereas it seems the VG30 crowd is pretty well screwed whenever timing issues arise (well, usually). So would putting in the more aggressive cams increase the likelihood of interference in the event that something fails and the engine doesn't keep time correctly?
There is also the issue of my 165k mile vg30 cams (with the same PO history as the broken crank...) vs. the 55-65k (according to the seller/dealer/peddler) JDM cams currently in the VG33... For my part, I'm not as interested (for now) in maximizing output (but in the not so near future, headers and such are a possibility)... I'm leaning more toward reliability right now. Although I would be keeping either set of cams though... ya know, to keep my options open :-D
But I would love to hear from you guys that have more experience in these matters... I'm still open to going either way with it.
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Thanks for the sympathies! It may sound kind of odd at this point, but I'm actually excited about the swap... while I'm sad that my pathfinder died, its not really dead... so to speak. Now it just gives me a chance to make it more customized to me, and a fun job as well.
I went ahead and picked up that VG33, and I just placed an order with Rob for a bunch of new seals, timing components, etc. to get it tip top before I put it in. There is tons of swap info here on the forums, I had been cataloging threads anyways, so now its just a matter of having to do it, as opposed to just wanting to do it.
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So, I was accelerating onto the freeway the other day, doing about 60 mph, and I simultaneously feel a severe loss of power, see a bunch of bad lights come on, and hear the unmistakable sounds of valves and pistons colliding with great force... Press the clutch to the floor, glide to a gentle stop by the side of the road, and pop the hood... Shouldn't be the belt, it was just done about 3k miles ago... However, it sure seemed like the timing got screwed up. Went straight for the T-belt cover at the top passenger side to check belt movement and tension... tension good, but no cam movement when my wife cranks the starter... weird. Weirder still, the crank pulley isn't spinning either... yet I can hear things moving internally inside the block. Also, engine seems to spin very easily, like there is NO compression anywhere.
Well, after a 5 hour ordeal waiting for AAA (seeing as my only tow vehicle is F-O-R-D with me) and some jockeying and maneuvering to get the ol' boy up the driveway (a Chrysler T&C WILL pull a wd21 up a steep driveway, btw) I was able to get some troubleshooting done. Found the crank bolt was pretty loose, so I tightened it a bit and now the crank pulley spun, and the cam sprockets spun. Belt is a-ok.
Quick compression test on #1 = 0 psi, so a feverish search for a low mile VG33 ensued... (found a nice looking JDM with 55-65k for around $700, here's to making "VG33 powered WD21 lemonade" :-D !)
Back to the task at hand. I pulled the front apart to get to the timing components, and without further "ado" here is what I found:
Snapped right off... I heard tales of this happening, but now I know its possible! I just never thought it would be me...lol. Oh well, its a good reason to do that VG33 swap I've been fantasizing about...
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Horrendous engine knocking for no reason
in The Garage
Posted
Wow, sorry to hear and see that... I'd definitely try the "fishing through the sparkplug hole" idea first. Maybe a simple magnet with a flexible shaft would find them? They look pretty small. At this point since you had it towed pretty quickly afterward maybe there isnt much damage to the cylinders? Since you know which ones are missing you should know which cylinders to search in right? Say a prayer and hope for the best!