porsche4786
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Posts posted by porsche4786
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Well, you've found the source of your noise!
So now you need to figure out what the problem is. If it's assembled correctly, then you want to check:
-lifter height?
-worn cam lobes?
-worn rocker shafts?
-worn rocker inner diameter (on the shaft)?
-worn rocker pads (where you contact the lifter and valve)?
-valve height?
Usually I'd say you could find the problem just by eye... comparing good to bad. The FSM has detailed measurement instructions for pretty much everything though.... but things are so loose in your video that you shouldn't need to actually measure...
In terms of knowing it is assembled correctly... let me think. You need to have the lifter guide plates fully seated down on the locating pins. You need to have the rocker shafts on the right side (can you even mess this up?) The cutouts in the shafts should be over the cylinder head bolts. You need to correctly torque the rocker shaft bolts, but even just hand tight you likely wouldn't get that much movement.
I'm hoping it's something to do with the rocker arms or shafts, because that's easy. You have to disassemble the front of the engine to get cams out and measure them right? Or can you actually fit a micrometer in there? I'll see if I can get around to removing the rocker arms and shafts and mic them tonight. I don't remember seeing a measurement for the rocker arm pads, but I'll give them a good look over. I'll re soak the lifters as well.
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No. Not supposed to be like that.
I'm wondering if it was like that before I changed them...I put every bolt back in the exact hole, and rocker arms in the same spot.
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Is this movement supposed to be there in the rocker arms? A couple of them move back and fourth and side to side a little. Pretty freely.
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If it is reliability you are insisting on then with that train of thought, you should get a new engine. But wait why stop there, everything is wore out at 100k miles. So you should buy a new vehicle for that piece of mind. LOL
So true. You could always add one more thing "while your in there".
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I finally got around to do the oil pressure again....At warm idle it's about 14psi (not sure how accurate the gauge is I have). And at about 3200 RPM it's at 50+psi. But it does still go up to over 60psi at start, then down to about 28-30ish after 5-10 seconds.
edit: will probably try a different filter and oil also.
Okay, replaced oil again with new filter (different brand, different store). I was recommended by a mechanic to use straight 30 weight oil. So I thought, what they heck, I'll give anything a shot once. Oil pressure is up to 65 at start, and holds it there for much longer than before, and drops off to about 24-25 at about 750 rpm. Sounds pretty high to me at that rpm. I think the next step is to pull it all back apart and try again.
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I finally got around to do the oil pressure again....At warm idle it's about 14psi (not sure how accurate the gauge is I have). And at about 3200 RPM it's at 50+psi. But it does still go up to over 60psi at start, then down to about 28-30ish after 5-10 seconds.
edit: will probably try a different filter and oil also.
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I used a water pump from advance auto. That's been 2 years and 30k miles ago. No problems so far.
I will never again used a reman water pump from a supply house, I went thru soo many napa waterpumps on my rx7 before having one rebuilt. They said whoever rebuilt the waterpump had used cheap seals. I had one last a minute, one last a couple hours, and one last a month. Then I finally had it rebuild properly.
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I'd do the main front seal too. As far as cam seals, when I did my timing belt and water pump, I didn't use the cam seals I had bought because I lacked a way to get the bolt off that holds the cam gear on without turning the whole cam. There is a special tool you can use to help, but I didn't have one. The bolts are fairly tight. I didn't want to risk bending valves when all looked fine. I did try to get the bolts loose with what I had, but they didn't budge. Also, when putting everything back together, make sure when you put the harmonic balancer on check to make sure you don't bend/break off the lowest screw hole (for the timing belt cover) that is part of the oil pump casting. Somehow my balancer went on too far or something and bent it. Still not sure how that happened....
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It seems a little low to me. At idle my Pathfinder with 250K ran 60+ PSI cold and so does my 300ZX. What is it at when it's warm? Anything below 7PSI you've got issues.
I'll try and get thru the horrible sounds and let it warm up tonight
. Also will see what it does when reved up. Yours ran 60 PSI till it got warmed up? Do you know what it runs when warmed up at idle?Sounds to me like your oil filter is plugged. Try changing the filter and check it again.
James
Could be, I'm also thinking the pickup tube screen. Which looks like fun to get at.
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Okay...I haven't had much time lately. I've been running around everywhere trying to find metric adapters for the oil pressure gauge I have. Nobody seems to have anything, I finally got the right one! I put the gauge on and when I start it up (cold engine) the psi jumps up to just over 60psi for about 5-10ish seconds, then drops down to about 30. I have not removed the valve covers yet. I wanted to check oil pressure first. Does 30 PSI seem low at cold idle?
My rx-7's oil metering pump decided to go out a couple days ago so I've been franticly trying to locate one locally and find out if there were any other problems with that. I'm scared to drive any working vehicle now because it might break! New the oil metering pump is over $1500! Found a used one for $125 and it's working fine now. (thank god!)
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I've heard a couple different things people have done to pass. First one was to put some moth balls in the gas tank and go thru DEQ. The other was to take a wet towel, and stuff it around the outside (if I remember correctly) of your air filter, and go thru (do this right before you go thru). But I haven't had any experience with these methods. Luckily, the only car I've had to take thru is my rx-7, and it's passed without problems, except for being too loud once. It's actually registered to my parents (don't want to pay the $200+ to switch it over to my name), and now their residence is away from DEQ, so I just mail in a check and they mail me my tags.
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It's only like 10 minutes or less to pull the passenger side valve cover
Yeah...I know. I'm just lazy and tired of the bs with this thing. I'll probably do it tonight after work.
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While doing the run in is a good idea, and maybe your lifters are pooched, I'm not convinced it's that for sure... and you should still be able to find the source of the noise and decide if you need to replace them... I mean, are the lifters worn (mic them), are they loose in the galleys? Galleys worn? Cams? you can measure all this stuff, or even feel to see if anything is loose. Might require disassembly of course. Lifter height?
I dunno, I'd just hate for you to buy another set of lifters and have the same problem.
Are the rocker arms supposed to ever be "free" and move freely at a certain spot during a revolution? Or is there always supposed to be a certain amount of pressure against them? Thru the oil filler hole, I can move one of the rocker arms with my finger.
This pathfinder has been a real test for me. Since it has need SO much work. I'm really considering buying a frontier (since xterra's are soo hard to find with a manual transmission around here). Getting the nissan to run proper, and sell it before something else breaks. I'm probably into it as much as I paid for it now. Only put about 11k miles on it. 158k on it now.
edit: I say that about the xterra...then I see this... lol http://portland.craigslist.org/clc/cto/2267729258.html
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Idle is the worst thing for new lifters; 6-9PSI
On first start up They need to esablilsh thier wear pattern with GOOD oil supply. This is both for the camlobes and the lifter internals.
ZDDP also helps because it stops any chances of esessive wear when establing that wear pattern properly.
When I did my cams my new lifters rattled like a mason jar full of bolts bringing the RPM up. Then they ticked for less than 45 seconds during the run-in.
After that I NEVER heard them again.
You think I need to replace them again, then do wear in? Wish I would have seen that before I changed them. Pretty expensive things to buy.
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So, did you do what MY1PATH said or not? You entirely ignored what he said, and it's the most critical post in the thread so far. The run-in procedure has to be followed.
If not you might as well replace them again because they'll never be right.
No, I did not. Since it was driven for maybe 15 miles or more after installing the lifters and posting here (no mention of run-in in the FSM or Haynes manual). I figured it is way beyond too late to do that. Plus, it just sounds soo horrid at a plain idle. I didn't want to run it more than absolutely necessary. It sounds like it's running with no oil in it whatsoever.
edit: after I was finished, started it, it ran at about 1500 rpm and I reved it up to 2000 for a couple minutes. till "warm" then idled down to 750rpm. I went inside for a minute. Came back out and it was at about 2000 rpm (something wrong with throttle cable). So I messed with that for a while trying to get it to idle normally, and get the timing on right. After that, I drove it.
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Did you replace the lifters with brand new ones or used? Also did you inspect your rockers for any sort of damage? Your looking for heavy pitting and excessive wear spots. A worn cam and rockers make the same noise. I would pull off the covers again and check for any sort of play on the rockers. Make sure you rotate the engine as your checking them with the valves in the closed postion. If all checks out good, then run a bottle of seafoam for about 10-40 miles of driving and change the oil again. Once you change the oil, hook up an oil pressure gauge and check the readings. Your oil pressure will always be higher when the engine is cold, so go by the numbers with your engine fully warm. The reason you want to run the seafoam before you check the oil pressure is because you dont want any crude in the passages giving you a false reading.
They are brand new. I'm not a fan of using used internal engine parts. The rockers themselves looked to be fine, and the rocker arm shaft looked fine (didn't use a micrometer, should have). Almost looked like one side was slightly newer than the other. The cam did have a slight worn spot on the drivers side, which is the lifter on that side that was making the most noise before replacement. But now I'm having a hard time figuring which of the lifters (or whatever it is) is making the most noise. Maybe I need to replace the cams too...Always fun doing things twice
...Just had the timing belt off about 2 months ago...Too bad I didn't just do it all at once! The other thing I'm still not sure of is if it's getting enough oil to the rocker arms and lifters. Obviously that makes a huge difference. (I'm thinking as I'm typing here) It did sound very quiet when I first finished and started it up. Which means when it DID have oil, it was fine. So now I'm thinking it's not getting enough oil.... -
I changed the oil to valvoline max life 5w-30, still ticks like crazy. Even when cold. I was looking thru the oil filler hole and everything looks very clean, I'm not sure how much oil should be coating everything after it has sat for 10 mins, maybe I'll try and run it and look in there, I can see one lifter, thru the hole, and I suspect it's the one making most of the noise on that side. I could try and get some oil in there directly on it and see if it helps at all.
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You could pull the passenger valve cover and see if there is any play in any of the rocker arms. Push down on the lifter side, they should be very hard. Did you try pushing down on the lifters before you installed. If they are soft it should be fairly obvious, the top will just easily collapse...
As I installed the rocker arms and rockers, I pushed on them after I tightened it down, and didn't notice any lifters collapse.
10w-40 is way too thick on fresh lifters. It ran fine at first cause the lifters had oil in them from soaking. After that, very little oil is getting to the top end. 10w is cold weight, 40 is the weight when warm. Clearances are too narrow for good oil flow.
That's what I was thinking, thinner oil when it's cold so it lubes ok, after that it's too thick. I figured I have some clogged/partially clogged oil passages (but I did clean out the oil passages on the rocker arm rods, and lifter plate thing, some of those were plugged). I bought some Valvoline max life 5w-30 last night. The only ZDDP additive I have been able to find locally (and have used in the past) is the blue bottle of STP. I wonder if I should run a little seafoam or other cleaner thru the oil system that might open up some oil passages. I have never used seafoam in the past. Just after I bought the rig about a year ago, I had oil can henry's replace the oil (I just didn't have time to do it, first time taking a car anywhere to have oil changed) and they also ran a cleaner thru the oil system, and after they did that is when I started noticing lifter tick. So I'm not sure if the guy I bought it from had put something in the oil to make it sound ok before he sold it to me, or if the cleaner had some effect on the lifters, or if the cleaner just knocked a bunch of junk loose and caused trouble.
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So I replaced my lifters yesterday, and within the 30-45 minutes I ran it afterword, it sounded fine. Then I changed the oil with fresh castrol gtx high mileage 10w-40, and new filter. I drove it after that for about 20 minutes, and now it makes a bunch of noise again. I'm guessing that my oil passages are clogged. I did make sure all the passages I could see were clear (sprayed engine degreaser thru them), but they could be clogged within the head or oil pump. Other ideas? I did soak the lifters in 5w-20 for about 24 hours (upright) before installation. And lubbed up everything well as installing. (Probably why it sounded fine for the first 30-45 minutes). This engine did have a large amount of sludge in the valve covers (used putty knife to remove it) when I first replaced the valve cover gaskets the day after I bought it, about a year ago now. It was obviously abused and the guy flat out lied to me about it. "Oil changed every 3000 miles", yeah, bull...
edit: When the engine startes cold, there is no ticking. Once it warms, it ticks.
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I finished another project today.....I installed my PIAA 1500 Back-Up lights. I mounted them on my Yakima Load Warrior Basket.
How did you run the wiring to the engine bay from the roof?
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FYI...your steering wheel is on the wrong side, might want to fix that while your in there!
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I also think he's trying to upsell you. I went to an Americas Tire Co and bought 15'' black steel wheels for my pathy, and 31x10.50 Hankook Dynapro ATM tires. But I did have to crank up the front torsion bars and remove the front mudflaps for them to clear, haven't rubbed at all since. But I will say without the mudflaps in the front the truck gets messy fast!
Forgot to add...I also had to cut a little off the front spoiler/lip thing that hangs from the front bumper. I guess it depends on which 31'' tires you get as to what modifications you might have to make.
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Sweet!! Nothing wrong with that!! Ya got lucky so far Bud...
B
This morning I was letting it idle while putting stuff back together inside, and when I was putting the white/clear cover on the plug that goes into the computer, I noticed the engine would backfire when I pushed on the wires, and then I pushed more on that same spot with little pressure and the engine died, I went to start it again, nothing, I pushed on the wires, tried to start again, and it started right up, then the rpm gauge died, then it would come back on when I wiggled the wires around. I tightened the plug a little more and it seemed to have stopped, I couldn't get it to do any of that stuff again. And no more codes. So I'm hoping everything is fine now. I might get a photo of the damage I did and post it later. See what you guys think. Thanks for all the help everybody! I really appreciate it!!!
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Thats great news, talk about dodging a bullet! Lucky for you the belt jumped instead of breaking.
Sounds like you broke a boss off the oil pump. I would think as long as there is no oil leak and the timing cover isn't rubbing on anything it should be alright.
According to the haynes manual code 21 is something about the primary ignition signal that the dealer needs to fix. I would just try to reset the computer and go from there.
James
Yeah, I was very surprised I didn't hear bad noises. They really make that timing cover close to the balancer....I knew I was putting the wrong screw in that hole, but I didn't expect anything like that. I didn't see any leaks after it warmed up and drove it around the block. I screwed the correct screw in and I think the timing cover will help support it temporarily for the next 50k miles.
I didn't bring her home last night, so we'll see what happens with a longer drive. As I was driving home last night I realized that I did my compression check with the coil unplugged.....must be the cause for the code. I was doing some reading in the FSM also, and I found that the check light is supposed to come on when key is on, for bulb check. So my bulb is probably out....or somebody unplugged/broke it.
replaced lifters...
in 90-95 WD21 Pathfinders
Posted
Or maybe (when I take it apart) it will be one of those things that is just WAYY too obvious to see/take the time to look at.
I did see a fairly worn looking spot on the drivers side cam, you could feel a slight wear on the cam (which, if you can feel it, it's probably too much). But that's by far the worst spot I've seen. And that isn't the only place noise is coming from. The lifters themselves (old ones) look ok, didn't see obvious highly worn spots.