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Rear Wheel Seals seeping


gamellott
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It's been a while since I've been here, but work continues on the antique...

 

I've replaced the parking brake cables (Got the directly from Japan) and I'm waiting on parts to fix the calipers (One of the boots on the piston was torn and not re-usable). I noticed that one of the rear wheel seals is seeping (After 300Kmiles, you would be too). I know if I had drum brakes, I would have a bearing that is pressed onto the axle just like the one on the D21 (There is a Youtube video on it).  From what I can see, the disk brake bearing is radically different and it appears as though the bearing does not have a press on retaining collar. Do these bearings press on at all? Inquiring minds need to know...

 

It's on jack stands right now.... Maybe I'll just try to find out for myself.... But if someone wants to chime in with their experience, that would be awesome!!

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@hawairish There is a distinct difference in the catalog for the bearings and seals for my 92' between disk and drum. The Bearing, if the pictures are correct, have 2 tapered bearings smashed into a common race, which makes me think there has to be some kind of adjustment in order to get the proper load that you're not going to have on a pressed collar and shim like the ones in a single bearing/race setup.

 

I think I've nuked it out in my head enough, I'll just take it all apart and see what I see. I haven't seen enough good documentation on this non-garden-variety animal....

 

Edit/update... I do have this thing called a Chilton service manual and the answer was in it. Should have been my first action rather than try to search for a Youtube video ? The manual also breaks it down between Disk and Drum. TaaaaDaaaa ?

Edited by gamellott
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The R50 drum/WD21 disk rears are built the same, but the drum WD21 rear is a different beast with a single row on either side and the axles butted up against a thrust block in the diff, with shims on either side to set the end-float.

 

I did the rear bearings in mine recently (WD21, disk) and there isn't really an adjustment for them. Just a very high torque spec for the nut that holds it all together, which I'm not sure how you're supposed to get, given that you'd need the world's deepest socket or a really weird crow's foot to get a torque wrench on it. I just gave 'er wha by hand with the spline wrench I welded up to remove them. I've seen people use a hammer and punch instead, but I didn't want to risk damaging the stupid spline nuts. And, yeah, you'll need a press and some creativity in setting it up for the various operations you'll have to do to get everything separated. The service manual has a pretty good breakdown, though of course it assumes you have the super-special Kent-Moore kit for everything.

Too bad it has to come apart for a seal, that's a lot of screwing around for one piece of rubber. But if there's oil coming past the outer seal, that suggests the inner has been whupped for a long time. If you're going to the effort of replacing the seal, I'd plan on doing both seals, the O ring, and the bearing as well. Mine weren't actually bad (much to my annoyance--I was hoping they were the source of an annoying noise) but they did show some discoloration on the rollers and races, and there wasn't a whole lot of grease in there anymore. Looked like the inner seals failed and diff oil washed the grease out. I also had to put a fair whack of stress on the old bearings to get the axle to budge. This didn't leave any obvious damage, but I was happy I had new bearings that hadn't been abused like that to put it back together with. (And then there was the race I dropped, where the plastic cage broke and the rollers scattered from hell to breakfast.)

 

I shot some video of the job when I did mine, then never did anything with it. Let me know if you get stuck on something and I'll try and work out what I did there.

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Though…shouldn’t they only then differ by the bearing and bearing cup, which would be shallower, but otherwise be the same process. Pretty sure the grease seal is the same for practically everything, down to the H190 (which I think uses the same single bearing…I’ll have to crossref that).

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I've done it once, a long time ago on someone else's drum brake 95. It was a pain in the ass taking it all apart for a couple of seals. If you don't have a press do yourself a favor and take the assembly to a shop once you have it apart, get them to press it apart/back together after.

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@Slartibartfast Ya, that torque spec is crazy. I have been doing some research on how one would do this and I believe an OTC 7463 Gland Nut Wrench might just do the trick if the nut is not recessed. I have also seen a few shock spanners that might work as well... Worst case, Whack it with a hammer and punch. They couldn't simply make an octagonal nut with recesses in it. Ya need a special tool.... If there is a right one out there, what is it? 

 

After all, 30 years and 300Kmiles, and now it's leaking (Or I'm noticing it). There is a little bit of oil in the parking brake drum... When I first got this thing 8 years ago, it was leaking from almost every single seal, but it ran good. I've slowly been knocking out replacing the seals on everything, from the easiest to the hardest.... Next... the transmission and rear main, because they're leaking bad!!! The oil spots on the clean concrete are both dirty and clean oil ?

Edited by gamellott
I misread my manual
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Alright, so yeah, now this is coming back to me.  That single taper H233B setup was actually identical to my 98 Frontier's H190 setup.  Same bearing cage, bearing, shims, seal, etc.  But, I guess I also thought there was a range of W/D21 drums that had the newer bearing cage like the R50, but seemingly that was limited to the wider axles (R50, D22, WD22).

 

And yeah, that recessed axle nut in the bearing cage is absurd.  I once bought a spanner that I thought would work, but wasn't even close.  I've made a couple tools using my plasma table to do that work, but I sold one and Towndawg has the other for his disc brake swap.  I made them to accept 1/2" ratchets/breakers in order to hit those torque specs, but in more recent efforts, have just resorted to hammer and punch.

 

This was one of them.  Wasn't a fan of the design, but worked:

7603-E7-AD-7720-4-CC8-8752-4464-FB3-A138

 

I liked this one better because it gave me some wings to smack with a hammer:

3-C090-C80-14-E3-4198-8-F2-E-B50153-F29-

 

When I first started getting into the axle shaft tear downs, I just went out and bought a floor press (was cheaper than outsourcing the work) and it's been a wonderful shop addition ever since (most recently used for a t-case upgrade).  I just needed to make some tools to tear things down.  This was one of my later setups using some scrap; just bolt onto the bearing cup and suspend in the floor press:

 

C3686098-4-D1-D-4-C3-D-B672-A00-AEB94909

 

Towndawg stepped it up and made one with a turn screw...no press required for disassembly.

 

2-BEEAD73-11-F2-4-CDF-99-ED-10-C3840-F14

 

Looking at the FSM for my Frontier, though (and largely assuming that process hadn't changed for the single-taper design since '92), it shows use of a tool similar to Towndawg's for pulling the bearing w/o a press, but then shows just using a drift to reinstall the bearings (both outer and inner races).  I've never done this job on my Frontier to confirm, and now that it has an H233B with discs under it, I won't have to.

 

@gamellott Since the H190 bearing setup appears to be identical to your H233B setup (according to NissanPartsDeal.com, every part from the axle lock nut to the seal on a '92 is a VIN match to my '98), let me know if I can get you some pics from my H190 to confirm anything for you. 

 

 

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@hawairishThanks for the info. This gets me better prepared to do this job. Because this is going to be such a PITA, I might delay it for a while until I can find or fabricate a suitable tool. I was thinking some kind of hook spanner would work, but if it's recessed, that's not an option. Maybe some kind of supported pin wrench with a crow's foot on it? I did this job once on my 95' D21 with the single race, and I have clearly forgot how difficult it was. I had to take the axles to a shop to get the bearings and seals swapped out at the time because I didn't have a press.

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Just gonna say, I spent way too much time trying to overthink the parts catalog at Rock Auto regarding the inner/outer Disk/Drum differences and the different verbiage between manufacturers". I think the best way to figure it out and not be confused is to stick to one manufacturer. That being said, I believe the online catalog at Rock Auto is superior to others. And no, I am not getting paid to say this ?

 

The other problem I found on other parts stores, in this instance, is that they lacked descriptions on what exactly they fit. This reminds me of the parts documentation for Subaru's in the 90's when I was working for the "Parts" store. Specifically brakes... because that's all that we ever sold for Subaru's back then ?

 

Anyway, All of the parts are on order and I'll get to it when I make time and when it's warmer and dryer here.

 

@hawairish@SlartibartfastI have watched a few videos of people doing this exact job. Every single one of them has them taking the nut off and on with a steel drift. Using that practice, I have no idea how anyone would ever achieve the desired torque. If it's under-torqued, and tight, I don't know that it would actually be that much of a problem especially with the locking tab preventing it from backing off. But then, the torque is probably serving some function.... What, I'm not sure in this case. It's not like it's a head bolt.

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The Rockauto system is usually pretty good. Nissanpartsdeal is my usual go-to for identifying parts and year ranges and whatnot. I ordered most of what I used from RA, but they didn't have the lock washers, so I bought those through Partsouq.

 

I like those CNC'd sockets. Mine is not nearly that nice. I cut some strap steel to fit the splines, then welded them to a pipe to keep them in formation. I tried welding a bolt to it to use with the torque wrench, but, yeah, that didn't hold up so well. A sacrificial 1/2" drive socket would've been better, but by that point I think I had realized that my torque wrench didn't even go that high, so I welded on some rebar handles called that good enough.

 

The drawings in the service manual call out PNs for some of the tools they suggest (though others just say "suitable tool"). I looked some of them up when I did mine and found what I think was the right kit, but the listing didn't have any pictures and it was priced stupid high.

 

And yeah, I'm not sure what function the torque spec is serving here. It's not like you're gonna set preload given how tight those inner races are pressed onto the shaft. Maybe it's supposed to push the races home if you didn't get them fully seated with the press? It might just be a standard torque spec for that thread size and pitch for all I know.

 

I bought a cheap press for mine (the cheapest Northern Tool had) and had to stack some wood under its legs to get enough clearance to get the whole axle in there. Worked great after that, though. I do like Towndawg's solution.

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8 hours ago, gamellott said:

Just gonna say, I spent way too much time trying to overthink the parts catalog at Rock Auto regarding the inner/outer Disk/Drum differences and the different verbiage between manufacturers". I think the best way to figure it out and not be confused is to stick to one manufacturer. That being said, I believe the online catalog at Rock Auto is superior to others. And no, I am not getting paid to say this ?

 

Ha, I'm the same way.  In fact, I just put in an order for disc brake parts today and was bouncing back and forth one some options.  Since both my R50 and D22 now have WD21 rear discs, I also always have to compare what's available for two trucks...needless to say, there aren't as many ceramic pad options for a 95 WD21 as there are for an 04 R50.

 

4 hours ago, Slartibartfast said:

The Rockauto system is usually pretty good. Nissanpartsdeal is my usual go-to for identifying parts and year ranges and whatnot. I ordered most of what I used from RA, but they didn't have the lock washers, so I bought those through Partsouq.

 

I like those CNC'd sockets. Mine is not nearly that nice. I cut some strap steel to fit the splines, then welded them to a pipe to keep them in formation. I tried welding a bolt to it to use with the torque wrench, but, yeah, that didn't hold up so well. A sacrificial 1/2" drive socket would've been better, but by that point I think I had realized that my torque wrench didn't even go that high, so I welded on some rebar handles called that good enough.

 

RA and NPD are my go-tos as well for parts lookups, except I've noticed the RA listings are getting a bit sloppy.  Not their fault, though, because that data comes from the manufacturers.  It's just that when you own an 04 R50, it's flooded with parts for an 04 Pathfinder Armada as well as a bunch of D40 Frontier, N40 Xterra, and R51 Pathfinders parts for some dumb reason (bunch of Dana and M226 axle parts).  It's even trickled to the local stores when they as for my truck's info...Me: "2004 Pathfinder", them: "V6 or V8?", me: "There wasn't a V8 Pathfinder."  Stupid Armada BS.

 

I'm coming around to using more sacrificial sockets for stuff like this.  It's hard to cut small squares with the plasma table.  The black impact sockets and adapters from Harbor Freight has been pretty useful for that sort of stuff.

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Yeah, RA did sell me a set of VG33 intake gaskets for my VG30 once. That was a fun job to redo.

 

I had a look and found the footage from when I did mine. I think I was letting it sit until I knew if my rear wheels were going to fall off afterwards. They haven't, so I'll brush that up and get it posted. It's less a "how to" and more a "watch this guy struggle" but there might still be something useful in there.

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On 4/4/2022 at 2:37 AM, hawairish said:

 

Ha, I'm the same way.  In fact, I just put in an order for disc brake parts today and was bouncing back and forth one some options.  Since both my R50 and D22 now have WD21 rear discs, I also always have to compare what's available for two trucks...needless to say, there aren't as many ceramic pad options for a 95 WD21 as there are for an 04 R50.

 

 

RA and NPD are my go-tos as well for parts lookups, except I've noticed the RA listings are getting a bit sloppy.  Not their fault, though, because that data comes from the manufacturers.  It's just that when you own an 04 R50, it's flooded with parts for an 04 Pathfinder Armada as well as a bunch of D40 Frontier, N40 Xterra, and R51 Pathfinders parts for some dumb reason (bunch of Dana and M226 axle parts).  It's even trickled to the local stores when they as for my truck's info...Me: "2004 Pathfinder", them: "V6 or V8?", me: "There wasn't a V8 Pathfinder."  Stupid Armada BS.

 

I'm coming around to using more sacrificial sockets for stuff like this.  It's hard to cut small squares with the plasma table.  The black impact sockets and adapters from Harbor Freight has been pretty useful for that sort of stuff.

 

I've got EBC greenstuff pads on all 4 corners of my 95. If you're looking for a decent pad.

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