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2" sfd possibilities?'s


bertrenolds
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I have 2" sfcreations spacers upfront on my r50 and like everyone else from what I am reading the passenger side halfshaft, cv axel for those that don't know the correct name, binds when you turn too hard to the right into say a parking spot. It's only the passenger side, for some reason the drivers side wont do it. If I could get a 2" sfd made would I also have to find a way to extend my steering linkage like you do when you do a 4" sfd? The brake lines are obviously fine. I am tired of running 2 camber bolts per side and I hate when my halfshaft binds but I really don't want to invest more money into new springs again in the rear and shocks ect to do a 4" sfd. So would I need to extend my steering linkage if I did a 2" sfd or what?

Edited by bertrenolds
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I just answered some of this in your other reply, but yes, a 2" SFD would require a modified or aftermarket steering link.  Tool and hardware space will be tight in the motor mount spacers, though.  The subframe spacers are less of an issue; you can using longer bolts to connect things.  It's all doable, but a 2" SFD would cost almost as much as a 4" because you still need the steering link, which is the most expensive part.

 

If 2" of spacers are so problematic, and you don't want to change parts, I'd just pull off 1" of spacers for the time being, or even shave a half-inch off one.

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29 minutes ago, hawairish said:

I just answered some of this in your other reply, but yes, a 2" SFD would require a modified or aftermarket steering link.  Tool and hardware space will be tight in the motor mount spacers, though.  The subframe spacers are less of an issue; you can using longer bolts to connect things.  It's all doable, but a 2" SFD would cost almost as much as a 4" because you still need the steering link, which is the most expensive part.

 

If 2" of spacers are so problematic, and you don't want to change parts, I'd just pull off 1" of spacers for the time being, or even shave a half-inch off one.

From what i have read 1" max without issues otherwise anyone with more runs into the passenger side halfshaft binding issues. At this point since i need better rear springs that can carry weight and I am putting in 2.5" lift land rover springs I'm pretty much commited. I can really only go up because stock rear springs are garbage. I might just stick with it and keep replacing drivers side half shafts until I can source 4" sfd spacers and maybe strut spacers, i do have the files. Seriously sfcreations needs to tell people running 2"+ in the front will cause the halfshaft to bind, not that it's the max you can go.

Edited by bertrenolds
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18 minutes ago, bertrenolds said:

From what i have read 1" max without issues otherwise anyone with more runs into the passenger side halfshaft binding issues. At this point since i need better rear springs that can carry weight wnd I am putting in 2.5" lift land rover springs I'm pretty much commited. I can really only go up because stock rear springs are garbage. I might just stick with it snd keep replacing drivers side half shafts until I can source 4" sfd spacers and maybe strut spacers, i do have the files. Seriously sfcreations needs to tell people running 2"+ in the front will cause the halfshaft to bind, not that it's the max you can go.

 

I've not read 1" as a max anywhere.  As mentioned, it may come down to CV manufacturer, or the possibility that the truck sits (or operates) at difference angles at different times.  I don't have a definitive answer to your truck, but I'd argue there are too many variables.  I've run between 1.5" and 2" of net lift (currently 5" of lift on 3" SFD) without issues.

 

Steve (aka @fleurys), the owner of SF Creation, is an active member of the community.  His spacers are pretty popular, and I don't think he's had many complaints about them.  I'd reach out to him directly if you have any concerns.

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11 minutes ago, hawairish said:

 

I've not read 1" as a max anywhere.  As mentioned, it may come down to CV manufacturer, or the possibility that the truck sits (or operates) at difference angles at different times.  I don't have a definitive answer to your truck, but I'd argue there are too many variables.  I've run between 1.5" and 2" of net lift (currently 5" of lift on 3" SFD) without issues.

 

Steve (aka @fleurys), the owner of SF Creation, is an active member of the community.  His spacers are pretty popular, and I don't think he's had many complaints about them.  I'd reach out to him directly if you have any concerns.

For the most part I don't have issues, it's when I turn hard to the right into a parking space, but it's only to the right. To the left, nothing. And I have searched a ton and its only the passenger side in any instance i found with a 2" lift, spring or spacer. I had a cardone from rock auto but that was defective from the get go and now a carquest and it's the same. Just something you have to live with. And any replys to my searches where people had no issues turned up 1" or less lifts like ome springs.

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10 minutes ago, bertrenolds said:

For the most part I don't have issues, it's when I turn hard to the right into a parking space, but it's only to the right. To the left, nothing. And I have searched a ton and its only the passenger side in any instance i found with a 2" lift, spring or spacer. I had a cardone from rock auto but that was defective from the get go and now a carquest and it's the same. Just something you have to live with. And any replys to my searches where people had no issues turned up 1" or less lifts like ome springs.

 

Interesting that you're running into issues when turning, usually the only issues people run into with a 2" or larger spacer lift is when the suspension is at full droop.  I personally had a 2" spacer lift (2.5" of actual lift) from sfcreation on mine for about a year and never had issues; it bound up lightly at full droop as I noticed when I had it jacked up to work on, but I never once rain into an issue on the trail other than occasionally tearing or popping off CV boots, but I've always chalked that up to other issues for the most part.  Have you tried a different CV axle, perhaps there's a defect in your passenger one for some reason?  In any case, as hawairish has said, you can totally do a 2" SFD, just have to keep in mind the complications he mentioned.  Is your rear end lifted with spacers as well, or springs?  If it's springs, I would suggest doing a 3" SFD up front just to make it easier to install and so you don't regret not going bigger later, and toss a 1" spacer in the rear to level it out.  I totally understand not wanting to redo the rear end again though.

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  • 1 month later...

 

I’m thinking about doing a 2.5” SFD(based on the previous comments about a 2” SFD being a little tricky) just to bring things back into alignment. I already have the 2”-2.5” SFcreation spacers. Do you think there’d be any issue doing the 2.5” SFD without touching the spacers up front? The strut spacers are only 2” but give 2.5” of lift somehow. And I’m assuming I really wouldn’t be lifting anything since I’m not planning on touching the springs or strut spacers. 

I’m also planning on pulling an accord steering link sometime soon and Im hoping that’ll work with only 2.5” of lift. I’m fully expecting to trim it down since it works with the higher lifts. I’m on a super budget.. ? 

One of my concerns is that I’m dropping the subframe 2.5” and I’ve only lifted my struts and springs 2”, do you guys think that’ll be an issue? Has anybody done anything similar? 

 

I’m just wondering if I need to wait on the SFD until I can get some lift springs or fab the strut spacers at 2.5”+ ??‍♂️??‍♂️

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I've done a 2.5" SFD, with 1.5" strut spacers and OME MD springs and a set of camber bolts.  Shouldn't have any issues with your setup.

The 2" strut spacers give a little north of 2" lift because of the geometry of the suspension.  Not sure it's 2.5", though, but perhaps somewhere in between.

As long as you can weld, you can make the Accord link work.  Just keep in mind that's a very custom approach.  I'd still pony up for a Woodward link.  If you ever increase to a larger SFD, you can just re-use the joints and swap in a longer shaft.

 

Notably, if you're not in any rush to do the SFD, perhaps hold out a little longer?  An SFD kit is in the works.

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8 hours ago, hawairish said:

I've done a 2.5" SFD, with 1.5" strut spacers and OME MD springs and a set of camber bolts.  Shouldn't have any issues with your setup.

The 2" strut spacers give a little north of 2" lift because of the geometry of the suspension.  Not sure it's 2.5", though, but perhaps somewhere in between.

As long as you can weld, you can make the Accord link work.  Just keep in mind that's a very custom approach.  I'd still pony up for a Woodward link.  If you ever increase to a larger SFD, you can just re-use the joints and swap in a longer shaft.

 

Notably, if you're not in any rush to do the SFD, perhaps hold out a little longer?  An SFD kit is in the works.

I can weld fairly well, and I have the means to whack parts down when the need arises. I even thought about adding bigger strut spacers and rear springs later, maybe going an .5”-1” over my SFD, like 3” or so.

 

Will you guys be coming out with a bumper as well? I’ve been looking at the Coastal kit and really like the way it looks, but wouldn’t mind keeping my money in America  ? ? ?? ?  ? 

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1 hour ago, threetoedsloth said:

I can weld fairly well, and I have the means to whack parts down when the need arises. I even thought about adding bigger strut spacers and rear springs later, maybe going an .5”-1” over my SFD, like 3” or so.

 

Will you guys be coming out with a bumper as well? I’ve been looking at the Coastal kit and really like the way it looks, but wouldn’t mind keeping my money in America  ?? ???  ? 

 

A little more lift over SFD height is fine, and in fact what I recommend.  It's a trade-off for ground clearance over OE geometry.

 

As for bumpers, I'd like to.  It's a long term plan @TowndawgR50 and I have discussed.  This may delay getting some of the bumper brackets out from my other thread; seems more convenient to have built, DIY, and builder parts options.  The near term focus is SFDs, though.

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It's doable, but 2" W material would be better.

 

For reference, this is what my current spacers look like:

 

IMG-3523.jpg

 

It's constructed of a piece of 2.5" sq. tube x 2.5" H x .250" wall, with 5.5" L x 2.5" W x .25" pads to make a 3" spacer (the height is irrelevant for this discussion, though; the 2.5" W base is what matters here).  You could easily just use a 2.5" x 2.5" x 5.5" tube to replicate this like other spacers, normally 2" W x 4" H x 6" L for some of the traditional spacers.  I did 5.5" L spacers to avoid having to notch anything for the passenger side where the brake lines come down (the metal guard shown in the pic).

 

Here are the gotchas:

 

1. A 2.5" wide spacer is just a tad too wide.  On the rear subframe, the width is perfect relative to the chassis.  But, the unseen lower edge of the spacer actually sits atop a weld on the subframe, like so:

 

IMG-3978.jpg

 

For the rear spacers, you could obviously offset the holes on the spacer to get around that, but the spacer wouldn't sit flush.  Also, if you do a simple tube approach, you have the radius edges to your advantage to some degree, but it may still be wide.

 

2. The front spacer is a little similar, but you can't offset the holes because of the lip on the chassis:

 

IMG-3982.jpg

 

Although this fits flat, it does barely contact similar weld on the subframe, it doesn't give much wiggle room for installation.  The radius edge of the tube would help here.

 

3.  A 2.5" sq. tube, presumably .250" if hitch steel, only leaves 2" of tool space inside the tube for tightening hardware.  It's doable, but just be prepared to make a lot of small motions to get the upper hardware tightened.  And if you orient the lower bolts tip-down (which you should), be sure to put those bolts in sometime before sandwiching things together, otherwise you might not have the clearance to insert the bolt or upper nut.

 

That all said, eventually I will go to spacers with a 2"W base to get around those issues, or possibly convert these by welding on a 2"W x .25"H plate to the bottom of each spacer to clear the subframe welds (resulting in a 3.25" spacer).

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  • 2 months later...
7 hours ago, threetoedsloth said:

This is my 2.5” SFD, I think it was a success!

 

Kudos for giving it a go.  However, it looks like you're using standard hex nuts without lock washers and flat washers, except on the head-side of the bolt.  The nut will likely loosen in that scenario, causing potential for the bolt to fall out because of its upward orientation.  Looks like you're also missing a washer on the front spacer.

 

You won't be able to fix the bolt orientation without completely loosening the spacers from the chassis, but you can address the other hardware issue without much effort.  

  • Bad: bolt - lock washer - flat washer - <steel> - nut 
  • Better: bolt - flat washer - <steel> - flat washer - lock washer - thread locker - nut

Even the "better" is bare minimum for this application.  I don't even recommend standard nuts here.  This is a high-torque (>110 ft lbs) application; your entire suspension, steering, and front axle are tied to this and will be twisting this every time you drive.  Play it safe.

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3 hours ago, hawairish said:

 

Kudos for giving it a go.  However, it looks like you're using standard hex nuts without lock washers and flat washers, except on the head-side of the bolt.  The nut will likely loosen in that scenario, causing potential for the bolt to fall out because of its upward orientation.  Looks like you're also missing a washer on the front spacer.

 

You won't be able to fix the bolt orientation without completely loosening the spacers from the chassis, but you can address the other hardware issue without much effort.  

  • Bad: bolt - lock washer - flat washer - <steel> - nut 
  • Better: bolt - flat washer - <steel> - flat washer - lock washer - thread locker - nut

Even the "better" is bare minimum for this application.  I don't even recommend standard nuts here.  This is a high-torque (>110 ft lbs) application; your entire suspension, steering, and front axle are tied to this and will be twisting this every time you drive.  Play it safe.

Yes, I’m aware of the bolt situation, an oversight on my part. I think Ive decided to just go back through with some loctite and dab a bit on each one vs swapping for nylon locknuts. Although, none of the subframe nuts are locknuts or had any kind of locking device.... just loads of torque. I torqued the heck out of all the bolts I installed, so I’m not worried about it for the time being. 

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20 minutes ago, threetoedsloth said:

Yes, I’m aware of the bolt situation, an oversight on my part. I think Ive decided to just go back through with some loctite and dab a bit on each one vs swapping for nylon locknuts. Although, none of the subframe nuts are locknuts or had any kind of locking device.... just loads of torque. I torqued the heck out of all the bolts I installed, so I’m not worried about it for the time being. 

Just keep in mind the extra height of the spacers subjects everything to side load stresses that the stock configuration is not subjected to, so the hardware for the sub frame spacers needs to be stronger than stock in my opinion. These are minor and easily fixed details though, it looks great! I like your steering shaft solution, simple yet effective! 

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I stressed about the steering link for a long time, but it ended up being one of the easiest parts of the whole process. I just didn’t have money for the Woodward steering link, but I didn’t think mine turned out too bad at all. 

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3 hours ago, threetoedsloth said:

Yes, I’m aware of the bolt situation, an oversight on my part. I think Ive decided to just go back through with some loctite and dab a bit on each one vs swapping for nylon locknuts. Although, none of the subframe nuts are locknuts or had any kind of locking device.... just loads of torque. I torqued the heck out of all the bolts I installed, so I’m not worried about it for the time being. 

 

Torque alone (even with thread locker) is insufficient for that application, especially with the incorrect fastener arrangement you've got.  You've put a standard nut over a hole without a lock and flat washer; you have no locking method and have significantly reduced contact area on a fastener that demands it.   Expect subframe shift, the edges of the nuts wallowing out the spacer holes, and a loose contact area over time.  Proper—and properly installed—hardware is cheap insurance for safety.  I'd be worried about it.

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