MrEviLDeD Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 Hey everyone! Hope all are doing well.. Had a question about the various methods you all use to find TDC on the compression stroke. I have seen a number of videos that use modified compression testers, using rope and screw drivers. Even saw one video about checking the rocker positions and the timing mark on the harmonic balancer.... I am a little daunted by this task as it needs to be done properly. So I am reaching out to the community to get an assessment on what has and does work best for you gals/guys.. Is there a very simple, fail safe manner in which to perform this task.. I know a pretty stupid question. I am going to head out and start the disassembly and will check back in a couple hours. (seems the wind has picked up so maybe not) I appreciate any suggestions. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PathyAndTheJets Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 Pull the dizzy cap, and all the plugs so you don't have to fight compression, The dizzy rotor should point to Cyl 1, or pass front cyl. to be more precise you can stick a screwdriver or something narrow and long in the cyl 1 spark plug hole and watch for where it stops going up and starts going down. TDC is where it kinda hangs after it goes up, before the piston goes back down. You can try using the harmonic balance, I forget which notch is zero on it though. I want to say its the last notch when turning clockwise, but tdc is only when the distributor rotor points to cyl 1 and the harmonic balance is on zero degrees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEviLDeD Posted December 18, 2016 Author Share Posted December 18, 2016 (edited) Excellent information. I read someplace through my travels that the first notch (from the top, going clockwise) on the balancer is -5 degrees and that the second one is 0 degrees. Would that sound correct to you? I have the FSM but that information doesn't seem to be provided (unless I am not looking on the right page in the correct section, not withstanding). it was also suggested to remove all the spark plugs.. Unless I break one I wont be replacing any of them this time around and i will have to do it in the spring. So I want to remove as few as possible to reduce the chance of breaking any of them. Site was suggesting the removal of the spark plugs to make it easy to turn the crank shaft. One further question. Can I use gasket maker with a paper gasket? Specifically the water pump gasket. I have silicone for the thermostat housing. The instructions suggest it is used for water pump applications but would rather use the ultra copper. Just not sure if I can or if the Ultra copper is for no gasket applications (metal-metal). Again pardon all the stupid questions and thank you very much for the prompt replies. I appreciate it huge! Edited December 19, 2016 by MrEviLDeD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PathyAndTheJets Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 I've never seen negative timing marks on a balancer, Usually 0, 5, 10, 15, ..ect From what I've seen in my fsm zero is the first mark when turning clock wise. Also it looks like the keyway for the crank should be pointing towards the passenger side cam. I wiped some weatherstrip adhesive on the mating surface of the water pump to glue the gasket in place. I set a book on top to make sure it was flat. Let it dry as i scraped the RTV off the block.Then I just installed it on the engine after the glue was dry. Holds it on so it doesn't slip around while you get it lined up. I don't put any goop on the gasket otherwise, as recommended by my Instructor in my automotive service classes. I've used the ultra copper spray to hold gaskets in place as well, I don't like it much, makes a mess, but it is fine for gaskets as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jester93 Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 First run down and get a spark plug tool. Or just build one out of an old plug and tap the center. With this installed in the #1 cylinder, bring the piston up till it just touches the stop. Mark your balancer with something fine and lasting. A silver pencil from the welding store is perfect. Now turn the crank backwards almost a full turn. Again bring the piston up to the stop and mark your balancer. You should now have two marks. The EXACT center between these two lines is your TRUE TDC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpecialWarr Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 The only other choice I can see is to artificially hold open the valves to remove the pressure buildup which is mostly just a pain, difficult, time-consuming and probably damage causing.... it's just way easier to brake the seal on the plugs! That being said: I understand that stripping out a plug hole is not cool and would prefer to fight the 200psi. One additional thing: make sure that IF you choose to leave the plugs that you use a ratchet to turn the crank. I know one guy who used a breaker bar and then got the end of that in the head by accident... it hurt.... a lot. To answer the question though: The number of lines on the pulley vary by year so the first line may be -5 or 0 or +5 degrees; there is no way to know _if_the correct and original pulley is one the motor BUT the timing is 12-18 degrees after top dead center. which could be the third, second or fourth line! I haven't done one on the Pathfinder BUT I would use the timing marks on the crank, in conjunction with the direction of the rotor AND an 8" vernier in the #1 spark plug hole. The question would remain that : is it the TDC on the compression stoke or not? The only way to know that is to rotate the crank BUT if _all_ of the plugs are in, you are going to be fighting 200psi every 60 degrees of rotation EXCEPT the #1. Not easy to work around or fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEviLDeD Posted December 19, 2016 Author Share Posted December 19, 2016 Appreciate the responses everyone. Thank you very much! Ok sounds like I will just try to remove the plugs to make life easier. I have a sparkplug toolset so I will use that. I tried to remove a plug a year back and stopped because it seems like I would break the plug. I will just go for it and see where it takes me.. Do not need a breaker bar in the forehead Will the distributer be pointing to the #1 cylinder on both the compression and the exhaust strokes or only on the compression stroke? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEviLDeD Posted December 19, 2016 Author Share Posted December 19, 2016 (edited) Warr, sorry to center you out specifically. Do you happen to remember what page in the FSM or what section it would be in? Referring to the marks on the balancer. I did not see anything in the FSM but that doesn't mean I missed it or wasn't looking in the right section. Also, I know I need to do the belt at TDC but after that what degree out of TDC should the pathfinder be for Canada? Do I just leave it when I have the belt changed? and one more silly question. Can I use something other than a feeler gauge for the tensioner? Like can I use a little shim of wood or metal that is about the same thickness as the FSM suggests? 0.35mm(0.0138") thick and 12.7mm(0.5") wide. I do not have access readily to a feeler. Thought I had two but they have been misplaced and no more time to head to the part/tool store Again thank you all for your help. I would be marginally lost without all of your insight and experience. Thank you.. (Hope to be able to eventually help others as I have been helped) Edited December 19, 2016 by MrEviLDeD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 Check out EF&EC 25. No adjustment should be needed after a timing belt job unless you remove the distributor, which you shouldn't have to do. I did on mine, but only because I was pulling the intake manifold to clean the rat crap out from underneath while I was in there. I used this writeup when I did my belt, and didn't bother with a shim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEviLDeD Posted December 20, 2016 Author Share Posted December 20, 2016 Ok thank you.. On the compressor. Is there only one bolt for the adjustment. FSM/HA-20 shows I think only one bolt..but the there are also bolts for the mounting plate as well.. Is there just a single adjustment bolt to get the belt off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 HA-20 shows an adjuster at the compressor for the four-cylinder, but doesn't show the adjustment for the VG. The one for the VG is the bolt going down into the plate with the idler pulley on it. You also have to loosen the nut that holds the pulley on before the pulley will move. MA-10 has a diagram. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEviLDeD Posted December 21, 2016 Author Share Posted December 21, 2016 Excellent! Thank you. I looked past that diagram without ever putting 2 and 2 together that those were adjusters. I didnt want to just start removing bolts so thought best to ask. Glad I did! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_RI Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 and one more silly question. Can I use something other than a feeler gauge for the tensioner? Like can I use a little shim of wood or metal that is about the same thickness as the FSM suggests? 0.35mm(0.0138") thick and 12.7mm(0.5") wide. I do not have access readily to a feeler. Thought I had two but they have been misplaced and no more time to head to the part/tool store Use the belt twist trick instead. It's been discussed numerous times and it's easy to do. If you can't find it, I'm sure someone here can describe the process. If not, I will chime in later when I have some free time.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEviLDeD Posted January 19, 2017 Author Share Posted January 19, 2017 I will certainly try the twist method too. I tend to be rather anal about how to go about it so as long as I have a few methods to validate then I hopefully should be good to go.. The only question I have regarding the twist method is where you twist.. do you twist between the cam sprockets, between the left side cam sprocket to the crank shaft gear, or the side with the the tensioner? Anyhow I am under the hood now and will check back.. getting ready to clean out all the gunk an such.. Looks like someone put a new belt on this thing as well. Anyhow back to the pathfinder (Affectionately called "the wild one" =) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEviLDeD Posted January 20, 2017 Author Share Posted January 20, 2017 Also. I stopped as I wasnt sure which was cylinder 1, and where it should be on the distributer cap.. I thought based on the youtube vids I have watched that it was the wire closest to the front of the truck however it appears tht cylinder 1 is the one closest to the firewall pointing towards the passenger seat... Now my question is this. If the valve cam gears line up with the marks on the timing back covers and matches the crankshaft gear indent does that mean reasonably that the engine is tdc on cylinder 1? Like is there another time those marks would line up? as this position if you look down at the distributer with the cap off from the front of the pathfinder it is pointing about 11 o'clock.. Pardon the stupid questions but as I said before this one is worrying me so want to make sure I am doing it correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citron Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 Cylinder 1 is the front passenger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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