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Old-timer finally joining the SFD bandwagon


XPLORx4
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Hey guys,

 

I've been quite satisfied with my 97 Pathfinder's off-road capability for nearly 10 years now. Believe it or not, it's still got just the 2" coil spring lift and 32" BFG KM2 tires. My last major wave of upgrades was in 2006-2007, when it got new t-case crawler gears, a front locker, and a custom rear bumper/tire carrier.

 

I have finally decided to bite the bullet and get a SFD. This means I will need all of the parts required to lift the Pathy another 4" (for a total of 6" lift, since I will keep the front 2" springs). Fortunately, I already have extended brake lines installed, which I added with the expectation of eventually getting the SFD.

 

However, I am a firm believer in a turnkey solution, which I haven't really seen made available anywhere.

 

I know I need subframe drop spacers, strut spacers, motor mount spacers, steering extension, and a panhard rod drop spacer (plus appropriate hardware).

 

Other than KRFabs, who else makes an R50 4" SFD kit?

 

Also, another thing that is still not clear to me is what is the best way to lift the rear suspension. SFD is great for lifting the front, but shouldn't the kit also include a simple way to lift the rear?

 

Also, I know I will need longer rear shocks, but again, getting shocks that are valved properly and have the right compressed/extended lengths is not well-documented.

 

I would appreciate help in getting all of the necessary parts together before taking the plunge.

 

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This is great!

I'm glad to see you doing this. I've done mine since we last talked about our trucks (back when I was newer on this forum).

 

So there really is no one making SFD kits for R50s except for KRFabs.

 

The reason his 'kits' don't include the rear end parts is simply because they are off the shelf components you can source more cheaply elsewhere.

 

So here is what you will want for the rear:

 

springs: Jeep WJ lift springs. 3" springs net you 4" on the R50. Get 4" lift springs for a WJ and get about 5.5". You can get a 5" spring and maybe get 6.5"+

Springs must have half of one pigtail cut off to fit the top spring perch. KRFabs now offers a coil spring adapter that nets 1" lift and I am assuming, lets you use the spring without cutting the pigtail? Check on that if you might want that option.

 

Shocks: for the 4" lift everyone has been getting F-250 shocks. They bolt right in with the small exception that they need bushings to net the right spacing at the eyelet. Are they suitable for 6" lift? Sure, but if they aren't long enough, they could limit the articulation. If you want maximum articulation then look up their specs.

You wouldn't expect this, but my Rancho 5000 shocks for the F-250 are not valved firm enough in my opinion. It's not bad, mind you...just not optimal. But the more expensive Rancho 9000 shocks are probably adjustable??? So you would have no problem tuning them to your liking.

 

You can probably use KRFabs' PHB drop bracket with 6" lift, even though it's for 4" of drop. Or you can make your own if you have a welder.

 

 

If you want to make your own 4" spacers for up front, you just need some square tubing stock, cut and drilled appropriately. You could get the steering spacer from KRFabs, or buy it yourself from the vendor he sources his from.

I bought the kit and a few options and have no buyer's remorse.

 

It's his 4" strut spacers that have the correct angle built in to maintain camber, that I really like and that you would probably want to buy even if you custom make the rest of the lift yourself. But then again, you were wanting a turnkey solution. So you will want his full kit and just those aftermarket springs and shocks to finish the job.

 

 

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jyeager- I don't want to build it myself. I don't have the time or motivation. I read on the pinned topic about the SFD that online orders at KRFabs are not being accepted. Huh? Can anyone weigh in on this?

 

Also, what are your opinions about 2x4 stock being cut and drilled vs blocks that use a different shape/design. Probably my main concern with 2x4 stock is that over time it could look like this:

___

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I have seen others who make their SFD drop brackets like this:

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I do agree, though, that the most important parts are the strut spacers which have the proper camber angle.

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CDN_S4 are those shocks mounted body up or down?

 

If you follow the writing on the sticker then they should be body up with the rubber part on the bottom. But since I prefer keeping that part out of the mud, I've always mounted my Bilsteins (2nd pair now - first was too short for the 6" lift) with the body down and the rubber up. It will fit both ways I guess, but like I said, I've always mounted them body down.

 

You are the second guy now that says KRFabs is no longer taking orders. That's a real bummer, he was the only one that made an actual full kit.

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For what it's worth, I've been trying to mock-up rear lift items for a more comprehensive SFD package, since I'm in need of a little more rear lift. The WJ springs are a reasonable approach, but I'm not sure how many people are willing to buy new springs and immediately cut them down. I'm still researching other non-spacer solutions. I'm also hoping to have a work estimate to get some trailing arms welded up, as well as quotes for some other parts.

 

Hopefully I can help you out down the line.

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There's that of course, but then again there's also the means to cut them. Of all the cutting tools I do have, even I don't have something suitable to do it. Nothing a cheap HF cut-off couldn't solve of course.

 

I think I may have a suitable replacement that's available off-the-shelf and has several options, including variable spring rates, and is for a far more popular vehicle than the WJ. By my numbers, OE springs could net 4", and lift springs that much more. A guy in my area has a set handy, so hoping I can pick them up over the weekend.

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jyeager- I don't want to build it myself. I don't have the time or motivation. I read on the pinned topic about the SFD that online orders at KRFabs are not being accepted. Huh? Can anyone weigh in on this?

 

Also, what are your opinions about 2x4 stock being cut and drilled vs blocks that use a different shape/design. Probably my main concern with 2x4 stock is that over time it could look like this:

___

\ \

\ \

----

 

I have seen others who make their SFD drop brackets like this:

======

| |

======

 

I do agree, though, that the most important parts are the strut spacers which have the proper camber angle.

 

Well, just call or email KRFabs. Perhaps they just aren't taking the orders online at the moment for technical reasons.

A lot of guys have those 2x4 blocks, ask around to see if anyone's blocks have bent. They are pretty much in straight compression, rather than sheer (except when cornering hard when doing autocross!). Consider welding them in. You could also internally gusset them if you are worried.

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There's that of course, but then again there's also the means to cut them. Of all the cutting tools I do have, even I don't have something suitable to do it. Nothing a cheap HF cut-off couldn't solve of course.

 

I think I may have a suitable replacement that's available off-the-shelf and has several options, including variable spring rates, and is for a far more popular vehicle than the WJ. By my numbers, OE springs could net 4", and lift springs that much more. A guy in my area has a set handy, so hoping I can pick them up over the weekend.

 

You don't have a cut-off wheel or a sawzall? Hmmm... Have a friend cut them.

For some reason, I never had a moment of heartache cutting the new springs I had purchased.

But I would prefer a solution that doesn't require cutting....A simple insert for the top perch that accepts the pigtail would solve that.

The WJ springs are a good option because they are so plentiful and inexpensive in different lift options.

If you have found something even more plentiful, then kudos! And these have both ends identical to the Pathfinder springs?

 

Out with it! What vehicle??? ;)

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Yes a simple adapter for the top perch of the rear coil would work well and would be simple enough to make/ install. I custom built one for the lower perch that includes a bolt on retaining mechanism.

What I've done to mitigate the loss of extra height from cutting the spring, and at the same time as sort of adapter, I've used one of Fleurys spacers on the top mount.

933c102bb6c0b20a1e3b14c712ae6ab5.jpg

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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On my wish list. b5fc03d6465c68d3f6914e585c9ed283.jpg

Just can't quite fathom spending 950$ on rear shocks just yet. Although I do get a substantial discount through a good friend at 4WheelParts. Still a lot of dough to shell out for rear shocks. I'm

Currently running the (Ford 2001) F-250 2" lift Bilstiens. WJ 6" coils cut pigtail on top to fit with the KR adapters on the bottom. Custom UTA's were needed to "re-center" the rear diff.

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You don't have a cut-off wheel or a sawzall? Hmmm... Have a friend cut them.

For some reason, I never had a moment of heartache cutting the new springs I had purchased.

But I would prefer a solution that doesn't require cutting....A simple insert for the top perch that accepts the pigtail would solve that.

The WJ springs are a good option because they are so plentiful and inexpensive in different lift options.

If you have found something even more plentiful, then kudos! And these have both ends identical to the Pathfinder springs?

 

Out with it! What vehicle??? ;)

 

Well, I have a sawzall, but using that doesn't seem like fun. (I'll have a cut-off soon enough, but not for cutting springs)

 

The springs in mind are from a 3rd or 4th Gen 4Runner, or any FJ Cruiser. The ID of the rear springs is around 5"-5.5" and pigtails around 3-3/8" from what I've researched. We're 5" ID.

 

To put things in perspective...

OE R50 springs (Moog 81115) are spec'd at 14.3" free-height @ 120 lbs/in spring rate.

OME R50 springs are 14.3"@ 140 lbs/in.

OE rear FJ is 14.9" @ 180-190 lbs/in.

OE 3rd Gen 4R (particularly MY99, the "tall year") is 16.25" @ 150 lbs/in.

OME 896 (HD for an FJ) measured 15-1/8" with an ID of 5-1/16" per a local seller this morning; OME specs at 15.35" @ 318 lbs/in. (This would be a rough ride empty...but loaded up, probably rock solid. Important part is that ID he gave).

 

Assuming for a moment that both ends fit our perches, it's clear we'd get appreciable lift from any OE 4R/FJ spring simply because of the spring rate and free height. Add 2" for having to mount the pigtail on a perch. Now we're in the ballpark of 4"-6" of lift, without cutting.

 

There are tons of spring options for those vehicles, including a few variable-rate springs. OME springs are the same price as ours, but OE Moog springs are $50/pair..."lift" springs for 25% of what OME's cost? Yes, please!

 

So anyway, there's where my mind is at.

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Ok, so my mind went nuts on this topic over the weekend. I'm moving things forward (as best as I can with weekly work travel for the near future, anyway), since some others have been PM'ing me.

 

I ordered a pair Moog 80145 springs. $46 shipped from Amazon (Prime). They are for an 03-07 4Runner. OME coils shares fitment with 03-10 4Runners and all FJs, btw.

 

These have a 190 lbs/in spring rate, same(ish) free height as stock (and OME), and ID of 5.34" (vs 5.06"). I plan to build a bolt-on "top hat" adapter that supports a lower spring isolator and clip to prevent coil fall-out. Since this may net about 6" of lift, I have a similar plan to use 2nd Gen 4R Moog springs for something more moderate (and spec'd near OE R50 spring rate).

 

I also ordered a set of poly bushings as inexpensive option for use in beefier, custom-length trailing arms.

 

And then, not to blow smoke up anyone's arse, I have a design for a lower strut adapter. It would net a little over 3", allow for camber adjustment, move the spring perch way up, and not prohibit use of lift springs or strut spacers. 7" of lift would not be out of the question. Of course, this means nothing without subframe spacers...and needless to say, I have a redesign that may make a 6" subframe spacer practical and provide necessary lateral support.

 

Stay tuned, of course...

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Ok, so my mind went nuts on this topic over the weekend. I'm moving things forward (as best as I can with weekly work travel for the near future, anyway), since some others have been PM'ing me.

 

I ordered a pair Moog 80145 springs. $46 shipped from Amazon (Prime). They are for an 03-07 4Runner. OME coils shares fitment with 03-10 4Runners and all FJs, btw.

 

These have a 190 lbs/in spring rate, same(ish) free height as stock (and OME), and ID of 5.34" (vs 5.06"). I plan to build a bolt-on "top hat" adapter that supports a lower spring isolator and clip to prevent coil fall-out. Since this may net about 6" of lift, I have a similar plan to use 2nd Gen 4R Moog springs for something more moderate (and spec'd near OE R50 spring rate).

 

I also ordered a set of poly bushings as inexpensive option for use in beefier, custom-length trailing arms.

 

And then, not to blow smoke up anyone's arse, I have a design for a lower strut adapter. It would net a little over 3", allow for camber adjustment, move the spring perch way up, and not prohibit use of lift springs or strut spacers. 7" of lift would not be out of the question. Of course, this means nothing without subframe spacers...and needless to say, I have a redesign that may make a 6" subframe spacer practical and provide necessary lateral support.

 

Stay tuned, of course...

 

Great. I'm interested in what you learn about the rear spring options.

 

The bottom-design strut spacer is an idea that I played around with. It seems like it would be simple and effective. Good for you pressing forward with it.

 

Question regarding your new trailing arms....Why? I mean, I understand that the tires will visually be moved forward once you lift, but when the suspension compresses it would move back to center giving the best clearance in the wheel wells...but if you lengthen the control arms to make it look centered at the lifted ride height, you will rub the rear of the fender openings when you compress the suspension...? Or do I not reason that correctly?

Also, how far can you stretch it out before you need to have the driveshaft lengthened?

 

 

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For the trailing arms, I'm going to try a set of OE lengths first. The purpose there is to have a stronger set of lower arms. But with the approach I'm taking, I'm also hoping to have an inexpensive answer to poly bushings. They will not use OE-size bushings.

 

But custom length arms go beyond wheel centering. They're also for correcting driveshaft and pinion angles. Lengthening a pair, or even lengthening both (by same or different lengths) may not improve anything. Depends on the link setup.

 

I've not crunched the numbers, but I think we would benefit most by only a longer length upper arm. This would effectively tilt the axle back, center the wheel, and make the pinion and driveshaft more inline with each other. On up-travel, axle would stay centered...doesnt seem like it would, but it's entirely related to where all the link mounts are as the axle travels.

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Work out the lengths for the upper links and axle/driveline angles properly, since if you tilt the axle back too much, you may need to also reposition/reweld the panhard rod mount

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For the trailing arms, I'm going to try a set of OE lengths first. The purpose there is to have a stronger set of lower arms. But with the approach I'm taking, I'm also hoping to have an inexpensive answer to poly bushings. They will not use OE-size bushings.

 

But custom length arms go beyond wheel centering. They're also for correcting driveshaft and pinion angles. Lengthening a pair, or even lengthening both (by same or different lengths) may not improve anything. Depends on the link setup.

 

I've not crunched the numbers, but I think we would benefit most by only a longer length upper arm. This would effectively tilt the axle back, center the wheel, and make the pinion and driveshaft more inline with each other. On up-travel, axle would stay centered...doesnt seem like it would, but it's entirely related to where all the link mounts are as the axle travels.

 

Yes I see...

I only have 4" of lift and don't have any noticeable vibration from the change to pinion angle, but if you are going for 6+", you very well might. So correcting the pinion angle sounds like a very good idea.

 

Most people think that you need to point the pinion at the transmission's tail shaft, but you actually want your pinion angle to cancel out your slip-yoke angle. If one is 10 degrees, the other should be -10 degrees.

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Work out the lengths for the upper links and axle/driveline angles properly, since if you tilt the axle back too much, you may need to also reposition/reweld the panhard rod mount

 

Yes, but at the same time wanted it back a little to reduce the angle of the PHB bushings. Also getting the spring perches centered-up and squared so that the springs don't want to push outward.

 

That all said, it actually seems like the ideal solution might be a small increase in length on the lower arm, and a larger increase on the upper arm.

 

 

Yes I see...

I only have 4" of lift and don't have any noticeable vibration from the change to pinion angle, but if you are going for 6+", you very well might. So correcting the pinion angle sounds like a very good idea.

 

Most people think that you need to point the pinion at the transmission's tail shaft, but you actually want your pinion angle to cancel out your slip-yoke angle. If one is 10 degrees, the other should be -10 degrees.

 

Correct, you want to net-out the angles on our driveshafts, since this minimizes acceleration/deceleration that the driveshaft can see. Driveshafts with constant-velocity joints don't need this, though.

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Update...

 

The poly bushings I intend to use for the trailing arms are a perfect fit.

 

IMG_3915.jpg

 

And this poly spring isolator is a perfect fit for the perch and pigtail...

 

IMG_3916.jpg

 

IMG_3918.jpg

 

 

Edited by hawairish
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Update...

 

The poly bushings I intend to use for the trailing arms are a perfect fit.

 

IMG_3915.jpg

 

And this poly spring isolator is a perfect fit for the perch and pigtail...

 

IMG_3916.jpg

 

IMG_3918.jpg

 

 

Where'd you get that poly spring insulator

 

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

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