JackStraw1 Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 Hey all, Happy Spring !!! Well, I finally got around to changing the valve cover gaskets after a looooong winter and 200k + miles Gaskets were leaking like a sieve and were so brittle they just snapped like pretzels, lol Intake plenum really didn't look too bad for the high miles but I cleaned it with carb cleaner anyway. Replaced the upper intake gasket with a new metal one. While I was there replaced a bunch of petrified breather hoses, the PCV valve and all the vacuum lines. So now, I have a high idle of around 1500 rpm at start up and it settles to maybe 1100 after warm up. I checked for coolant bubbles with the front jacked -- nada Visually checked the plenum gasket. Looks to be seated and symmetric. Bolts are tight. Checked for vacuum leaks - none that I can telll or hear. Interestingly, when I pull the hoses, I don't hear or feel vacuum. Haven't tried this with someone on the gas pedal but I would think there should be some vacuum at idle? Checked throttle plate - moves freely and it closes all the way ( the accelerator cable doesn't hold it open when pedal is up) EGR valve moves freely (its a little squeaky) - this does bring the idle down. Ran through the FSM testing for high idle - no change with clamping the air regulator hose or diconnecting the O2 sensor Checked the TPS for the hell of it. I get about 1. 4 kOhms closed, 4.5 kOhms at half open and nothing at WOT (supposed to read 9 kOhms). So this look like it is bad but I am not sure it is really related to what is happening with idle. Didn't really touch anything else so i'm thinking it has to be related to what I did (of course) but you never know with these older high mileage girls. Haven't checked the coolant sensor yet, but gauge is reading normally. Only other thing I can think of before gettin into the whole FSM testing ritual is that the ignition timing may be off a little because the distributor had to come out to take of the plenum. I did mark it and put it back the way it was but I'm thinking it could be off a bit and I don't have a timing light. Truck runs great otherwise with no hesitation, stalling, surge, or hunting idle. Exhaust is a little sweet smelling and has been for a while. (I think this may be related to leak) Check engine light is not on. Does the ECM store codes even if CEL doesn't come on ? Anyone experience this after pulling the upper intake ? Appreciate any advice. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpecialWarr Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 (edited) Did you perform the Idle re-learn procedure according to the FSM? In consequence of the distributor movement I would start there before the Idle re-learn and borrow/ rent /steal a timing light. The answer is ~15 degrees Before Top Dead Center... Edited April 28, 2015 by SpecialWarr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw1 Posted April 28, 2015 Author Share Posted April 28, 2015 I don't think there is an re-learn procedure for WD-21's other than driving it for a while ? I had the battery disconnected during the work so that should have cleared the ECM - but i had no codes to begin with. Just doing routine maintenance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowork Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 check u didn't pull the wire off the idle air control valve, which is in the back of engine, rt. side, close to the fire wall u should be cold idle at 1100 or so & warm at 700 rpm. the electrical connector snugs up pretty good, but in older vehicles u might have popped it off during the recent work. when i replaced my IACV i didn't have room to put the "U" shaped metal clip on the electrical connector. check to make sure u'r metal clip is on the connector, else it's easy to pop it off while doinking around back there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw1 Posted April 29, 2015 Author Share Posted April 29, 2015 The IACV connector looks to be on pretty good. The CEL did finally come on and threw out the codes for coolant sensor and knock sensor. Coolant sensor connector checks out OK, sensor itself also appears good ( I only checked with cold engine but ohms read where they are supposed to according to FSM. I guess I'll check with engine hot tomorrow). Knock sensor - idk, I'm thinking this will clear when idle issue is resolved. Cleared codes after checking out coolant sensor. It idled down to about 900 on its own tonight after retightening all hose clamps and jimmying the connectors but then crept back up after the test drive. During test drive the CEL kept winking in and out. I'm gonna borrow or buy a timing light and check that out tomorrow or Friday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpecialWarr Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 There is also the possibility that the idle adjustment screw was backed off at some point. Something else to check on after you verify that the base timing is good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 There should be vacuum at idle. It sounds like something didn't seal right or a line didn't go back on. Check the hose for the fuel pressure regulator (back of the intake), it's tough to see and I didn't hear anything when it was unhooked on my '93. Also check your vac lines against the routing diagram under the hood on the off chance you crossed the streams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw1 Posted April 30, 2015 Author Share Posted April 30, 2015 @Slartibartfast. I re-checked all vacuum lnes. All were in place and are where they are supposed to go. The only one I didn't replace was #7 from the EVAP purge to the back of the throttle body. That is on pretty tight and looks good too. Here's a really strange new finding. I put a timing light on it and the marks aren't even close. They are all counter clockwise to the pointer by about almost 70 degrees. I had the A/T in neutral, no load. Had the inductive lead on the #1 plug wire and yes it was pointed the right way. Truck is running pretty good despite this. Pointer looks a little bent too. Is it supposed to come straight out or does the tip point a little bit to the drivers side ? (mine does) Correct me if I am wrong but the crank pulley or HB can only go on one way because it is keyed right ? So I musta put the distributor in improperly when reassembling ? Can't believe the truck is running like this..........<smh> I don't think I can adjust the distributor enough by rotating it but I haven't tried yet. Seems like i would have to pull it, line up #1 at TDC and start from scratch. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw1 Posted April 30, 2015 Author Share Posted April 30, 2015 Well after looking through one of the older threads on timing belt replacement, it does appear that the crank pulley can be re-installed in different positions and this appears to be the case here. I think it was reinstalled 90 off CCW. No other reasonable explanation I can think of. If anyone else thinks it might be something else before I go to change the crank pulley position by all means post it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw1 Posted April 30, 2015 Author Share Posted April 30, 2015 Actually, that doesn't really make much sense. (I don't see a post edit feature so sorry for the multiple posts) The crank pulley is keyed and can only go on one way. Stumped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingman Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 The older ones have a removable front pulley with the timing marks that can be bolted on six different ways. The crank pulley it's self can only go on one way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terranovation Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Mine had the high idle thing and it was because I changed the coolant but didn't run the fan with the temperature on hot. I could hear coolant splashing around in the heater box and once I put the heater on, it must have filled up with coolant then I added more coolant to get the air out. Idle returned to normal doing this. Try running the fan on hot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw1 Posted April 30, 2015 Author Share Posted April 30, 2015 The older ones have a removable front pulley with the timing marks that can be bolted on six different ways. The crank pulley it's self can only go on one way. Do you know if that's the case on a 94 SE? I'm pretty sure it came off in one piece when I did the TB a few years back but I'm gettin old and can't be sure,lol ( been raining here all day and just got home from work. Haven't been able to crawl under and have a look ) Mine had the high idle thing and it was because I changed the coolant but didn't run the fan with the temperature on hot. I could hear coolant splashing around in the heater box and once I put the heater on, it must have filled up with coolant then I added more coolant to get the air out. Idle returned to normal doing this. Try running the fan on hot. Did it. Burped the system with front end jacked up too. Seemed to help a bit. Didn't open the air bleeder on the intake by the IAVC air regulator though. Figured I'd try to get the timing marks where they should be first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw1 Posted May 4, 2015 Author Share Posted May 4, 2015 (edited) So..... still trying to get to the bottom of the crank pulley timing marks being off 45-90 degrees CCW. I pulled the upper timing belt cover and cranked the engine around by hand until I got the timing marks on the cam sprockets to line up with the marks on the belt and both of those to line up with the dimples on the rear TB cover. The #1 cylinder was TDC on compression stroke and the distributor rotor is pointing at the #1 cylinder. Here's what I'm seeing r So, since the crank pulley is keyed and can only go on one way.... I guess there are only two possibilites 1. the crank was not correctly positioned when I put the new belt on 3 years ago. (truck has been running well since then and although this seems to be the most likely possibility to me, I'm having a hard time believing that there would not have been a noticeable decrease in power or some kind of mechanical problem related to the valves in all that time of driving the vehicle) 2. The crank pulley has slipped on the rubber damper ( this seems very unlikely but I came across it when reading a few threads on other forums on timing to see if I had missed anything. It happened with some other vehicles, can't find any posts on whether it happened with a Pathfinder. Has anyone ever seen or heard of this? Is it even possible ? (I don't have a spare crank pulley to get a better look) Appreciate any thought before I have to go and take off the crank pulley and coolant and AT lines to get the lower timing cover off. Edited May 4, 2015 by JackStraw1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R3DN1CK Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 So weird... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw1 Posted May 7, 2015 Author Share Posted May 7, 2015 Ok, I bet folks are just dying to know what happened with this, lol I was about to take off the crank pulley and had a chain strap around the pulley and was seeing if i could break the bolt loose before having to resort to heavier duty methods. The bolt start turning really easily ( or so I thought) . Turns out the pulley came right off of the rubber harmonic balancer. Looks like it is a three piece pulley to me. The rubber damper, the water pump/alternator pulley, the PS pump pulley which are together on one piece of metal and then the A/C pulley. They all bolt together and yes it can be put back together incorrectly and cause the timing marks to be off center. I don't see anything to indicate that the rubber part was ever bonded to the metal pulley. Someone please correct me if this is not true. Here's a few pics. The rubber damper bolted to the crank Three pulleys, 2 pieces 2 pieces apart Inner surface Interface between pulley and rubber damper. Inner pulley rotated so timing marks are at 12 o'clock The third pulley on. Timing marks at top. This looks much better to me. Time to but it all back together. I remember taking off the outermost pulley when I did the timing belt but I don't remember the inner part coming off the rubber damper. I guess it definitely rotated somewhere's along the way. Live and learn. Now if I could find some rubber washers for the ones that have dry rotted on my TB cover bolts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpecialWarr Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 Thanks for the update on that one! Nice pics of the pulley assembly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msavides Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 I did the same thing when I did my Timing belt/waterpump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStraw1 Posted May 11, 2015 Author Share Posted May 11, 2015 Well, I feel a little better knowing I was not the only one, lol I hope the pics will help someone who may run into the same prob. Mods please feel free to move any of this to the TB section or change the thread heading to "Timing marks off" or something similar if you feel it would be of benefit to others. BTW, my initial timing came in at 10 degrees BTDC. I corrected it to 15 degrees BTDC per the FSM. I'm pretty sure the timing was accurate all along and that it just recently changed due to my monkeying around with the distributor while trying to get to the bottom of this. Still with a bit of a high idle though and still smells to be running rich. Didn't take out all the plugs because I didn't have air to blow out all the crud around them but the #1 plug looked pretty clean and not fouled like I would have expected with a chronic rich condition. So I'm thinking the smell is an exhaust leak issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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