Jump to content

Due to a hardware failure on the hosts systems, all posts and messages created between May 26th and Jan 13th have been lost. Additionally, if you joined the NPORA Forums community during that time, you'll need to re-register. -NPORA Mod Team *Updated: 05/19/2022 12:15AM PST

Allignment run-around NEED HELP.


Ozzyross
 Share

Recommended Posts

Installed a 3 in suspension lift kit from nissan 4x4 parts.com ,this one to be exact.

https://www.4x4parts.com/nissan/pathfinder-deluxe-suspension-package-with-rs9000xl-shocks-p-1626.html

 

And after re-indexing the torsion bars it set the camber to super positive with the tops of the front tires hanging out. So I removed the shims behind the UAC spindle and just left 1 washer behind each bolt. It straigthened the tires but the front of the truck still isn't level. Allignment shops and even the local 4wd shops keep tellin me they don't know what to do. 4x4 reccomended low profile bumpstops and balljoint spacers but it says the ball joint spacers will re set the camber to positive. I'm clueless. any suggestions??

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

How far have you cranked the t-bars? If you have the 4x4parts control arms installed, and the bars are barely cranked above stock height, you will have this problem. To see what I mean, jack the front end up to let the suspension hang, and you will see the camber go way negative.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 months later...

Like Ozzyross, I am having problems with my front end suspension. I just bought my Pathfinder this summer, it has a body lift and suspension lift. I just got done replace the tie rods, upper and lower ball joints, brake pads, inner and outer bearings in hub, sway bar bushings, and cv axels. Now the front tires are bowed out and I know it needs an alignment but the two and only 4x4 shops are clueless and have talked me out of an alignment. I have 35" Mikey T's on it. Will an alignment fix the tires from being bowed out? I have even looked at buying an entire new suspension but the suspension that's on it now is from Rancho. I am a younger guy that's trying to learn on the fly, but I have run into a wall. I would appreciate any help you can give me. I have got so frustrated that I have considered just selling it. The shops told me the upper control arms are hitting the frames bump stops. Please help

Link to comment
Share on other sites

IIRC fixing the camber is just a matter of adding or removing shims from between the UCAs and the frame, and should be well within the capabilities of an alignment shop. If it is riding on the bump stops, though, you might want to back off the T-bars a little, it'll ride like crap that way.

 

If you put up a pic of your setup, somebody might be able to point you better.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Are the tires leaned out at the top like this \ / or leaned in at the top like this / \?

 

If they are leaned out at the top, you have positive camber and need to remove alignment shims behind the front upper control arms. If they are leaned in at the top then you have negative camber and need to add shims behind the front upper control arms.

 

I think I may make a write up on this topic when I tackle Kats truck, as this seems to be a popular subject. :)

Edited by Nefarious
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

I just got the same uca from 4x4parts and I have the same problem with my tires. I read every ones post and a buddy and I are going to respline the t bars like 4x4parts told me to do and start over again. I can't load pic do to my phone broke lol. I had some one tell me the uca are to long for the pathy? What do you guys think and have you fixed your problems yet?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think the alignment is wacky depending on a lot of things... I had some brand name uca off of a 720 that were supposed to be the same as the WD21. But I think they were actually shorter than the pathfinder ones. I ran em for a little while as I only offroad the pathfinder. I think the photo in my profile pic has em on there. It ended up ripping the ball joint mounting surface from the passenger upper after a small beating.

 

Bought the 4X4 parts UCA for a pathfinder nad the alignment issue seemed to resolve itself or at least make it adjustable to the point where it's ok. The UCA change the geometry and so the T-Bar to shim ratio is wacky. I work at a dealer and my guys couldn't figure it out. Took it to a front end shop and they ended up removing almost all the shims and now it drives ok.

 

Forgot to add I also am running wheel spacers in the front.... to add to the alignment mess.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi!

 

I also have the 4x4parts UCA installed and t-bars cranked pretty high.

After the install i let a shop do a "complete alignment" of the front end.

When i got the car back i noticed that it pulled slightly to the right so i contacted the shop again and found out that the had only done a toe in/out alignment. I told them about the shims on the UCA but the did not seem to care at all what i said.

 

Now i have tried to look at the camber alignment a bit myself since it started to weare the tires.

I put the car on a flat place then used a "water level" (not sure about the english word) and then measured the difference at the bottom and top of the rim.

Ok i know this is probably not dead accurate but it gave me an indication.

 

On the right wheel i had 4mm positive camber, using a trigonometry calculator i got that to about 0.6 degrees positive camber.

I read that the camber should be adjusted to 0.1 to 1 degrees positive, same on both wheels.

On the left wheel i had 2mm negative camber, which i got to 0.3 degrees negative camber.

This would explain the tracking to the right...right????

 

So the right wheel should be ok, and the left wheel should be shimed out 6mm(!) at the top of the rim.

Can someone please give some input on my teories, am i on the right track here?

I im planning to borrow a laser level and try do the allignment as god as possible.

 

One more thing, i did not mark up the inner side on the rod that mounts the UCA to the frame when installing the new ones.

Is it important which side mounts to the frame?

Could that explain the big camber difference?

 

A lot of text, probably in bad english....sorry!

 

/hagge

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think you are on the wright track and just make sure you have .1- to 1.1+ on the camber. I would take it to a different alignment shop instead of doing it yourself bro. you wont get it how it needs to be and you will be fighting it the whole way. I just got done going throw it myself this week and it was worth the money to take it somewhere else. p.s. make sure your caster is the same and it dose not matter if its + or - they just need to be the same. I hope this helps you if it dose at all lol.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Maybe you are right!

I think i will get the left wheel within spec, as close to the right wheel as possible, see if that helps.

Then try to find a shop that can do this properly.

For a shop with the right equipment it can't be rocket science????

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You don't want positive camber. You want 0.1 to 1 degrees of negative camber. Negative camber will aid in handling, positive camber will hurt handling. 1 degree of negative camber is not enough to affect tire wear as long as the toe is set properly.

 

For caster, the more caster you can get, the better. There is basically no limit of positive caster. The caster is what centers the wheel back to center and keeps the vehicle stable at speeds.

 

For setting camber, you want to place shims under both UCA bolts. To set caster you place shims under only the forward most UCA bolt. That's why there's more shims in the front then the back. Your camber angle will have very little effect on tracking, the caster is what will really effect vehicle tracking (as well as toe). Your right front wheel should have just a slight bit more positive caster than your front left wheel. This is due to the natural crown of the road for drainage. The increased caster on the front right will fight the crown of the road (which will pull you to the right if not set correctly).

 

It seems no alignment shops like to tackle the alignment job properly.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Agreed. Take it to another shop, preferably one that's well renowned. Shim style set ups are a pain in the butt because when you change the rear, you change the front and visa versa. Plus for every shim added or removed, they need to get back in and do another caster swing (start the engine, turn the wheels back and forth and return to center so the machine reads the changes.) Any caster or camber change effects the toe set as well, which is why it needs to be last and shouldn't be done unless all of the other angles are in spec.

 

Anything over a half a degree on camber will wear a tire and the machine won't like it either.

Edited by Kingman
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't know why you would ever want positive camber. I am speaking from the perspective of proper alignment theory. Positive camber means the wheels will be angled like this \ / with the tops of the tires leaned out. That will be detrimental to your handling as opposed to negative camber which will have the wheels oriented like this / \ with the tops leaned in. I don't care what a repair manual says. I have aligned my own pathy as well as my cars for years and they all ride superbly with no uneven wear patterns. I run 4 degrees negative camber up front, 1.5 degrees negative camber in rear with 8.5 degrees positive caster and proper toe settings and even with that aggressive alignment, I have even wear. It's just more sensitive to toe wear as camber increases (up to a certain point). My pathy runs 1 degree negative camber front and 0 rear obviously and it rides great and handles well after 7 inches of suspension lift and I also have even tire wear. 25k km on my current 33x12.5 duratracs and they are still barely worn.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A little positive camber is supposed to reduce steering effort (not sure how). A couple degrees + is standard for Triumphs, and farm tractors apparently use a lot of it. The FSM says to adjust somewhere between -0°10' and 1°10', and I'm not entirely sure how that notation is meant to be read, but I'm guessing it means to err slightly positive.

 

I dunno why a rig with power steering would need positive camber, but apparently Nissan thought they did. :scratchhead:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

Welcome to NPORA Forums

 

Please register to gain full access to the forum.

Make sure you read the Forum Guidelines and don't forget to post a new intro in the New People Start Here! section, to say hi too everyone.

 

-NPORA

×
×
  • Create New...