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to hone or not to hone that is the question


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I've got a a vg33 with the heads off and out of the truck. I'm debating re-ringing it. Does it need a new hone on the cylinders or can I just get a new set of rings and go?

If I do need to hone the cylinders can I do that at home for less than $100 or should I have a shop do it? I didn't think to do a compression test before I pulled the heads.

The engine was bought from a junk yard that didn't keep very good records so I don't know how many miles are on it. Before I pulled the heads (radiator hose blew over heated) the engine ran smooth and didn't burn oil.

Thanks

Edited by ejin4499
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It depends...The main reason I know of to hone the cylinders is to seat new rings.

Do a visual inspection first, what do you see? Feel test, is there a step or taper? Quantify, what do the cylinders measure at 0 and 90 degrees, above and below the top end of stroke wear? (bore gauge or telescoping ID gauge/micrometers)

How do those numbers match allowable tolerances?

 

B

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It depends...The main reason I know of to hone the cylinders is to seat new rings.

Do a visual inspection first, what do you see? Feel test, is there a step or taper? Quantify, what do the cylinders measure at 0 and 90 degrees, above and below the top end of stroke wear? (bore gauge or telescoping ID gauge/micrometers)

How do those numbers match allowable tolerances?

 

B

 

Okey dokey

I don't feel a slope or taper to the cylinder. I don't feel a ridge at the top of the cylinder and I can still (barley) see the hone marks from a previous hone crossing at about 45 degrees.

 

Can I get a bore gauge at harbor freight or is that something I would need to get on amazon or other? Are allowable tolerances available in the FSM I didn't think to look?

 

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So far, so good. Fingers can pick up even slight steps or rises.

I recall a few people talking about nissan cylinders, that all still had hone marks which could mean a few things, the cylinder walls are extremely hard and/or the honing was deep/ the rings didn't seat much.

 

I haven't seen a bore gauge at Harbor Freight, but I haven't looked either. Looks like they do have telescoping gauges though, but I can't vouch for quality and you'd still need calipers at least, if not micrometers. http://www.harborfreight.com/6-piece-telescoping-gauge-set-5649.html

I have a set of telescoping gauges and calipers, and a mill (with broken X axis) as well. If you want to buy a cylinder hone and come by, we can measure, chuck it up and hone away.

I'll look for the cylinder specs tomorrow regardless.

 

B

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Always recommend honing with new rings. It is like putting on a pad set without resurfacing the rotors. It can be done but I do not recommend it. If you see the honing marks in the cylinder that is a good sign. If the cylinder walls look like a mirror and/or are blue the engine was running hot.

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While there's a lot to be said for doing everything the motor could possibly need while it's out, if it doesn't burn oil and the bores still look good, I'd say don't worry about it. I don't remember reading about people having ring/cylinder issues with VGs unless they were run without oil, left full of water, extremely high mileage, or otherwise beat to death.

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Always hone with new rings. Do you really want to risk having to pull the whole thing apart again if u find failing compression some time after install? Sounds like B has a seriously good offer on the table. I would take him up on that one if i were you. The man knows what he is talking about with this stuff!

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In all honesty, since it overheated and you didn't get compression readings, I'd re-ring it before assembly, but I have no idea what new rings cost...

 

So, all the service data is on pages EM-46/47 (1999.0 FSM). It basically says 91.5-91.53mm is 'standard' diameter with a .2mm wear limit and .015mm max deviation in taper and out of round. I'd need to scare up some 3-4" mics to measure that, but I have plenty of machinist friends. Much to my embarassment, I have never gotten my own 0-6" set...

 

B

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How hot is hot enough? The rings in these are stainless steel aren't they? I did run it for about a month after it overheated before I started having trouble. A machinist in town said that if the carbon ring at the top of the cylinder is still intact than it probably doesn't need rings. Any thoughts or rebuttals to that?

 

Edited by ejin4499
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The first or top ring is the compression ring then the oil rings. Once the metal looses its tensile qualities from being hot it will not seat properly. I rebuilt L and NAPZ motors all the time and used a portable boring machine so I could do it in the car. Once the compression ring looses its seal then you have blow by. Which in turn like our cheap versa engines destroys the oil rings. On the 06 Altima engines Nissan uses chrome rings which did not seat properly and we use a pressure test to determine how much blow by is acceptable. Unfortunately todays engines are non serviceable so we replace them. In my opinion since you are there re ring the engine and call it a day. Once metal turns blue-hence hot spots on rotors-the metal hardens and becomes glazed. I question your machinist opinion on what is "intact". When I raced for Maxima Oil we would re ring the engine every time.

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