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Air Lift 1000 leveling air bags


Precise1
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  • 1 month later...

Resurrecting this thread a little...

 

So I'm consider the Air Lift 1000, too. For anyone who's using it, did you also remove the sway bar? Or if it was already removed, did the kit restore any anti-sway characteristics? If so, then I can abandon the sway bar disconnects project and pull the bar.

 

Linkinpark suggested that kit 60810 (for 2005+ Pathfinders) is 3" taller. I'm confirming that with Air Lift.

 

Also, if you run an above-the-spring spacer like me, then the chassis area where the air bag would make contact with is a little guarded by the spacer. I'll be repurposing my bumpstop extenders to bring that contact surface down by removing the bumpstop and putting a steel disc on the extender. Of course, I still need air bags to help offset the OMEs. Since my truck sits almost level now (slight rake), hopefully the 60810 is the answer. This should allow me to run at my current stance (which I like) with low PSI, a little more rake with medium PSI, and load-handling rake with high PSI.

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I have the airlift 1000 but didn't install it yet due to the WJ springs I have in the rear now.

I don't see how it would replace the sway bar characteristics. If anything it might make it worse as the spring will always be taller and thus allowing more sideways sway. Even at high PSI they are still flexible material.

But your plan sounds good to maintain your height.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Sway is also a load on a spring, not terribly different than load in the cargo area. A sway bar attempts to pull down the chassis on the inside of a turn; a stiffer spring (like what's created by the air bag) attempts to push up the chassis on the outside of a turn. The sway bar is probably more effective in this scenario, but at some point, stiffer springs will naturally resist roll.

 

Plus, anti-sway is a selling perk on the AL website. But I doubt they'd advocate removing the sway bar. With stiffer springs, it's probably different, especially since a few guys without the kit but with springs have said they don't really notice a difference. If that's the case, not sure it could worsen that setup. You know me, though...I'll find out soon enough! :crossedwires:

 

 

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I still have my sway bar on but with the new OME springs havent come close to compressing to a point where i can use the bags. With the trailer on the hitch the springs compress to just above the airbags. I assume when its fully loaded I'll air them up to bring the rear back to level.

 

As for the spacer, AirLift has you cut the old foam stops flush with the metal housing they sit in which works fine provided you dont have the above spring type spacer. I used 1" of fluery's rear spacers on the bottom end of my springs with the air bags with no issues.

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I still have my sway bar on but with the new OME springs havent come close to compressing to a point where i can use the bags. With the trailer on the hitch the springs compress to just above the airbags. I assume when its fully loaded I'll air them up to bring the rear back to level.

 

As for the spacer, AirLift has you cut the old foam stops flush with the metal housing they sit in which works fine provided you dont have the above spring type spacer. I used 1" of fluery's rear spacers on the bottom end of my springs with the air bags with no issues.

 

That's my concern: the kit alone isn't designed for vehicles with lift. It'll help with sagging, but only after most of the lift is consumed by load...which could be a good amount with the OMEs.

 

The instructions AL gives are kind of strange, but they only instruct cutting the bumpstop on Toyota Sequoias as far as I can tell. You can just remove them instead of cutting them, as Precise1 mentioned. Plus, I just replaced them in Dec. and they were nearly $50/ea...not cutting those.

 

My solution for the above-the-spring is pretty simple...my bumpstop extensions are just 2"H x 3"Dia body lift blocks and longer bolts. I'll keep the block in place, but replace the OE bumpstop with the 4" dia. steel disc. That way the air bag won't be inside the spacer.

 

But I'll still need/want a taller bag to help the OMEs.

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That's my concern: the kit alone isn't designed for vehicles with lift. It'll help with sagging, but only after most of the lift is consumed by load...which could be a good amount with the OMEs.

 

The instructions AL gives are kind of strange, but they only instruct cutting the bumpstop on Toyota Sequoias as far as I can tell. You can just remove them instead of cutting them, as Precise1 mentioned. Plus, I just replaced them in Dec. and they were nearly $50/ea...not cutting those.

 

My solution for the above-the-spring is pretty simple...my bumpstop extensions are just 2"H x 3"Dia body lift blocks and longer bolts. I'll keep the block in place, but replace the OE bumpstop with the 4" dia. steel disc. That way the air bag won't be inside the spacer.

 

But I'll still need/want a taller bag to help the OMEs.

 

I would definitely be worried about running without cutting the old foam stop or replacing it with something of substantial surface area. If someone was to just remove the foam stop and use the bags there is nothing supporting the bag on the upper end except for the 1/16" metal lip of the retaining cup for the old stop. I can only assume that would not fair well under any kind of load or pressure

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I think we're talking about the same thing, right?

 

1102_0.jpg

 

So if you cut the rubber off this, you're left with a metal backing disc. And that's a lot of work.

 

The area where this mounts on the chassis is extremely reinforced--it's the same area as the upper spring perch. The area bears the load of the vehicle, plus any shock force from the axle travelling into the bumpstop. You can see the spring perch and the multiple metal welded pieces that comprise the area by looking over the rear tires. I just need to translate that area down the height of my spacer; that's where the body lift spacer and 1/8" steel disc come in.

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ah, I see now. You are talking about removing the housing that holds the foam stop as well. Didn't know that was bolt on. I was thinking that the recommended action was to remove the foam but leave the housing, allowing only the lip of the housing as a point of contact for the air bag.

 

I cut the foam on mine, so the housing and foam are flush, giving a large flat surface for the bag to push against. If I was to remove the whole unit there would be SUBSTANTIAL room before the bag made contact, and which point I would be worried I was overloaded as these OME's are pretty beefy

Edited by TowndawgR50
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I've been emailing with AirLift about suitable options for lifted R50s. One thing they've pointed out to me is that there should be a gap between the upper perch and air bag...

 

 

The diameter is the key here [...]. These work by expanding into the gaps of the coil not the ends touching.

 

The bags in the kits are 4.9" diameter and 6" (60742) and 9" (60810). They said kit 60819 has the same 6" bags, but includes spacers (height not provided...I don't think they're more than 0.25" insulators). However, that kit is for a Ford Edge/Lincoln MKX and appears to be more expensive.

 

I measured 7.5" available space between perch and extended bump stop mount on my setup. They still recommended the normal 60742 kit. They also reiterated that the bags should be inflated to 35psi before loading up the vehicle, then adjust the pressure down as needed.

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Probably wouldn't do any harm.

 

I just have a mental problem with it because it's a much smaller contact area. And if the cut isn't level, then contact pressure also increases. A cut bump stop wouldn't be sharp or rigid enough to rupture the bag I'm sure, but possibly enough to cause undue wear.

 

I'm sure I'm overthinking it (as I tend to do). I don't know enough about the air bags to know how well they'd respond to that, but I'd be certain that a larger flat surface would be better in the long run.

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/\ I do agree with this. Even if the bags are designed to work by conforming to the inside of the coils (the ones I installed were a fairly tight fit so it makes sense), you still don't want to give them a lot of room to slip, just in case. Especially if you run low pressure... My friend runs virtually no pressure normally, and only adds about 10lbs when he has his 250lb dirt bike cantilevered about 2' past the hitch receiver, and that is more than enough.

 

I've been emailing with AirLift about suitable options for lifted R50s. One thing they've pointed out to me is that there should be a gap between the upper perch and air bag...

 

 

The bags in the kits are 4.9" diameter and 6" (60742) and 9" (60810). They said kit 60819 has the same 6" bags, but includes spacers (height not provided...I don't think they're more than 0.25" insulators). However, that kit is for a Ford Edge/Lincoln MKX and appears to be more expensive.

 

I measured 7.5" available space between perch and extended bump stop mount on my setup. They still recommended the normal 60742 kit. They also reiterated that the bags should be inflated to 35psi before loading up the vehicle, then adjust the pressure down as needed.

 

How much room between perches without the bump stops? That is what I would work off of, and just make a plastic insert with the proper diameter to leave 1/2" clearance for inflation, settling, etc. Just need to drill, counter bore enough for a socket head cap screw/washer to mount them, and you are golden. It'll work perfectly for road/carrying/towing, but you'd need to vent them to get articulation. Can't have everything... :shrug:

 

B

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Yeah, the gap is a little more than I'd like; but I'm going to see how well AirLift's suggestion works. The thicker plastic (Tap Plastics sells some thicker ABS and HDPE sheets that I've used before) and a socket bolt was actually the direction I was going to go; funny you mention it.

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I installed my kit about a month ago thinking it was ny Springs. I got the 1/2" spacers and new Moog coil springs. I keep them at 10psi since I really don't tow much. Great set up no complaints. Down the road I might get the automatic system

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  • 2 weeks later...

Got a set installed on duke90's truck over the weekend.

 

IMG_3714.jpg

 

You can sorta see where the OE bumpstop was removed and replaced with a 2"H x 3"W body spacer puck and 1/8" steel disc. Sorry I didn't get any close-ups of the disc, but it's got a flat head socket bolt that recesses into a countersink to produce a flat surface. If I end up going this route, I'll get some pics that.

 

IMG_3715.jpg

 

We noticed that the bags had a tendency to lift about an inch after riding at 5psi. I left enough slack in the lines just in case this happened. I suppose more air would prevent this?

 

We ended up plumbing them into a single valve, located in the front of the driver's side rear wheel well. No chance of a tire hitting it, easily within reach. Lines were routed up the control arm. I'll try to get a pic of the location.

 

 

Edited by hawairish
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  • 3 years later...
On 8/19/2015 at 8:45 PM, hawairish said:

Got a set installed on duke90's truck over the weekend.

 

IMG_3714.jpg

 

You can sorta see where the OE bumpstop was removed and replaced with a 2"H x 3"W body spacer puck and 1/8" steel disc. Sorry I didn't get any close-ups of the disc, but it's got a flat head socket bolt that recesses into a countersink to produce a flat surface. If I end up going this route, I'll get some pics that.

 

IMG_3715.jpg

 

We noticed that the bags had a tendency to lift about an inch after riding at 5psi. I left enough slack in the lines just in case this happened. I suppose more air would prevent this?

 

We ended up plumbing them into a single valve, located in the front of the driver's side rear wheel well. No chance of a tire hitting it, easily within reach. Lines were routed up the control arm. I'll try to get a pic of the location.

 

 

Hey @hawairish, sorry to dig up an old post, but this is the only example of a spring/spacer/air lift I’ve seen on the internet. I recently made some spacers like what you have pictured here to replace the bump stops to compensate for my coil spacers, but the bags sit right up against the bump spacer. It’s my understanding that air lift recommends a 1/2” gap but mine is basically riding on the new bumps all the time. Was there a gap between these when everything got reassembled? 

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10 hours ago, threetoedsloth said:

Hey @hawairish, sorry to dig up an old post, but this is the only example of a spring/spacer/air lift I’ve seen on the internet. I recently made some spacers like what you have pictured here to replace the bump stops to compensate for my coil spacers, but the bags sit right up against the bump spacer. It’s my understanding that air lift recommends a 1/2” gap but mine is basically riding on the new bumps all the time. Was there a gap between these when everything got reassembled? 

 

And we just changed out the springs on that truck the other month...  I didn't take a look at the gap to see if there was change over the years, but I'd be pretty sure we were able to get a gap when they were installed.  @Jax99 do you recall anything the other month...aside from the fact that we forgot to put them back in (lol)?

 

With the coil spacers at the bottom, it's hard to tell what gap exists between the bag and lower spring perch.  You might consider flipping the coil spacers to the top, as this would at least position the bag near the center of the spring, and give you an idea of what upper and lower gaps exist.  As it sits right now, the lower portion of the bag might be expanding into the tighter wraps of the pigtail area of the spring or further into the coil spacers, which might cause unequal expansion and ballooning towards the top of the bag.  Otherwise, if the lower gap seems adequate, perhaps removal of the bumpstop extension would be fine...but to ensure we're apples-to-apples here, are those OME or OE springs?

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They’re new OE springs, so basically worthless. Haha... I wish I’d bought some heavier ones. I’ll probably end up pulling the spacers out and measuring my gap, then shaving down my spacers if needed. The bags were riding up a bit inside the coils, so I’ll probably swap those around as well.

Edited by threetoedsloth
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6 hours ago, threetoedsloth said:

They’re new OE springs, so basically worthless. Haha... I wish I’d bought some heavier ones. I’ll probably end up pulling the spacers out and measuring my gap, then shaving down my spacers if needed. The bags were riding up a bit inside the coils, so I’ll probably swap those around as well.

 

Not sure where I've posted it, but my recommendation for bumpstop extension is somewhere around half of whatever lift or tire amount size change being made.  For example, if you went from a 29" stock tire to a 31" tire, a 1" extension would be suitable because your new tire will be able to reach 1" higher than before.  It's a little different when factoring in lift, particularly if you changed to longer shocks, which would have longer compression amounts.  You'd need enough extension to reduce/prevent the shock from bottoming out.  If the goal is more articulation, the extensions can be omitted, but it'll likely just lead to unnecessary rubbing.

 

Since you're using OE springs and likely OE shocks, you may only need to base the extension length on any tire size increase you've done.  But, in your case, a 1" or no extension would be fine I think.

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16 hours ago, threetoedsloth said:

They’re new OE springs, so basically worthless. Haha... I wish I’d bought some heavier ones. I’ll probably end up pulling the spacers out and measuring my gap, then shaving down my spacers if needed. The bags were riding up a bit inside the coils, so I’ll probably swap those around as well.

sorry for the late response even though Im sure Hawaiirish's clarity will be much clearer than mine. On first glance I was confused on the picture until I realized your spacers were on the bottom rather than top position. Also sorry for the lack of vocab on my part but Im assuming OE springs are Old man Emu springs? or Original Equipment. If you're running O/emu springs as I initially did then placing the spacer on top gave roughly 2 inches of breathing room or slightly more for the bags. I never really had a spacing issue, they kinda just fit in perfectly and stayed put. Ive always had much more than a half inch space between the bottom and top of the of the coil and spacer.

 

Your coils seem shorter than even my emu springs so assuming you're riding with oem coils..... you should get a heavier upgrade. The point of aid the airlift will give can't over shadow the slack the oem coils will have when carrying a heavy load off roading or trailering. The negative of getting the larger O/emu coils would be new shocks to accommodate the given lift if you kept the spacer as well. I guess to answer your question more simply though... no Ive never had spacing issues during or post instal between either my Oldman emu coils or my LR coils. In both instances I placed them towards the center point of the coil and they stayed put throughout. Id see some scraping marks from standard compression/decompression of the coil but the bag always stayed in place for me

 

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Hey, thanks for the replies, guys! I think I assumed because I was running the spacers I’d need that 2” puck for the bags to bump on but turns out I don’t. I pulled them out yesterday and I’ve got almost exactly 1/2” of space above my bags. I’ll probably swap the spacers around when i get a chance but for now this appears to be working just fine. These OEM-weight coils are just a joke, I see heavier ones in my future when I get some more dough to drop on them.

Edited by threetoedsloth
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