TahoeRunner Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 (edited) Haven't been posting much, but keeping up with the forum reading everything... but thought you guys might like this. So after all this time, I finally got to stretch the ole' mountain goat's legs. Our old off-roading group from a few years ago, finally got back together along with some new people and we headed up the Hunter lake trail just west of Reno that is about 30 miles long and heads straight up into the mountains and drops you back down in Verdi, close to the Cali border. It was quite the day... It used to take about 3 hours if you didn't really stop, however the trail has gotten a lot more challenging with continued washout and traffic, and a couple of trucks were taken down by the trail, so we started at 10:30 am and didn't finish till 7:00 that night. I've only taken Sarge on the occasional dirt road since I bought him and have been itching to see what it can do. All I have to say is I'm super impressed. We had a 2004 Jeep Grand Cherokee (stock), 2 - 2000-ish Jeep Wranglers moderately modified, a 2004 Colorado (super lifted and outfitted) and then my bone stock 1995 Pathy XE. I've only off roaded in pick-ups before, so this was my first with an SUV with coil-spring rear suspension, and it was awesome. and usually the limited slips are kind of hokey, but it worked surprisingly well. The short wheelbase was awesome. There were some ravines we drove up, and we did some moderate rock crawling that I had to make a couple of attempts to get over. I think I only rapped the rear diff on a rock once when I hit it on the rebound, but other than that Sarge did so well. It kept up with the good Jeep Wrangler every where he went, and everybody was so impressed by how flawlessly it handled the trail. It was so easy to drive through the boulder tops with 4 lo that I was allowed to really stay off the clutch pedal. I think I fell in love with the pathfinder all over again! We lost a jeep wrangler that wouldn't stay in 4-lo and with a 4 cyl, didn't have enough cajones to charge up the steep stuff without 4-lo, and the Colorado snapped a rear axle shaft half way up the mountain which delayed us by and hour and a half as we helped him back down to a clearing which stopping every few hundred feet to jack the truck up and push the wheel and axle back in! He had to leave his truck up there! My favorite part, was getting to take the whole family along and they had a blast. My oldest, Asher (in the last pic with me) was just loving it the whole time, especially when we got up on three wheels scrambling up one of the ravines (of course my wife was taking pictures and freaked out!) My boys are getting older (my youngest is 18 months) so we will be doing this more often. So now I've got the itch... my first move is to get slightly bigger wheels and tires. I can't see myself needing to do that much to it, given that it wheels so good stock. Money and time are limited... so we'll see. Enjoy the pictures! Edited October 7, 2013 by TahoeRunner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushnut Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 way to go brother! looks like a great family adventure. I know the feeling,every time I head off road I come away impressed with what my truck can do. A small lift, bigger feet and some after market skid plates and you'll be set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 Glad you got out, and good picts, thanks for sharing! If you want to improve your trucks capability without spending a lot of $, I would recommend a few simple things. Rims and tires (whatever you can find a good deal on, used, locally, etc. preferably 31" assuming you have 235/17/15) Poor Mans Suspension Lift ($50-100 depending on route) Idler arm brace ($30ish) Slider plate to minimize centerlink twist (threads about it here, $20) Rear sway bar disconnect (custom) So $200+rims and tires (keep yours for daily driving/towing) and you will gain 1" static clearance, 2" suspension lift and greater articulation in the rear. Best of all, it will still look bone stock... B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fman Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 looks like an awesome pathy and some lovely country very impressed with both. my old girl got defected and is off the road permanently now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TahoeRunner Posted October 8, 2013 Author Share Posted October 8, 2013 yeah, we really enjoyed doing it as a family. Even our youngest had a blast... when I had to take a couple of attempts to get over a rock formation, everytime I had to abandon and retry, Ezra was squealing "UH-OH" from the back and they would both start giggling! I'm thinking just some 31's. I looked up the tires I have and they are only 28.9" diameter. So going to some 31's would give me an inch higher off the ground right there. My main goal is to just start playing with it, and outfitting it as best we can to be our outdoor adventure vehicle. I really need to get a rack and hitch for it first. Nice thing is I don't drive it daily so I can take my time. I may have the wheels, tire carrier and bumpers all powder coated or something to freshen them up since the rest of the truck is in such good shape. Precise, care to elaborate on the "poor mans lift"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamzan Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 (edited) The poor man's lift is jeep grand Cherokee coils in the rear, and cranking the torsion bars in the front. You can crank them up to a point without needing new control arms. The coils you can get at a junkyard or just buy new ones if you can't find any. A good set of 31" AT tires will probably be your best addition. I recommend the BFGoodrich all terrain. Edited October 8, 2013 by adamzan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverton Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 Since you have 235/75's you're going to get 31x10.50's... and then you're going to wonder just how well 33x10.50's do.. I recommend skipping the lift and going with 33x10.50 from the get-go for that extra inch of lift without putting all the extra strain on the front half shafts, and to keep your ride nice and squishy. But definitely get the idler arm brace, and I've never heard of the slider thing to keep the center link from twisting, I'm going to have to look in to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 Thanks for the explanation Adam. TR, there is a thread pinned somewhere on it and I believe it covers all the junkyard spring options as well. Let me know if you can't find it... Silverton, he plans to do some towing and 33" tires will put more strain on his steering components than 1-2" suspension lift will put on his CVs, which is why I recommended 31". With the same t-bars and JGC springs which are longer, not really much stiffer, the ride is not affected much at all... I can't recall where the thread is about the slider, but I'm pretty sure it was an Aussie or NZ who did it. Let me know if you can't find it. B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverton Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 Silverton, he plans to do some towing and 33" tires will put more strain on his steering components than 1-2" suspension lift will put on his CVs, which is why I recommended 31". With the same t-bars and JGC springs which are longer, not really much stiffer, the ride is not affected much at all... I can't recall where the thread is about the slider, but I'm pretty sure it was an Aussie or NZ who did it. Let me know if you can't find it. B Yeah, towing might be a bit tough as 33x10.50's are pretty heavy, though I did do it with a 30' travel trailer, not much of an issue, even going up a steep hill for about 5 miles. I just remember all the headaches I had when I lifted my first Pathfinder with A/C uppers, and then Rancho's, and still was never able to get it aligned properly, along with bolts coming out while wheeling, even after getting longer ones and making sure they were torqued properly. Maybe it was just that truck? At any rate, after all that drama, I'm never suspension lifting another Pathfinder, and certainly won't recommend it, even knowing hundreds upon hundreds have been issue free. If you could link me, that would be great! I've been having trouble navigating this site as I don't venture far from the 90-95 Pathfinder and NW sections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TahoeRunner Posted October 8, 2013 Author Share Posted October 8, 2013 Wow I didn't realize it was just throwing in the JGC springs (which I was planning to do anyway from some recommending that to make towing a little less "squatty" in the rear and cranking the torsion bars. honestly doing that and throwing on some 31's though sounds like that would be perfect and cheap at least for the next few years. I just found a guy locally selling the frontier/xterra Nismo 16" wheels in good shape. Does anybody run those on the wd21? I'd like to see how that looks. I looked and they have 265/75r16's which are just a hair under 32" in diam. Would it be better to step down to a 70 series sidewall to get closer to 31's or would it run that okay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyC Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 You'll have to check the back spacing on that wheel. I'm running xterra wheels and they have 5in bs, not ideal at all on a wd21. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Exactly, the rim width and back spacing needs to be known to make a call/comparison. Something like 7-8" rim width with 3-4" back spacing should be appropriate for a general guide line. Yes, the lift (done reasonably) is that easy. I wouldn't steer you wrong... Yeah, towing might be a bit tough as 33x10.50's are pretty heavy, though I did do it with a 30' travel trailer, not much of an issue, even going up a steep hill for about 5 miles. I just remember all the headaches I had when I lifted my first Pathfinder with A/C uppers, and then Rancho's, and still was never able to get it aligned properly, along with bolts coming out while wheeling, even after getting longer ones and making sure they were torqued properly. Maybe it was just that truck? At any rate, after all that drama, I'm never suspension lifting another Pathfinder, and certainly won't recommend it, even knowing hundreds upon hundreds have been issue free. If you could link me, that would be great! I've been having trouble navigating this site as I don't venture far from the 90-95 Pathfinder and NW sections. Yeah, you had bad experiences, but while the front ends aren't ideal by any means, many people get them to work. I didn't recommend him changing components though, just raising it up a bit with the stock parts. Plenty of people have done so with reasonable part life unless they were being too aggressive or unlucky. Chalk up the previous experience to the PO and try again... I didn't find the link yet. Try searching yourself and I will try again tomorrow. B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TahoeRunner Posted October 9, 2013 Author Share Posted October 9, 2013 Exactly, the rim width and back spacing needs to be known to make a call/comparison. Something like 7-8" rim width with 3-4" back spacing should be appropriate for a general guide line. So you say 3-4" back spacing... how does that translate to the offset. I found these http://reno.craigslist.org/pts/4116838420.html They are -30 offset... but not sure what that means? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Offset is the deviation of the mounting surface from centerline of the rim and backspacing is the distance from the mounting surface to the back of the rim. This chart should explain... B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TahoeRunner Posted October 9, 2013 Author Share Posted October 9, 2013 So am I understanding it correctly as a - offset pushes the mounting point of the wheel, to the back of the wheel, therefore making it stick out farther, or do I have that backwards? So for those frontier wheels, they are 7" wide = 177.8 mm. So if they are a -30 mm = -30 + 177.8/2 + 12.7 mm = 71.6 mm = 2.8" backspace? but 2.8" is left of the numbers at the top of the chart... am I doing that right? what's that mean, it won't fit? is the goal to be 0 or slightly negative backspacing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamzan Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Just watch out how high you raise the front end. Without the proper control arms it is hard to get the camber in spec. You wind up with your front tires like this \ / if you look at the truck from the front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TahoeRunner Posted October 11, 2013 Author Share Posted October 11, 2013 Okay so I think I figured it out... I looked up those frontier wheels again and they actually have a +30mm offset, which doing the math = a 5.18" backspace, which would tuck the wheels way in right? What offset and width are the lego wheels? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 Correct. Following the chart, +32mm offset would give you 5.25" backspacing on a 7" rim. 7" wide but I have no idea about the offset, I've never owned any. So am I understanding it correctly as a - offset pushes the mounting point of the wheel, to the back of the wheel, therefore making it stick out farther, or do I have that backwards? So for those frontier wheels, they are 7" wide = 177.8 mm. So if they are a -30 mm = -30 + 177.8/2 + 12.7 mm = 71.6 mm = 2.8" backspace? but 2.8" is left of the numbers at the top of the chart... am I doing that right? what's that mean, it won't fit? is the goal to be 0 or slightly negative backspacing? From what I understand, that is a chicken and egg debate which is why I prefer using backspacing methodology. Hard to get that wrong... You are mixing up your offset and backspacing nomenclature, it is impossible to have negative backspacing. B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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