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Towing Questions or maybe Replace the Pathy?


TahoeRunner
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Hi everyone. Its been a while, but not much to report these days. My Pathy barely gets driven so not much to talk about! I filled it up for the first time in 3 months because we finally drove it up to Lake Tahoe so I've got that going for me!

 

One thing I was hoping to do was tow with it for the first time last week. We are considering buying a really nice 1995 jayco tent trailer off some friends of ours. Last weekend they lets us borrow it to go camping to see how we liked it and I intended to tow with Sarge to see how he did, but time constraints kept me from purchasing a tow hitch and installing it in time, so I borrowed my work truck to pull it (2013 Silverado 1500 with the 5.3).

 

I know a few of you have towed various things and it seems like Sarge should be able to tow 2500ish low profile pounds okay? We have lots of hills around here obviously so not sure what to do. It's geared so low and is already so slow, that I can't imagine it getting much slower towing that weight around.

 

I've been looking at possibly replacing it with either a 2005+ Xterra or 01-02 Pathfinder, but I really don't want to spend more money on something that rarely gets driven and my Pathy is in such dang good shape! Now that my youngest is 1 though, I expect to weekend warrior more often and hit the slopes with my older son. The other benefit to selling and buying something newer is getting something more comfy, safer (airbags and ABS for one!) and has cupholders! LOL I guess If I decide to sell, I'll let you guys know first :happy: We've been toying around with this for a while and not sure what to do.

 

Am I crazy or should Sarge be able to pull a tent trailer just fine?

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I tow the work trailer a lot with my 99.0. The work trailer weighs 1620lbs. Tows fine, obviously slower on take offs, longer stopping distance. I get 16mpg with or with out it. But, the max speed it tows it comfortably is 60-65. Could do 70, but mileage really drops and the transmission starts to struggle on hills. Good thing for the monster cooler I have for it.

If that trailer weighs 2500lbs. You will notice it. Both in sag in the rear if its not balanced for proper tongue weight, and start/stop power.

 

You could invest the ~250 to put on a hitch. Then do a test run, or tow it someplace close to get a feel. See how it feels to you. If you do go another Pathfinder. I would highly recommend one that has the 3.5 in it over the 3.3.

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An auxiliary transmission cooler and in-line filter are also very good ideas if you will be towing regularly. Even then, on a WD21 you should have both of these already with their relatively fragile transmissions and insufficient stock cooler.

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I'm assuming the recommendations for the cooler are for the auto, correct? Mine is a 5 speed... probably should have mentioned that. Its running redline MT-90 and is overfilled by the way.

 

yeah if I upgrade, I thought about maybe an 02-04 xterra with a manual or a 99-2000 pathfinder to minimize cash outlay but at least get something a little more modern and safer, but its probably not even worth the swap as I don't think I'd be gaining much on the towing front. The benefit with going with the 05+ Xterra is that I have a 5k lb tow capacity no matter which tranny (as opposed to the 01-02 pathy with the 3.5 and 5spd) and all the modern comforts, but alas I spend the most money. Whatever we upgrade to if we choose that route, it will be Nissan and a manual transmission... good thing they have a lot to choose from!

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Yes, my recommendations were for the auto transmission. You're running a great fluid and have overfilled the transmission, so you're good to go there. Change the differential(s) and transfer case fluid if they haven't been changed in the past two years, and grease the driveshaft more regularly if towing.

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I tow the work trailer a lot with my 99.0. The work trailer weighs 1620lbs. Tows fine, obviously slower on take offs, longer stopping distance. I get 16mpg with or with out it. But, the max speed it tows it comfortably is 60-65. Could do 70, but mileage really drops and the transmission starts to struggle on hills. Good thing for the monster cooler I have for it.

If that trailer weighs 2500lbs. You will notice it. Both in sag in the rear if its not balanced for proper tongue weight, and start/stop power.

 

You could invest the ~250 to put on a hitch. Then do a test run, or tow it someplace close to get a feel. See how it feels to you. If you do go another Pathfinder. I would highly recommend one that has the 3.5 in it over the 3.3.

Remember, he has a VG30I that was rated at 154HP new, not a VG33 or VQ35 and obviously those would be better choices.

 

To address the OP, yes, your pathy can handle it but won't be spry or get good mileage. There are a few intake/exhaust changes you could do to help but not too much. I understand you are in hill country and how that affects things but realistically, how often and far are you going to tow the trailer? Why not stick with what you have/know/paid for and just not be in a rush when in transit?

I suggest you get the trailer as you seem to want it, then set up Sarge to tow it and try a few times so see what you think. If it works, great! If not, I'll buy the POS for a reasonable price, all things considered... ;)

 

B

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Sure you can do it. If you want to keep using your pathy for it, I echo what everyone said.

 

Good hitch, transmission cooler, trans filter and bigger brakes, or slotted rotors could help.

 

 

Try it, see if you like it. If you don't get a different rig.

Edited by 92Path_68CJ
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I've only pulled a fiberglass boat (have no idea what a '66 Chrysler boat .. yes, Chrysler boat weighs) and my '77 Jeep CJ5. The boat was heavy on the old saggy suspension but, it pulled pretty effortless. The Heep has zero tongue weight as the front wheels support the vehicles weight. However, it is noticeably heavier than the boat was on acceleration and braking.

 

Curious, how much more power does the VG33E have over the VG30E? Would it really make that much difference when it comes to pulling a trailer?

Edited by devonianwalk
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Forgot to mention I towed my Jeep with my Pathy once (About 3,000 pounds, give or take 300).

 

Stopping with stock brakes took a while, same with acceleration, but I was able to maintain 50-55 on flat ground. Didn't encounter hills.

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I've towed 2,800lbs with my '88. It handled it decently considering the lack of power and stopping wasn't a real big issue, although I didn't have to do any serious emergency braking and being a manual gearing down helped. I would suggest some stiffer F100 or longer Jeep springs, if yours are sagging like mine were it tended to like the bump stops.

 

The '05+ Xterras have a well know issue with the radiator cracking and mixing coolant with the ATF. So if you did get one, be sure to bypass it with a fatty cooler!

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Vg30i is rated 138 HP and 167 lb ft,

Vg30e pre-W series is rated 153 HP and 182 ft lbs

Vg30e post-W series is rated 158 HP and 182 ft lbs

Vg33e up to 2002 is rated 170 HP and 202 ft lbs

Vg33e after 2002 is rated 180 HP and 202 ft lbs

 

I swapped out the 3.0 for the 170 HP versions of the 3.3 in both our trucks and noticed a huge increase in 'useable' power. Way more low end torque and sooner in the power band. I believe peak torque is made at 3600 in the vg30e and 2800 in the vg33e. In my opinion, if you tow, vg33e swap is your best friend!

Edited by Nefarious
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I tow with my 5sp wd21 all the time! I do worry about being too hard on the tranny. My utility trailer weighs about 600lbs empty, and it's never empty! I live/play/work at 7000ft with lots of hills. Your truck will pull more than it should, just not too fast! If you can be patient in traffic you'll be just fine. If not sell me your rig and get something bigger! Best of luck!!

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I would not recommend it. I had a jayco baja with the large platform. The pathfinder would tow it fine until I got into the mountains, then it was a slug. Being you live in Reno area I would say don't do it. Remember weights listed are usually not wet.

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The '05+ Xterras have a well know issue with the radiator cracking and mixing coolant with the ATF. So if you did get one, be sure to bypass it with a fatty cooler!

The 05+ Pathfinders and Frontiers also can experience the same issue. Nissan issued a radiator warranty extension up to 8-years 80k miles (full coverage), but that went in effect just recently (October 2012-ish) and it's too little, too late. It is ridiculous.

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In my opinion, if you tow, vg33e swap is your best friend!

As much as I like my WD21, doing a motor swap to occasionally pull a tent trailer sounds ludicrous.

 

My ex had a 97 Pathfinder, towed a small tent trailer out to our local lake once, just a few small hills. I couldnt imagine going up and down the stuff in your neck of the woods.

 

I vote buy used/new/different tow vehicle.

 

If you stick with Nissan, I'd aim for something with a VQ35.

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Yeah, I love my pathy, but it just doesn't seem to make much sense to do a VG33e swap when I could just sell it and buy a nice lower mile late 90's pathfinder with a nicer interior and quieter smoother ride... I used to own an 03 Frontier with that motor back in my single days, and from what I remember it was stout but not quick either. although I towed my Dad's 4k lb boat and trailer regularly in the flats with no issue.

 

I guess the alarming thing is that when I parked the trailer in the driveway and the Pathy in front of it, the trailer looked like it dwarfed it! I forget how small the pathfinder is on the outside sometimes! the tent trailer is the larger floor plan jayco though. LOL I think I might be more worried about the trailer driving the truck. and the rear end sags a little but I don't know what it would do with a load yet. If most of our camping was local, it would probably be no worries, but you are driving at least an hour to get to some cool places and many of the places we want to explore are 2+ hours away, via hills.

 

I think I'll have to try it out. I know it will be slow, i'm never in a hurry when I drive sarge anyways. If we take it to the lake, I spend most the time climbing Mt Rose in 2nd and 3rd gears so I'm used to that. And as far as gas mileage I don't expect it to be good. I usually average 19 in my work truck, but we averaged 15 towing the trailer on our trip.

 

And as far as upgrading, I'm well aware of the 05+ radiator/transmission issues, but like I said it would be manual transmission only. If I do the Xterra route though we are probably going to have to wait a year or two, so Sarge will have to work regardless! I'm just having a hard time because otherwise I love my pathy and its in such good shape, and you just hardly see them anywhere. My wife and I have a thing for rarer manual transmission cars (the anti-toyota camrys).... you think I can do a 4.0/6speed swap? Hahaha

 

Thanks for the help. So for the rear end, swapping for some GC rear springs, fixes the tongue weight, sagging issue?

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To each there own. I prefer my pathy to any of the newer stuff...simplicity > comfort. With my vg33, headers, exhaust, e fans, and suspension work my pathy can tow a lot more than stock comfortably and reliably... I have about 1000$ total in parts in my truck now and I would take it over any newer nissan truck any day. I guess I would rather save the money and do the work required to make it do what I need rather than spending a whole bunch of money for something I don't like anyways. To each their own. Vg33 swaps are so cheap and easy to do now, it just makes sense to me I guess. Hard for me to understand 'not' wanting to do another project as well. I mean, we all need more projects.....always......lol

Edited by Nefarious
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Nefarious, so the VG33e stock you gain 17hp and 16 lb-ft of torque I think. which isn't a lot, but percentage wise, I would think is noticeable. With the other upgrades you did along with the swap what do you think you are actually making power wise? did you use your same transmission, change gearing at all?

 

I would consider a swap as I love projects... only problem is that I have two very young and energetic boys (not old enough to help) and a demanding career so finding time for such a project would be pretty difficult. I may consider it though.

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Nefarious, so the VG33e stock you gain 17hp and 16 lb-ft of torque I think. which isn't a lot, but percentage wise, I would think is noticeable. With the other upgrades you did along with the swap what do you think you are actually making power wise? did you use your same transmission, change gearing at all?

You can gain more than that for free by putting stock vg30e cams in your vg33e, not too sure how much the gain is but free power is free power.

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Don't you mean putting the 33e cams in my stock 30e? I've seen you guys talking about that, how much power does that usually provide. I'd be open to just doing some exhaust and intake and then the cams on mine, just to give it some more power, especially if I could do all that for only a few hundred. Even spending up to a grand to do the 33e swap wouldn't be bad since I know the history on mine with it being one owner before me, and its always been garaged, low miles, etc. it would take a while to find something newer with that same kind of history and care.

 

If I really start towing the tent trailer though, I know I would need to beef up the rear springs, and I need to tighten up the steering by probably replacing the centerlink that seems to be fairly weak. The pathfy has had a pretty easy life, so none of that has been done to it. Anything else I should take a look at if i'm going to be towing probably once a month in the summer months?

Edited by TahoeRunner
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I'll be swapping cams as well as tuning it on my next round of upgrades. I would guess with my upgrades and pipes I am pushing around 185 horsepower and 215 lb ft. Once I swap over the vg30 cams and finish a solid ecu tune, I should see 210 hp and 225 lb ft at the very least and that's being conservative.

And the difference isn't just peak hp and peak torque. It's about the power made under the curve which is significant between the 3.0 and 3.3. That's what i meant by 'useable' power.

I am going to take my truck to a dyno after the cams and tune to maximize the output as well and I will post my sheets once im done.

I currently run 4.63 stock auto gears, auto trans, 33x12.5 duratracs on 15x10" steel wheels which weigh at least 75 lbs per wheel mounted and balance so I have a huge amount of drive train loss. Even still my truck can tow no problem andeven with the monster wheels its substantially faster than a stock great condition vg30 pathy with a manual trans (have both).

 

I hear you about time. I also raise 2 energetic young girls as well as going to electronics engineering tech school full time, working weekends and have 4 vehicles to work on as well including my ladys 93 that we just vg33 swapped! Always seem to find the time though.. where there's a will there's a way. Lol.

 

Not saying it works for everyone but I really have very little $$ in my truck, thats one thing I love about it so much! And it goes above and beyond what it did stock by a long shot.

 

Vg33 - 200$

Obx headers - 190$

Custom exhaust 2" y pipe to 2.5" pipe after the collector through a magnaflow cat and flowmaster muffler - 200$

Altima electric fans - 20$

High flow filter - 10$

Misc parts to make it all work - 200$

 

My entire power upgrades so far cost me around 800$ all said and done and that includes everything. To me that is worth making an old good truck even better.

Edited by Nefarious
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So is there not much left you can do to the VG30e? If I could get it to push 180hp with some more useable torque that would be nice.

 

Maybe it would be worth upgrading to a 96-00 pathfinder and doing all those same upgrades and not have to swap the engine in mine! LOL 210/225 would be plenty of power in the unibody pathfinder I would think and they are easier to find with the stick-shift compared to the 01-02's with the VQ. too much to consider I guess... I'm starting to wonder off topic, but is the 5speed manual/rear-end in the 96-00 R50's the same as in my 1995? Gearing wise anyways or is the R50 a little more relaxed on the freeway?

Edited by TahoeRunner
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5 speed is almost the same, just a sensor is different. Rear end is not nearly as nice in the 96-00 as they didn't come with rear disc brakes and the factory lsd is weak in the r50. Factory lsd in the wd21 is around 280 lb ft breakaway, the r50 is only around 90 lb ft iirc. They both use the h233b rear end. I believe r50 is 33 spline and wd21 is 31 spline.

Also, even though the r50 is unibody, its still heavier than the wd21 by about 150 lbs. So don't expect it to be faster :P

 

1995 pathfinder - 3930 lbs

1999 pathfinder - 4190 lbs

Edited by Nefarious
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