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Not a Pathfinder, but I'm desperate


Kittamaru
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Okay, since my Pathy needs body work before it'll pass inspection, I've been driving a 1995 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo as my DD.

 

Lately though, it's had a LOT of issues starting... but only when it's below ~ 35 degrees outside... it also restarts fine when it is warm.

 

I've replaced the Distributor Cap and Rotor at the advice of a friend who spark-tested the vehicle and found I had poor spark after the dizzy, but it was fine before. The old cap and rotor was corroded as all hell.

 

It still starts very roughly. It has to crank for a good thirty seconds to two minutes sometimes before it starts... and even then it stumbles and I have to keep the starter turning the first few seconds to ensure the engine doesn't quit.

 

My thought was possibly an issue with the thermostat that controls the open/closed loop in the ECM? Does that sound reasonable?

 

The other thing is, it smells like its running rich... and I've only been averaging about 15-16 MPG, even with a lot of highway driving.

Edited by Kittamaru
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Fix the Pathy? It's been years... :shrug:

 

Weak spark? How are the plugs and wires? Hopefully the coil isn't failing. When checking the battery, clean all contacts, terminals both positive and negative, all the way down to body/chassis contact.

 

Running rich? O2 sensor? MAF? Do 95 Jeeps have OBD systems that can be checked?

 

B

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Just a quick thought on this one.. may or may not help.. (I did a conversion and that's like 1.6 degrees C so I've come up with the following):

 

 

Firstly, is the vehicle garaged at night?

 

 

Does the vehicle have new anti-freeze/anti-boil additive in the radiator (if it's not new for this winter then change it to be sure and be sure to add enough to be happy that it's mixed correctly for a minimum of say -10 degrees C. You are better off having it ready for a much lower temperature than you are likely to get, so use the max strength based on the area and temps you experience.

 

 

How recently was your engine oil changed? Is the oil suitable for 0 C?

 

 

Why I asked if the vehicle is garaged or not as it makes a difference to whether or not the vehicle is parked outside absorbing the entire outside night temperature into the oil and water... so my suggestion, whether or not it's garaged is to try out for 3 or 4 nights to get a 40W desk lamp on an extension lead (insulate everything for safety including a short circuit cut-out), take it and put it under the vehicle (be sure to not have any way that the lead is going to be sitting in water if it rains overnight) and then point the desk lamp up at the sump.. turn it on when you park the vehicle up for the night, turn it off and remove it in the morning just before you start the engine. The bulb should be about 5 cms away from the sump at the very most. Make sure the sump is clean back to the paint - no mud and no grease etc.

 

The whole idea here is to do a couple of things. Firstly it'll keep the oil warm in the sump (because if the oil isn't rated correctly or it's old then it could be thickening up making the starting difficult!), secondly by keeping the sump oil warm the block will be warmer and so will the water in the block... so the entire engine will be several degrees warmer when you try to start - if the coolant additive isn't mixed right then the water will start to thicken up and freeze which makes starting difficult as well.

 

If the vehicle starts easier (and it has new/correctly rated oil and coolant additive) then it's one of the sensors which tells the computer that the engine block is cold and adjusts mixture to compensate and make the engine warm up by running a rich fuel mixture (same as a choke on an old car) - which explains why the vehicle stinks like it's over-fuelling as well as why your economy isn't so good - sensors are mentioned further up in this thread.

 

 

Anyway, please let me know if that little trick makes any difference for you - as I'm keen to follow up a little more.

 

Cheers,

Sim

 

 

[holy cow I make LONG posts!]

Edited by Sim
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Sorry I haven't had a chance to check back here, been busy with both jobs.

 

No, it's not garaged - we live in a townhouse complex. I know the engine oil needs changed soon, as for if it is suitable for 0C, I have no idea (I had it done at a local shop last time, I don't recall any information about what they used in it).

 

Spark seemed good up till the dizzy cap/rotor when my buddy tested it with his spark tester, and once we replaced them it was strong all the way through to the plugs.

 

Anti-Freeze Anti-boil... well, I'm ashamed to say I haven't changed this since I've owned the truck, so it's probably due for it (I've owned it for... three years now?)

 

I know the battery is on its way out soon... had it tested and IIRC they said it was holding about 80% charge even after charging it... just can't really afford to drop 150+ on a battery at the moment :(

 

Sadly I doubt I could run a lamp out to the truck... no outside plugs, plus the townhouse management might get a bit pissy with me running wires out to it. I'll see if I can test this on a day I'll have off at my Grandparents or something.

 

Fix the Pathy - I would dearly love to... poor girl needs body work to pass inspection and I just can't afford to do it... in eiher money or time. Generally I'm up at 6 ish, out the door by 7, work from 8-5, come home, change, and work from 6-9/10 ish. Come home, eat dinner, and collapse/die in bed til next morning, Monday - Friday. Saturday I work all day at one job, and sunday, if I wake up at all, I'm generally doing laundry and getting meals together for the following week. :(

 

I'm hoping to see if the local Tech School auto program is still accepting public vehicles for their kids to use as project cars...

 

As for the timing being off - I haven't got any equipment (literally, when my Grandfather passed away, my uncle took all of his tools... bastard... I don't even have a socket set or even a good set of crescent wrenches right now) but I'll see if my buddy can bring over stuff for a compression test and to check ignition timing.

 

And sadly, no, the Jeep doesn't have an OBD2 system - I can try to get the CEL to blink an error code with a key combination... but, well, I dont' currently have an ignition cylinder (the old one literally snapped and won't engage the mechanism) at the moment so I'm starting her with a screwdriver... cost of a new part at the local shop is $150 blargh. Local U-Pullits don't have any 95 Jeeps in either :(

 

As for other sensors, I haven't had a chance to check/test them. I'll look into those a bit more.

 

Thank you ya'll for giving me a place to start!

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Adamzan - the rust is a softball sized hole in the passenger compartment where the passenger side rear brace for the seat is, and the metal about basketball sized around that is thinned. Then there's the usual cancer spots in the fender areas.

 

It's sat for... three years now sadly. I reckon at this point I need new tires and an overall tune up plus more... really not sure where to start at this point. I'd love to just crank her over, but I need to get a battery, plus I read at one point that I should break the cylinders loose by hand so as not to cause damage?

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Sorry, this post sounds a bit harsh, but I've got to make a point here... leaving any engine sitting completely un-touched for 3 years is highly likely to be 'fatal' to the entire engine and it's components and it's irresponsible (so is not maintaining your daily driver), this might be an exercise in futility and might cost you more to rectify than you think, I think you may be better off putting some $$$ into the Jeep because you currently RELY on it as your daily driver. Perhaps the Pathy might be best retired or donated to someone who can afford the time/$ to fix it up - perhaps the tech school is a good idea, but you won't want it back afterwards with stripped nuts/bolts, everything worn from being taken off and put on a hundred times etc, etc.

 

 

 

Before you think about starting the Pathy (after 3 years of sitting un-started) take out the spark plugs, pop about 25-50 ml of clean oil (machine oil is light and would do the job beautifully and will burn off in the first minute of starting up the engine) in to each cylinder, then drain all the oil out of the sump and put in fresh engine oil, once this is done you can use a socket and breaker bar attached to the crank and rock the engine back and forward a couple of inches each direction, don't forget to change the oil filter when you do the oil (and because it's not been started for so long put some oil in the filter before fitting, it doesn't have to be full but some oil will help lubricate the oil pump when things start moving around - because it's guaranteed to be as dry as desert inside it's components). You CAN go and put the clean machine oil down the cylinders now even if you don't plan on starting the engine for another few months, it'll soak in to the rings and work it's way down around the pistons which may prevent further damage occuring when you do crank over the engine, if you plan on leaving the engine unstarted for another 6 months or more then make that oil standard grade engine oil, not light machine oil.. that way it'll take longer before it's run down past the rings - which'll keep everything sweeter.

 

Change the fuel filter and drain the petrol out of the tank (as it'll have seperated by now and while it may be flammable you probably don't want to run it through your engine as it'll run like a dog) and then put in fresh fuel, but before starting disconnect the fuel filter 'input' pipe (pipe from tank) and turn the key on so that the electric pump pushes out any old fuel from the pipes.

 

Drain the radiator completely, make sure the entire engine is drained of water as well, then flush it out with normal tap water from your garden hose, when the water runs completely clear out of the radiator and engine you can drain out most of it and add coolant and top back up to full. I would expect to see a bit of rust come out - I just hope that your welsch plugs are intact. Also look for signs of oil in that water (drain it into a bucket at first so you can look for oil - just as you'll need to look in the oil for signs of water, if you are going to use the same bucket wipe it out between these jobs so it doesn't cross contaminate your examination).

 

So after putting a little oil down the cylinders, changing the sump oil, the petrol filter and draining the tank and replacing the fuel, draining and refilling the radiator with coolant, you are already looking at a couple of hundred $...... though to be honest all the rubbers, seals and gaskets on everything could be shot now! Most things on an engine are designed to be kept supple by fluids in the engine and cooling system, most metals are designed to be kept moist as well - that stops them from rusting or corroding etc.

 

 

Many people who own a motor vehicle fail to maintain them properly because they say they can't afford to - the problem is can you afford NOT TO maintain your vehicle? Can you afford to get a taxi to and from work for a week because something major goes wrong because the engine coolant hasn't been changed in over 3 years? and on top of that cost for the taxi, the cost of the mechanic will make the $20-30 for a bottle of concentrated anti-freeze/anti-boil coolant, 30 minutes with a screw driver and a garden hose while the engine is cold seem like pocket change!!! Also don't forget that failing to maintain any motor vehicle puts your own life at risk - do you KNOW how worn your brakes are for instance?

 

Just remember that when you replace 1 headlight bulb you should always replace the other - odds are it's done the same amount of work and that it'll blow within days of the first one. The same goes for almost everything on a vehicle, steering, suspension, tyres, etc.

 

 

Not having time or money to maintain your vehicle is not really an excuse. If you own a motor vehicle and you rely on it you spend the money and/or make the time! Its your life that's at risk when you don't make that effort. I work 60+ hours every week driving in and out of a desert going up to 850 kms in each direction... yet I can still find an hour in a month to do preventative maintenance on my Pathy - things like checking the oil and coolant levels, checking the power steering fluid and brake fluid (brake fluid levels also tell you when your brakes are getting very worn, so it's good to get to know the usual levels), once in every few months I'll jack the Pathy up and take the wheels off and check everything is tight in the suspension and steering as well as greasing all the grease nipples and looking for wear on components that wouldn't normally wear or don't get seen often enough to notice the wear, such as brake pads. I treat my car just like I would've treated a customers car when I was an apprentice mechanic.

 

 

Anyway, it is of course completely up to you how you choose to proceed..

 

Good luck whichever way you choose to go, but don't skip out on the vehicle you rely on.

 

Sim

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