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My AC lift is all done. Sitting pretty on 33"s.


snow4me
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I know, right? I have not one problem with my camber, struts, cv axels, etc., etc.

 

I have been lurking the different points of view on my (AC + NX4) set up versus the SFD. As long as I don't have any issues I plan on keeping my current set up. tomato.gif

 

What was weird with my positive camber was it would come & go as I drove the truck! Sometimes it was way worse than others, usually after I'd done a tight turn. If I drove straight for a while it wouldn't be so bad, maybe it needed to settle but my tires wouldn't have lasted a month :laugh:

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I checked the spring hat orientation tonight, the little notches are pointing toward the engine like they are supposed to be.

It's not exactly this... They are suppose to be aligned with either the letter L or R on the top plate... did you do that ?

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It's not exactly this... They are suppose to be aligned with either the letter L or R on the top plate... did you do that ?

Well, I know the L and R are supposed to point towards the engine, correct? Mine are.

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Yea, the notch is the biggie. The letters on the top hat can be spun around until they face in. The three mounting studs are not rotatable and will only go in one way.

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It's not exactly this... They are suppose to be aligned with either the letter L or R on the top plate... did you do that ?

You can rotate the top portion in order to orientate the bolt pattern, hence the bushing/bearing, it allows you to turn it. The bearing allows the assembly to pivot with the knuckle when you turn the wheel. Notches or "V" grooves have to be aligned or "clocked " as the saying goes because the angle of the top hat is critical.

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You are on the right track "snow4me"

 

O.K. now you can eliminate the strut top to perch orientation. Remember that troubleshooting is the process of eliminating the obvious. You will get the camber issue figured out one way or another. Next will be the "top out" issue and then the CV angles, if you are having problems with these phenomenom.

This is a great thread that you started and your pathy looks awesome so stick with it.

 

With a 1" spacer on the top of the strut assembly and approximately a 2" longer spring installed you have effectively lengthen the strut assembly by 3'. Now XPLORx4, silverpathy and ferrariowner123 may chime in and dispute semantics but this has to be dealt with or brushed off'

 

These arguements are unbelievable!!

CV angles= install locking hubs.........................................still there and unlocking the hub dosen't change the angle of the CV (this one is my favorite)

Camber bolts= 2 per side and get it within specs..............fix it don't accept it (it's the 21st century, slot that top hole)

top out= it will subside over time.......................................why modify your suspension just to limit its performance

 

Good Luck

We're all pulling for you!!

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I find this issue really odd.. Has anyone actually figured out why some people cant fix the positive camber issues while others can? For example, my Pathy is a 2000 with AC and NX4 spacer and my mechanic had no problems doing an alignment with two camber bolts per side. Then there others, like Theexbrit who drives a 1996 and had the positive camber issue, and then now Snow4me's is a 2001 and has the same problem. Whats different between all these vehicles?!

I had all these issues as well and everyone else has too. Most either don't realize it or just live with it.

 

Using 2 camber bolts per side may get you within manufacturers specified range (means close) but it won't allow for any negative camber option. I would love to see alignment numbers your mechanic had no problems achieving.

Every thread that I've read has mentioned "top out", everybody just lives with it;

Everyone suggests Manual hubs to relieve stress on the CV joints and never corrects the root cause.

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I still cant get over the fact that rocky2 keeps mentioning top out, cv angles etc. We get it. Once the geometry is changed on something that wasnt meant to be changed, it will have a domino effect on other things. Everybodys pathfinder is different.

 

I am sure everybody researched lift options before making the purchase that was right for them. I commend you once again for doing what you are doing to modify and fix the top out issue, etc.

 

Why did you go with the AC lift if you knew it would have issues though? To try and fix it?

 

Dont take what i just said in a rude way, im just looking to understand why you think we try to "cover up" problems.

 

snow4me...the truck looks great lifted!!

Edited by Phantom01Pathfinder
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What exactly is a top-out? By design every strut tops-out when the suspension flexes enough, if I lift my truck by the frame I get a couple of inches of droop before the strut tops out.

 

If it is what I think it is i.e. the strut is extended to it's max under normal driving then I haven't had that issue with my OME springs (because I would think they're not as stiff as the AC- which is apparent from the lower height the OME springs provide vs the AC). I've read that with the AC springs you get a clunk/knock from the struts indicating that it's topping-out? As for the spacers- a mid mount spacer would not be my choice because of this reason, there's just not enough suspension travel for it on the Pathy's strut design.

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What exactly is a top-out? By design every strut tops-out when the suspension flexes enough, if I lift my truck by the frame I get a couple of inches of droop before the strut tops out.

 

On mine the noise is pretty much a "bang", the same noise as "bottoming" out although I've never had the bottoming out issue with the AC coils.

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You are on the right track "snow4me"

 

O.K. now you can eliminate the strut top to perch orientation. Remember that troubleshooting is the process of eliminating the obvious. You will get the camber issue figured out one way or another. Next will be the "top out" issue and then the CV angles, if you are having problems with these phenomenom.

This is a great thread that you started and your pathy looks awesome so stick with it.

 

With a 1" spacer on the top of the strut assembly and approximately a 2" longer spring installed you have effectively lengthen the strut assembly by 3'. Now XPLORx4, silverpathy and ferrariowner123 may chime in and dispute semantics but this has to be dealt with or brushed off'

 

These arguements are unbelievable!!

CV angles= install locking hubs.........................................still there and unlocking the hub dosen't change the angle of the CV (this one is my favorite)

Camber bolts= 2 per side and get it within specs..............fix it don't accept it (it's the 21st century, slot that top hole)

top out= it will subside over time.......................................why modify your suspension just to limit its performance

 

Good Luck

We're all pulling for you!!

 

 

Rocky, i never meant to dispute your thinking with the koni inserts, in-fact i owe you a thank you, because of your contributions, and after talking with exbrit, i was convinced out of doing the conventional AC lift. And made me put serious consideration into an SFD.

 

I have the Koni thread practically memorized in attempting to understand it and seeing ways to improve. Thats how many times i have read it.

 

Because, you were right, no one, that i have read, has mentioned the top out and camber issues up until that point.

 

I am just waiting for more people to try the system and to see how i would go about doing my lift, what i would do and what would make sense ( i have plenty of things to do to the pathfinder before i do a lift.)

 

We initially mentioned the hubs and camber bolts, because it has worked, for people like Rick13 and 01silverpathy, because they have had the systems in place and they reported successful lifts.

 

You have an excellent idea, i think it was your "mine is the only way to do it" attitude that put everyone off at first.

 

But, you are again right on this issue to, i think with the slot, and factory bolts at correct torque (maybe even a little more) this will solve the issue.

 

Snow, have you thought about getting a second opinion for another alignment shop, maybe they can fix the frame without having to go about this slotting process?

 

-Kyle

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Be advised, rant to begin in 3, 2, 1...

 

Just for the record (not arguing Rocky, cause I really like your ideas/experimentation), BUT I knew EXACTLY what I was doing with my front suspension when I decided on the AC 2" coil lift back in 2007.

  • I had read about top-out (which honestly mostly occurred in the 1st year of being lifted and actually hasn't occurred to me once in the last year)
  • The alignment was never a problem until the SFD (which only required another camber bolt on one side, the other was fine)
  • I'm still a hold-out with my original auto hubs (of which I've only replace one CV in 5+ years/60K+ miles of having it lifted, and that original equipment CV was 10+ years old with 4+ years of lift/trails/snow/salt on it!!!) and I still get close to the same mileage as Thunderbolt on long excursions/interstate trips to Moab.

In a nutshell, I wanted additional height, to fit bigger/more aggressive tires, in order to tackle harder trails (which I think may be a common theme for several of us on this forum). I never thought of the AC lift as "increasing performance" of the front suspension. Just figured this lift would give me a little boost and hold up better to additional weight of a front bumper/winch - which I'm STILL trying to figure out what to do and more importantly, where the money will come from to do what I want!!!

 

End rant.

 

Very sorry about adding to the :jacked: portions snow4me, but I feel better now. So thanks.

 

BTW your rig look awesome (an exact setup that I contemplated for 6 whole months before jumping at the SFD) and I can't wait to hear how it performs on trails! Seriously, something about an R50 on 33's that get's me a little verklempt.

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Well, I spent a few minutes putting the pathy back up on jack stands. I am screwed I think. With my (2) sets of cam bolts installed and set to the max of 4 degrees each side, the spindle is touching the strut body. This means that even if I slotted the struts, I couldn't get any more camber adjustment.

 

The way I see it is I have two choices... 1). I remove the NX4 spacer and hope that does enough to get it aligned... OR... 2). I do a 2" SFD on the front to bring the suspension back to a more stock appearing angle. I feel quite ill. :-(

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Nice work bro! I am almost ready to do the same exact lift with the same color Pathy, but mine is a 2002 with the body colored fender flares. I didn't opt for the 33s, but instead went with 32s.

 

My thought process was in line with what Rick said - I want the extra lift to fit larger tires and give a little more off road clearance. I was heavily considering the SFD given the known (and so often repeated by some) issues with the AC lift.

 

Here is how I broke it down:

 

1. Need new struts, rear dampers, and springs anyway. I cost out a stock for new stock swap with the WJ springs for the rear and the expense was pretty close to what I spent on the AC lift springs, KYB Excel-Gs, and Bilstein dampers. AC lift wins that round given that I would also have to buy the rest of the SFD.

 

2. Bigger tires = heavier tires/more rolling resistance = lower gas mileage. Manual locking hubs free up wasted energy which will help offset the decrease in MPG. Bonus, it also helps out that pesky CV angle thing with the AC lift. Since manual hubs were already on the list even with a SFD, I believe round 2 goes to the AC lift as well.

 

3. Strut top out - the number one issue that was pushing me towards the SFD. Round 3 definitely goes to the SFD.

 

4. Spring Rates - replacing the stock strut springs with new stock gives me the same spring rate (albeit, definitely a higher rate than the current springs) as stock . . . derp. That doesn't help any plans for heavy items up front in the future. The rear WJs would help the towing and DH bike transportation sag. You might as well get it stiff up front if you have it stiff in the rear . . . err, you know what I mean . . . Round 4 to the AC lift.

 

5. Ease of installation. Now don't misunderstand me, I realize the SFD is not that difficult if you are a modest or better home mechanic, and given the guides posted here, should be relatively straight forward. However, I have to change the rest of the suspension in addition to adding blocks, engine mounts, brake lines, panhard rod extension, steering shaft extension, etc. My Pathy is my DD, and my only way to get to work, so if I run into problems and don't get it back together before Monday I am pretty much SOL. I figure I can do the suspension on a Saturday, and if I hit a snag I'll still have Sunday to figure it out. Round 5 to the AC lift.

 

6. Camber after lift. Yes, positive camber can be a problem with the AC lift (as discussed above, especially with 1" spacers). Yes, it is better with the SFD. No, it does NOT render the AC lift with spacers impossible. Since every Pathy it seems is different, I am going to try the camber bolts first, and if I can't seem to get it close in the garage, I'll slot the holes and be done with it. Why don't I slot them first? I don't want to start cutting metal if I don't have to. The argument that the stock bolts are stronger is moot. I don't know what the material make-up is of the camber bolts, so trying to compare them based on diameter and how they 'look' is just silliness. I call this round a tie, other judges may disagree.

 

Seems like the AC lift is running away with things . . . well it really isn't. There are definite advantages to the SFD over the AC lift. For my intents and purposes the AC lift is a better fit. And in a couple years I will probably get the upgrade itch again and do the SFD in addition to the AC lift. At that point I expect to have a DD that gets better gas mileage, so having it down for a few days won't be such a big deal.

 

Now, rocky2, please do not take offense to what I have said. I appreciate that you are being innovative and solving the issues with the AC lift as noted above - we should all be as committed to it as you are. However, the attitude that the AC lift must be crap because there are things which must be modified to make it work is absurd. The AC lift, even given it's shortcomings is WAY more of a plug and play application for lifting than the SFD. Yes, there is increased wear on certain parts, but put it this way, you wouldn't expect to bolt a turbo to the VQ and get the same kind of life as NA. Even if you built it, the block is still aluminum and not meant for boost. Well, just sleeve the cylinders, etc., etc. etc. At some point it is just more advantageous to start with a beefier engine (SR20 or KA debate right?) The downfall of the Pathfinder suspension is that it is a unibody. It was never meant to be lifted (err thanks Nissan). We have some work arounds thanks to people like rocky2 who are committed to making the Pathfinder what it ought to have been in the first place, but the fact remains it is still a unibody and limited to some extent by that.

 

 

ANYWAY, I've said my piece. snow4me . . . the truck looks great! Figure out the camber problem and I am sure there are many days to play ahead!

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Well, I spent a few minutes putting the pathy back up on jack stands. I am screwed I think. With my (2) sets of cam bolts installed and set to the max of 4 degrees each side, the spindle is touching the strut body. This means that even if I slotted the struts, I couldn't get any more camber adjustment.

The way I see it is I have two choices... 1). I remove the NX4 spacer and hope that does enough to get it aligned... OR... 2). I do a 2" SFD on the front to bring the suspension back to a more stock appearing angle. I feel quite ill. :-(

Can you take some pictures? Kinda hard to tell what is going on, but that just doesn't sound right.

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