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*Updated: 02/06/2022 5:26PM PST

Timing belt disaster - Simple question... maybe.


englishjim
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The NO.1 contact point inside the cap is NOT lined directly up with the wire post on the outside. If you look you can see where the paths between the points and posts go.

Edited by Kingman
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since timing is BTDC, the rotor should be a little past the contact point in the disty (ie. when at TDC, the #1 has already fired and moved on a bit). Do you have a timing light to check the marks on the harmonic balancer while it's running? Do youhave any vacuum hoses off currently that might screw with the ECU?

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since timing is BTDC, the rotor should be a little past the contact point in the disty (ie. when at TDC, the #1 has already fired and moved on a bit). Do you have a timing light to check the marks on the harmonic balancer while it's running? Do youhave any vacuum hoses off currently that might screw with the ECU?

 

OK that was alot the picture I showed earlier in the thread with the red marks is where my disty. is I think its past a little.

So do I want it at TDC or BTDC what is BTDC??? I think I have a timing light but I really didnt wanna use it cause im not exactly sure how. I also am not exactly sure how to use the marks on the balancer, I haves the haynes manual and it says put it at 0 degrees so I figured I would put it on the last notch.

 

Im pretty sure I have a vacuum leak (gonna fix that next) but it ran fine before I took the belt off.

 

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The NO.1 contact point inside the cap is NOT lined directly up with the wire post on the outside. If you look you can see where the paths between the points and posts go.

 

Right it would make the #contact point where my red line is right?

 

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not sure what you mean by "twisted the right cam" but let's make sure everything is where it should be.

 

ok... I would definitely put the balancer on and tighten the bolt snugly. You can remove it again later.

 

disconnect the coil wire

throw a big-ass wrench on the crank bolt (holding the balancer in) and hand turn the engine, clockwise, until you get all 3 lines on your timing belt to lineup with the dimple marks on all 3 sprockets

count the teeth between the cam sprocket dimples (40)

count the teeth between the right (drivers side) cam sprocket dimple and the crank dimple (43)

remove the distributor cap and make sure the rotor is near the #1 firing point 9where the plug#1 connects. follow the indication on the cover to see which post is for #1. I believe it's just to the left of the actual plug-in point

Pull the #1 plug and stick a screwdriver or bamboo skewer in the hole

carefully rotate the crank shaft back and forth about 20 degrees each direction to see if you are at the top of the stroke

Look at your balancer and make sure that the timing marks are on the top. If you are at TDC, the leftmost mark (or next to leftmost) will be on top and the rest will be to the right (toward the 1 o'clock position)

 

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not sure what you mean by "twisted the right cam" but let's make sure everything is where it should be.

 

ok... I would definitely put the balancer on and tighten the bolt snugly. You can remove it again later.

 

disconnect the coil wire

throw a big-ass wrench on the crank bolt (holding the balancer in) and hand turn the engine, clockwise, until you get all 3 lines on your timing belt to lineup with the dimple marks on all 3 sprockets

count the teeth between the cam sprocket dimples (40)

count the teeth between the right (drivers side) cam sprocket dimple and the crank dimple (43)

remove the distributor cap and make sure the rotor is near the #1 firing point 9where the plug#1 connects. follow the indication on the cover to see which post is for #1. I believe it's just to the left of the actual plug-in point

Pull the #1 plug and stick a screwdriver or bamboo skewer in the hole

carefully rotate the crank shaft back and forth about 20 degrees each direction to see if you are at the top of the stroke

Look at your balancer and make sure that the timing marks are on the top. If you are at TDC, the leftmost mark (or next to leftmost) will be on top and the rest will be to the right (toward the 1 o'clock position)

 

 

Does my last video not seem on time?

 

I have pulled the plug I was kinda going by the rotor in the dusty.

I didn't want to strip it out it seems like a stubborn plug. Also do I want the #1 piston at the top of its stroke? I am now confused with this BTDC???

 

Also with the stick or screwdriver I'm just looking for its highest point and keep it there right?

 

Sorry for all the double checking I just want to get this right.

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I wouldn't say I twisted the sprocket as much as re-adjusted the belt but I noticed the was turned about a tooth counter-clockwise so I kind of moved it a little and replaced the belt. Tooth count stayed at 40 43 tho.

Edited by Chadius
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BTDC is Before Top Dead Center... it is when the plug actually fires in relationship to the position of the #1 piston. The plug should actually fire at the tail end of the compression stroke, just before the piston reaches it's maximum stroke... hence BEFORE TDC. This provides a hair more compression and full use of the detonation power in the cylinder. It is the BTDC adjustment of the timing that causes your rotor to be just beyond the #1 post in the distributor when the piston is at TDC (ie, it has already fired and moved 15 degrees of rotation on the crankshaft). This is not anything to worry about when assembling, just adjusting after it's together BUT you must be CLOSE or you won't be able to adjust the timing by rotating the distributor.

 

I was worried that you had previously installed the belt with all 3 lines aligning to the indents on your sprockets, then took it off, turned the sprocket, and put it back on, shifting one tooth in rotation. That would be bad since it would change your tooth count and the timing on one of the cams.

 

As far as the video... the second seemed better than the first but... again... my concern that you changed the relative positions between the 2 cams.

 

When you count teeth, you're counting from the marks on the cam sprockets, not the dimple on the rear cover, right? Here's a vid that shows the relative position when at TDC. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uH20d5AOWDU

Note, the spots where the indent on the cam sprockets are painted white. those are the marks you care about. Easier to see in this pic... http://z32.wikispaces.com/file/view/DSC05861.jpg

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Yes I was counting from marks on the sprocket and not the back cover, im pretty positive my teeth count is correct, after I line up the lines on the belt with the marks on the sprocket and turn the engine I can NEVER get the dimples to line up with the white lines on the belt again.

 

When I put the belt back on I made sure my teeth count was right again so that shouldnt be an issue.

 

Are you saying I can put it together how it is and fine tune it with the distributor once its together?

 

Also I feel like I need to put the harmonic balancer and pulleys in front of it together a certain way, there are two yellow marks on my pulleys but no corresponding marks on the harmonic balancer, do i need to put the balancer on the pulleys a certain way!?!?!?!

 

 

 

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the inner part and the pulleys should have been kept together and the crank pulley assembly taken off the crankshaft by removing only the big-ass bolt and pulling the entire thing off the keyed shaft.

 

http://www.nicoclub.com/FSM/Pathfinder/1995_Pathfinder/em.pdf see EM-12 for the assembly order of washers etc.

 

and yes, the timing adjustment is at the distributor. Underneath it, next to the shaft that goes into the block, there will be a bolt through a slot holding it in place. If you loosen the bolt, you should be able to rotate the distributor a bit to change the orientation of the plug posts to the rotor. Once your timing marks lineup to 15 BTDC (see previous post), you tighten the bolt again.

 

I hear you about the lines not lining up after cranking. I can assure you mathematically that they will eventually lineup again. As long as you are counting from the marks on the sprockets, the lines no longer matter. That's jut put there to help not be a tooth off when you first install it.

 

For the crank pulley, if you took the front part off (4 bolts I think) and the rear pulley is still attached to the guts of the thing (rubber part), you can probably just bolt the damned thing back together and not worry about it. I don't think there is any way to make sure it's exactly where it was before. To put the entire thing on the crankshaft, it's keyed so the balancer should be good with respect to the crankshaft itself 9which is why it's there, not the outermost pulleys)

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Yeah I just wanted to make sure they werent backwards or anything, here are the marks I was talking about.

 

IMG_01701_zpscac5ef32.jpg

 

IMG_01731_zpsb359fa04.jpg

Here are the marks, you guys dont think these line up with the Harmonic Bal. in any way?

 

There are 4-5 dots on the back of my hard figured they might correlate with that.

 

I see the timing marks on the pulley how would I go about timing the pulley up with the two cam sprockets?

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I would go yellow to yellow. Looks like that was some sort of mark or foreign crap that indicates some sort of alignment between the 2 pieces. As for timing.... it will only go onto the crankshaft one way due to the key.

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Yes but is it not possible to put it on backwards? I'm pretty sure I didn't but my Haynes manual doesn't really have a good exploded view of it. Bolts that connect the pulleys and balancer give you a good shove in the right direction on that one.

 

Im still not exactly sure how to time the disy.

Your saying I loosen the bolt under the disty. rotor and rotate the crank or the distributor rotor? and im looking to put the contact point right after the number 1 contact point and the tighten the bolt?

If im not mistaken the #1 piston should be on its way down the chamber not up it right?

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should not be possible to put it on backwards. Biggest pulleys toward the engine, smaller (with boltheads) to the outer.

 

once everything is together, including the coil wire to the distributer and the disty cap on...

 

hookup timing light (3 connections.... battery positive, vehicle ground, and wire to plug#1)

loosen bolt under distributor so you are able to rotate it slightly

start the engine

point timing light at pulley's timing marks and hold trigger (will strobe)

hand rotate the outer casing of the distributer by hand until your timing mark is lined up to the pointer on the outer cover. Should hear difference in how it runs

once in the right position, tighten bolt and recheck with timing light to make sure it didn't move when tightening.

 

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I am not exactly a wiz with a timing gun I was hoping I wouldn't have to use it.

 

I will do some research and hopefully get back to you guys with some descent info.

 

Also I don't think I have a timing mark on the outer cover of my dusty cap?(not exactly sure what you mean by that) I also don't have one to line up with my balancer marks. How do I go about this?

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Why did you even take that apart in the first place? There is no need to separate the pulley and the balancer...

Because I wasn't exactly sure how to get it off, figured that was the next step I was at a stand still at the point.

 

I'll try to keep them together from now on, thanks..

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When the engine is at TDC on the compression stroke (distributor pointing at the NO.1 contact), the crank keyway should be about 11 o'clock. From there, the furthest left timing mark on the pulley needs be pointing straight up at the timing pointer. The furthest left mark is 0*. If you need to rotate the crank just a hair go for it. Bolt the pulley on. When the engine is running set the timing to 15* BTDC. Spec is 12, yes, but the TBIs benefit from the advance.

 

Take something abrasive and clean that pulley up. You need to be able to clearly see the timing marks on the outer edge.

Edited by Kingman
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I am not exactly a wiz with a timing gun I was hoping I wouldn't have to use it.

 

I will do some research and hopefully get back to you guys with some descent info.

 

Also I don't think I have a timing mark on the outer cover of my dusty cap?(not exactly sure what you mean by that) I also don't have one to line up with my balancer marks. How do I go about this?

outer cover of the timing belt. sorry for the confusion

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That's where the pointer is? On the timing cover? Not sure if I remember one there I will have to check when I get to it.

 

And as long as my teeth count is right (40, 43) then I am ready to time with the light and pulley marks?

Edited by Chadius
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