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31s + Cragars = Death Wobble?


Nosser
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Hey everybody,

Continuing to make headway on my new Pathy but ran into a bit of a stumble this weekend. Yesterday I had a new set of wheels and tires mounted up and installed. The specs:

 

Tire: BFGoodrich All-Terrain TA/KO, 31 x 10.5 x 15

Wheel: Cragar V-5, 15x8, 3.75 in backspace

 

Immediately upon entering the freeway onramp I felt a very noticable wobble in the wheel - I was tempted to just turn around and have them re-balanced but due to my schedule I decided to bring it back later, (Discount Tire - lifetime re-balances,) however I've since driven the truck a couple more times and I don't believe it is actually a balance problem as it's very inconsistent - at the exact same speed sometimes it's VERY noticeable and sometimes non-existent. I should note here that with the stock wheels and tires (265s) there was no vibration whatsoever at any speed.

 

The tension rod bushings look a little dry, but solid. I'll probably throw on a set anyway as a maintenance item but not convinced at all that's the source of the problem. My biggest worry is actually that it's the wheels themselves as they are lug-centric, but I've run the same wheels on other cars and trucks with no vibration problems whatsover - are Pathys especially sensitive to this? Seems like plenty of folks run similar Cragar steelies so I figured they were fine.

 

Anything else that's a likely culprit?

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I suspect you have an issue in the suspension somewhere. I would start with the tension rod (also sometimes compression rod), but look elsewhere also. The tension rod is sneaky because you can't see the damage that is happening. It'll wear through the sleeve and the rod itself without you ever really noticing it based upon assembled visual inspection. There is thread about these somewhere around here.

 

You wheel tire combo should not be an issue. I'm running 33s and have some vibration but everything except the tension rod bushings are factory original (210k+miles) and the tires haven't been balanced since I bought them about 2 years ago.

Edited by andreus009
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I agree, the wheels have more offset than the factory wheels which puts more strain on the system and exacerbates any issues that could be there. I had a hard time keeping the idler arm tight on my old wd21 and that seemed to cause it to wobble/shake unless you were on the most perfect of roads.

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I'm no expert, but I'd also take a closer look at your steering system and ball joints. I'm running 31's on Cragar soft 8's with no issues (at least up until my transmission died). But I also replaced my steering and front suspension components with new last year.

 

+1 on the tension rods looking fine. I thought mine were fine until I took them apart to replace the bushings "just cuz", and realized I was only a few mm away from them snapping.

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I have not specifically checked the wheel bearings, but they're making no noise whatsoever. Tension rod bushes get here tomorrow so I'll be able to get it up in the air shortly.

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I'll be able to get it up in the air shortly.

That and a pry bar should tell you what is going on, but the tension rod bushings are a sure bet anyway. AFAIC they should be a regular 60,000 mile maintenence item.

 

B

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Let us not forget the old issue of lug centric wheels causing vibration. Unless the wheel is hub centric (which most after market wheels are not) the wheels could be on slightly off center, a likely scenario as this only happened after you fitted the wheels. Check out this thread & maybe refit the wheels............ http://www.nissanpathfinders.net/forum/topic/34156-hubcentric-spacers/

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Thanks for the link to the other thread - I was always hard core about hub centric wheels until I threw Cragars on a couple of domestics I've had over the years without issue. I went ahead and ordered a set of spacers - may not fix the problem but at least takes another variable out of the equation. For 12 bucks it's sure not going to hurt.

Edited by Nosser
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So got it in the air over the weekend and everything is tight as a drum - no play in any of the suspension links anywhere as far as I can tell.

 

Replacing the tension rod bushes all the same, on close inspection they do seem to have seen better days. Still trying to get the nuts at the back of the rods off - 24mm socket can't get down because of the threads, 24mm deep socket doesn't fit as the frame buttresses are in the way. Going to try to track down a 24mm closed end bf wrench at harbor freight today - local shops didn't have anything over 22. Can you tell I'm having fun?

 

Another question - anyone had any luck calming the shimmies w/ a steering dampener? Don't want to just throw parts at the problem but just thought about it and it seemed like a natural solution.

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A damper could help, but honestly that's probably just adressing a symptom of something else.

 

So the front end checks out in the air which is good, but do a quick check when it is on the ground too. Sometimes weight and full suspension droop can put a load on things making them seem tighter than they are at normal operating conditions.

At this point I would do that, take the tires back to Discount to have the balance checked, install the tension rod bushings, make sure it is properly aligned and see what you get.

 

B

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If you have the tires checked ( spun on balancer), try to see if you can watch when they do it, I always try to watch to see if there is any runout (correct word??), when they spin the tires. If the wheels look like they have movement I have them put on the rear. If the wheels are new and have movement return the wheels if possible. Samme goes for the tires if they are new, if the tires are out of round get them to take them back.

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If you can't find a 24mm, a 15/16" wrench is the same, and what I used.

 

If you take the tires back tell them you want them balanced to zero. Sometimes they need more weights and the tech just gets it "close enough"..

 

 

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Let us know how it turns out Nosser... I have had the same issue but the stock wheels did the same thing (always inconsistent).

 

Update: Went wheeling today, got back on the highway and the truck drove like a cadillac.. go figure.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Tonight will be moment of truth - strut bushings and rods were as toasted as most, though luckily frame mounts weren't too badly hogged out. Had to wait to get new rods so it's been up in the air for a few weeks, finally got it all back together with the centering rings on last night, but seems the door hadn't completely closed so batt was beyond dead. We'll see what we get once I get home.

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Amazing how bad those rods/bushings can be inside without showing it from the outside, especially in salt country! I'll state my conviction that these should nbe a regular maintenance item every 60k miles. Luckly, they aren't bad to deal with if you catch them in time. With a little luck this will make the difference for you. :aok:

 

B

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  • 8 years later...
On 11/14/2012 at 12:50 PM, Nosser said:

Tonight will be moment of truth - strut bushings and rods were as toasted as most, though luckily frame mounts weren't too badly hogged out. Had to wait to get new rods so it's been up in the air for a few weeks, finally got it all back together with the centering rings on last night, but seems the door hadn't completely closed so batt was beyond dead. We'll see what we get once I get home.

 

This fix your problem?

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6 minutes ago, TheGhost said:

 

This fix your problem?

 

He hasn't been online in 8 years, I doubt you'll get a response.

 

Whether it necessarily solved his exact problem or not, if your strut rod bushings are toast I'd solve that issue anyways.

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Oddly enough I had issues with my cragar wheels and shaking for years. Could never really resolve it until I put them on my Xterra and that proved the truck was not the issue. I recently bought new tires from a friend that started a tire shop. He told me to come back in a week, and when I did his new lug centric balancing adapter had arrived. We balanced the tires with that and holy crap I've never had such a smooth ride. Turns out you cannot balance the soft 8 wheels through the center hole, not sure why any other shop never picked up on this, but that 100% fixed the problem. I'm glad he picked up on it. I've only owned them for 10 years....

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