Jump to content

Due to a hardware failure on the hosts systems, all posts and messages created between May 26th and Jan 13th have been lost. Additionally, if you joined the NPORA Forums community during that time, you'll need to re-register. -NPORA Mod Team *Updated: 05/19/2022 12:15AM PST

Making it run like new!


5523Pathfinder
 Share

Recommended Posts

Not long ago, I eclipsed 200,000 miles on my Pathfinder. To some, its no big deal, others it is. I purchased Big Homie with about 82,000 miles on him several years back and he is my daily driver. I had changed the timing belt at 113,000 mile and knew it was time to do it again. I put in the new timing belt at 209,000 miles, and I was glad I did. There were a few stiches coming out of the belt where it is sewn together. Now I also got all new tune up parts including cap, rotor, plugs, wires, fuel filter and PCV valve. I had changed the plugs around 150,000 and wasnt to worried about them. When I pulled them, they looked to be in fairly good shape.

0012.jpg

 

Its tough to see, but the V in the plugs was almost gone. As far as im concerned, when the V is gone in the NGK's, they need to be replaced.

 

Next was my cap and rotor. Thought I had found the problem. Cap terminals were corroded and flakey. Rotor was burnt and probably misfiring...

 

0022.jpg

0032.jpg

0042.jpg

 

I test drove it shortly after, but still seem to hesitate a bit in 2nd and 3rd. I knew my Air Flow Meter was clean and the filter was ok. Two days later at work, I didnt have much to do. I thought to myself that I should try decarboning. Now I had done this before and always seems to help. VG's are well known for carbon buildup on the valves, intake runners and throttle bodies. After poking around to see what I could, I remembered the 3M Injector cleaner. There was a TSB to use this cleaner before replacing any fuel injectors. Surely I thought with 200k, my injector pattern couldnt be that good. So I hooked it up and let her run...

 

Injectorcleaning1.jpg

 

Now this isnt a overly difficult thing to do. You disble the fuel system(fuel pump fuse), hook up the can to the hoses and attach to the fuel inlet tube(from fuel filter). You pinch off the fuel return line as you dont want to just send it back to the tank. I did a little overkill and attached 3 hose pinch pliers to make sure. This is a setup that Nissan released years ago.

 

After the fuel injector flush was done, I did my BG Induction service. This apperatice is installed just in front of the throttle body to help clean it and the intake. The tip has a atomizer so the cleaner travels anywhere air does. Like I said, I have used this device 1000's of times and I love it. Here you can see a few pics of my intake before the cleaning...

 

003.jpg

004.jpg

Edited by 5523Pathfinder
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here is the system installed...

 

001.jpg

005.jpg

 

This is one of those chemicals that I dont like to breath. I hooked up exhaust system and let her run. This system runs with the fuel system back to normal. Two cans are ran through and one goes in the tank to help clean. I disconnect and check out the results....

 

002.jpg

 

Yeah, the picture is a bit foggy cause I literaly just disconnected the apperatice and took a pic. Now, here is where my camera died. I tried to take another pic to show how the runners were no longer the goldish/brownish color as before. I also took the time to wipe off any other carbon I could get to around the throttle plate and body. If you choose to ever clean your throttle body, use a sensor safe cleaner and use a rag to wipe out the carbon. DO NOT USE ANY KIND OF SCRUB/WIRE BRUSH. Our throttle bodies have a coating on them that needs to stay. Also, DO NOT MESS WITH ANY OF THE SCREWS ON THE BODY OR BUTTERFLY PLATE!!!. Doing so will cause the plate to shift and the throttle will be toast. I have seen this several times, just dont do it.

 

I buttoned everthing thing up and took him for a test drive. Man what a difference! The stumble/hesitaion is gone. It idles properly and accelerates smoothly. Feels likes its brand new again. I have power to pass in traffic again!! A few cold mornings have passed and I have not felt the stumble at all. So far, fuel mileage hasnt changed much, but I will be honest, I have been enjoying the power a bit much if you know what I am saying!

 

So, Im not sure if this will help anyone, but at least it gives you something to look at as a reference. If anyone has any questions, please ask away!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok, I brought him in and took a few more pictures. Here you can see how the throttle body is clean and down into the intake runners is nice and clean as well....

 

0043.jpg

0023.jpg

0033.jpg

 

Sorry they are not better pics. Kind of a crappy shop camera. Oh well.

Edited by 5523Pathfinder
Link to comment
Share on other sites

For anyone that doesn't have a BG intake system, you can always get the engine to opperating temp and pull a vacuum line, suck a half quart of dextron 3 trans fluid Into the intake. Then shut the engine off and let it soak for 30 minutes. When you start it up its gonna smoke like crazy. Just drive the fire out of it and voila! Carbon is gone :D I learned that trick at tech school. Just have to make sure you don't let the engine die while it's going into the intake. I always hold the throttle around 3,000 rpm. It may not be as perfect as the BG system, but snake oil is all the same right?! Jk. Good write up by the way. It's the little things that make it feel new again.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

bmcgawain,

 

Where did you go to 'tech' school? Why didn't you just fill the intake system up with acetylene and light her off...after you take out full coverage insurance out on the truck. Transmission fluid....

Edited by krmiller07
Link to comment
Share on other sites

bmcgawain,

 

Where did you go to 'tech' school? Why didn't you just fill the intake system up with acetylene and light her off...after you take out full coverage insurance out on the truck. Transmission fluid....

 

transmission fluid is filled with detergents.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Transmission fluid doesn't have a large amount of detergents - the average quart of engine oil has more in terms of calcium, magnesium, and phosphorous. See this virgin oil analysis of Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF:

 

Mobil1SyntheticATF_VOAdist_sm.jpg

 

Mediocre quantities of phosphorous and calcium, which are detergent additives. Boron is primarily an anti-wear additive. I'd say leave the ATF for the transmission. ATF is also very thin and will dilute the additive package of the oil and lower the viscosity of the oil - the latter is not necessarily a bad thing during the winter months.

 

The MSDS of 3M intake cleaner says that the throttle cleaner contains 1 to 5% of polyether amines, which was developed by Chevron and BMW to clean without leaving its own deposits behind which just end up attracting more residue from carbon and other detergents, which makes it a very effective cleaner. This chemical is used in Chevron Techron, Redline SI-1, and a few other fuel system cleaners, but I think the small amount of PEA in the throttle cleaner isn't enough to be overwhelmingly effective. However, in the OP's pictures, it seems to have cleaned the intake up quite well, probably due to the way it disperses/atomizes. The 3M fuel system cleaner MSDS says it contains 7 - 13% PEA.

Edited by Towncivilian
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

I test drove it shortly after, but still seem to hesitate a bit in 2nd and 3rd. I knew my Air Flow Meter was clean and the filter was ok. Two days later at work, I didnt have much to do. I thought to myself that I should try decarboning. Now I had done this before and always seems to help. VG's are well known for carbon buildup on the valves, intake runners and throttle bodies. After poking around to see what I could, I remembered the 3M Injector cleaner. There was a TSB to use this cleaner before replacing any fuel injectors. Surely I thought with 200k, my injector pattern couldnt be that good. So I hooked it up and let her run...

 

Injectorcleaning1.jpg

 

So, for the duration, the truck is running solely off of this cleaner stuff? It keeps the engine running while cleaning it? That's crazy. This my be stupid for asking..but what's the big deal if some of it leaks into the gas tank? It's all going to the same place and it's harmless, right?

 

Transmission fluid doesn't have a large amount of detergents - the average quart of engine oil has more in terms of calcium, magnesium, and phosphorous. See this virgin oil analysis of Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF:

 

Mobil1SyntheticATF_VOAdist_sm.jpg

 

Mediocre quantities of phosphorous and calcium, which are detergent additives. Boron is primarily an anti-wear additive. I'd say leave the ATF for the transmission. ATF is also very thin and will dilute the additive package of the oil and lower the viscosity of the oil - the latter is not necessarily a bad thing during the winter months.

 

The MSDS of 3M intake cleaner says that the throttle cleaner contains 1 to 5% of polyether amines, which was developed by Chevron and BMW to clean without leaving its own deposits behind which just end up attracting more residue from carbon and other detergents, which makes it a very effective cleaner. This chemical is used in Chevron Techron, Redline SI-1, and a few other fuel system cleaners, but I think the small amount of PEA in the throttle cleaner isn't enough to be overwhelmingly effective. However, in the OP's pictures, it seems to have cleaned the intake up quite well, probably due to the way it disperses/atomizes. The 3M fuel system cleaner MSDS says it contains 7 - 13% PEA.

LOL. Town, I love you and your oil knowledge. It's amazing how you bring all this stuff up.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Forgot to add a virgin oil analysis of SuperTech 5W-30 API SN, which is bottled by either Warren Performance Products, or Exxon-Mobil, depending on your region. WPP ST can be determined by looking at the bottom of the bottle - it'll say WNE or WPP. If it's XOM bottled, the characteristic shape of the bottle will give it away. I digress, anyway. Here's the VOA: http://www.pqiamerica.com/SupertechApril2010.htm

 

You can see that even this "generic, off-brand" engine oil has significantly more calcium and phosphorous than a quart of M1 ATF, and more antiwear components. The total base number of this oil is 7.6 vs. M1 ATF's 2.06. An oil's TBN refers to the amount of additive that neutralizes acids formed during the combustion process; more is generally better, but one must take into account the oil's TBN retention as well for determining how long you can run an oil (if you're into extended drains). TBN depletion is not linear, but anyway I'm really going off-topic here... if you want to learn more, read this article.

Edited by Towncivilian
Link to comment
Share on other sites

So, for the duration, the truck is running solely off of this cleaner stuff? It keeps the engine running while cleaning it? That's crazy. This my be stupid for asking..but what's the big deal if some of it leaks into the gas tank? It's all going to the same place and it's harmless, right?

The cleaner is supposed to clean your injectors only. If it was to go back into the tank, its just a waste. It would be diluted into the fuel and pretty much do nothing. You want the injectors to spray and clean as long as possible. Yes, it was running on that cleaner only.

 

Guys, as far as the transmission fluid or any other fluid getting sucked in, you wanna make sure its sensor safe. That old trick is for older cars without cats and o2 sensors. Though our rigs dont have a lot of stuff, you could still hurt something. Also, you want to use as little as possible at a time if you suck it through a vacuum line. I have done it with water and some other chemicals, you just dont want to hydrolock the engine. Which can happen with a suprisingly small amount of fluid.

 

I am not here to promote BG by any means. I have just used it for years and know it works. For the guys to may not work on thier rigs regularly, if they should see that a shop offers this service, spend the bucks and try it. Heck, go see if you can watch.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I thought you were just supposed to go and drive up a hill at redline. Burn all that crap out :)

Ahh yes, the old Italian tune up! I actually have to do that on some Infinitis from time to time.

 

Gotta feed your ride some speed once and a while...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Is it worth mentioning that nothing Italian runs?

Fiat? HA! Fix it again, Tony!

Lancia? Oh boy, I get goosebumps just thinking about Lancia's.

Lambos and Ferraris...no comment.

 

Do I even have to mention Alfa Romero's? Probably the least reliable cars ever.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4.5liter v12's. Enough said right there. Those cars are ment for wide open, high rpm driving. Not stop and go/ city driving. But hey, 128 fiats have hand operated chokes and idle controls in the cab, that makes it a tractor in my book.

 

But hey, Everything american made and asian imports are copied from those cars. OHC's, all-wheel drive, hell fiat tractors have Hemis.

 

But this is all off topic of this guys thread (sorry Derek?)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

bmcgawain,

 

Where did you go to 'tech' school? Why didn't you just fill the intake system up with acetylene and light her off...after you take out full coverage insurance out on the truck. Transmission fluid....

Lol, It didn't come from the course work. But I swear it works. Laugh all you want. It actually makes the carbon deposits soft. That's why you let it soak. The carbon will break up and burn off the valves. It won't work like the bg stuff if you want it to look shinny new. But if you want carbon build up off the valves and pistons... Did I mention it's cheap? :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Automatic transmission fluid is not designed to handle the conditions of the engine, i.e. blow-by gases, moisture, fuel dilution, large amounts of dirt, significant oxidation... transmissions don't get dirty (at least not nearly as much as an engine), so why would they need large amounts of detergents? What is in ATF that is not in engine oil that would soften the carbon deposits as you claim? ATF would probably shear quickly in an engine, too, but that may depend on your choice of ATF. I think that the idea of using ATF in an engine was thought up at a time when engine oils contained less detergency than the average quart of ATF, I'd think in the 70s or 80s.

 

But if you use ATF as a parts cleaner or something, I can see that working. But ATF in an engine? No thanks.

Edited by Towncivilian
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, back to topic. Which of the BG products did you use? I know they have one that's added to the gas through the tank and one that is used in a dispenser as shown in the pic. I have a good friend who's a BG rep and he swears by the stuff. I actually let him use my rig as a test rig, and used both products as recommended and with him doing the work. I saw how much junk came out of the tailpipe as it idled in his driveway. I the added the fuel treatment to the gas with about a 1/4 to 1/8 from empty. When I left his house after driving it for a about 6 mile total initially after the treatment. I drove about a mile up the road and it stalled out. I let it set for a few minutes and cranked it over, only to have it run no faster than idle and then die. Long story short, I had to have the fuel pump replaced which is a story in itself. But after going through 6 different 'new' fuel pumps, all of which were NOT Nissan made, but were AC Delco pumps. I finally found one that worked IN the truck under load, as it turned out it was a Bosch brand pump which is still working fine.

Now I don't know if was coincidence that the factory pump failed after the 'intake system' treatment and fuel additive or it was something in the chemicals that caused the failure. I do know my truck was laid up for nearly a week and it cost me a total of around $ 1600.00 in labor (pumps were still under warranty) to resolve the problem. I had heard other stories where the BG products work extremely well, and other stories where it started and created problems.

Any opinions out there? I'm half tempted to try this stuff again, because it makes sense to clean the injectors and intake, valves, piston tops and combustion chambers out after alot of miles and varying qualities in fuels.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I used two cans of the Air Intake System Cleaner part no. 206 in the apperatice. One can of 44K in the tank. Yeah, we were taught by the BG rep years ago not to add the 44K to the tank when fuel is low, unless the customer fills up the tank immeidiatly. It is supposed to mix and treat the fuel. I have heard of people trying to run the 44K on a low tank and having issues. It is a cleaner afterall.

 

Like I said originally, I have used the BG stuff several times before and results were fantasic. Though I do think the fuel injector flush is was got me over the top.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I used two cans of the Air Intake System Cleaner part no. 206 in the apparatus. One can of 44K in the tank. Yeah, we were taught by the BG rep years ago not to add the 44K to the tank when fuel is low, unless the customer fills up the tank immediately. It is supposed to mix and treat the fuel. I have heard of people trying to run the 44K on a low tank and having issues. It is a cleaner after all.

 

Like I said originally, I have used the BG stuff several times before and results were fantastic. Though I do think the fuel injector flush is was got me over the top.

 

So where can one buy one of these BG things? It seems like I could pay for one pretty quickly with all the old junk I play around with.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

Welcome to NPORA Forums

 

Please register to gain full access to the forum.

Make sure you read the Forum Guidelines and don't forget to post a new intro in the New People Start Here! section, to say hi too everyone.

 

-NPORA

×
×
  • Create New...