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88 Pathfinder modifications


Path88finder
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Let the modifications begin!

 

Before I get started on the modifications I am looking at what others opinions are in regard to handling and fuel economy once the mods I have in mind are done.

 

To start of the mods will be done to a stock 88 Pathfinder. I have purchased another Pathfinder (exactly the same) that is not registered or road worthy but has many modifications already done to it. My plan is to pull the bits and pieces off and stick them on the Pathfinder that I drive.

 

The main modifications include - 2 inch body lift

- 1 inch suspension lift

- Snorkel

- Extractors

- Brand new webber carby (not fitted)

- Near new mud tires

 

Here are my questions...

 

1. Will the body and suspension lift with the mud tires effect the handling of the car? Also, will this change fuel economy?

2. Is it worth putting on the extractors to help the engine get rid of the exhaust? Will this help improve fuel economy?

3. Will the new webber carby improve fuel economy and power?

4. Will the snorkel help the engine breath easier and improve fuel economy?

5. Will the heavy steel bull bar and rear bar weigh the car down and make a noticeable difference in power/acceleration loss?

 

These are questions that I have no idea what the answers are so any help would be appreciated before I spend the $$$ to get the bits swapped over. Also, keep in mind that I am after improved fuel economy, improved power and the same or improved handling.

 

Thanks in advance.

Edited by Path88finder
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Let the modifications begin!

 

Before I get started on the modifications I am looking at what others opinions are in regard to handling and fuel economy once the mods I have in mind are done.

 

To start of the mods will be done to a stock 88 Pathfinder. I have purchased another Pathfinder (exactly the same) that is not registered or road worthy but has many modifications already done to it. My plan is to pull the bits and pieces off and stick them on the Pathfinder that I drive.

 

The main modifications include - 2 inch body lift

- 1 inch suspension lift

- Snorkel

- Extractors

- Brand new webber carby (not fitted)

- Near new mud tires

 

Here are my questions...

 

1. Will the body and suspension lift with the mud tires effect the handling of the car? Also, will this change fuel economy?

2. Is it worth putting on the extractors to help the engine get rid of the exhaust? Will this help improve fuel economy?

3. Will the new webber carby improve fuel economy and power?

4. Will the snorkel help the engine breath easier and improve fuel economy?

5. Will the heavy steel bull bar and rear bar weigh the car down and make a noticeable difference in power/acceleration loss?

 

These are questions that I have no idea what the answers are so any help would be appreciated before I spend the $$$ to get the bits swapped over. Also, keep in mind that I am after improved fuel economy, improved power and the same or improved handling.

 

Thanks in advance.

Well, first of all, all of those modifications will lower your gas mileage. I don't know what an extractor is though...so I can't comment on that. Do you mean extracting the broken manifold stud bolts?

 

The body lift will give you less MPG, make it handle worse, and lower your payload. This is all while putting more stress on all of your other components.

The suspension lift will give you less MPG, make it handle worse, and lower your payload. This is all while....more stress.

The Snorkel will...won't do a whole lot. It is really useless unless you go in deep water like all the time. If anything, it would make the engine have to work harder to suck in air. It's kind of like a vacuum. If you have a 3ft hose on your vacuum cleaner, then everything is ok. If you have a 100ft hose, then your vacuum cleaner will struggle to move all that air.

 

A webber carb? I don't really know much about carbs (on cars at least), but I do know that there are carbs that let in more air, and there are carbs that don't. If you have a high flow carb, then you will get more power, but you will burn more gas while doing it.

 

Lastly, those mud tires will kill your MPG. Mud tires are horrible for the highway. They are expensive, so you will be wasting them on everyday driving. They will make you handle horribly on the street. They will be loud. They are big and blocky so you will have low gas mileage. AND if you're using them for what they are intended for (mudding), then your MPG will be Gallons per Mile.

 

This is all on top of an overweight, underpowered SUV. They are great, I love them, but the gas mileage is terrible. I'm sure you know, stock MPG is like 18 if you're good?

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I don't think putting any kind of extractor in your exhaust is gonna help anything. The exhaust is only going to flow what the system is designed for. Lots of gimmicks out there so do your research. As far as a webber goes, count on it taking more drinks at the petrol station. I installed one on my Toyota pickup and read about them for months. Their claims of its two barrel design offering more fuel in the primary to save gas by reserving the need or demand on the secondary. Totall line of bs. Also fuel pressure would be a serious issue for your rig. Not sure how many psi are in a stock pathfinder, but because it's fuel injected its gonna be somewhere in the 25-50 range. Webber only needs 3-6 psi to avoid problems. Basically everything you mentioned doing to the rig will improve your off road abilities, but kill your daily driving commuting aspects. Can't have both realistically. :cheetos:

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By extractors I mean the individual pipes that replace a standard exhaust manifold. I think sewebster has got the right idea.

 

The comments so far have summed up what I have already been thinking. Increased off road ability decreases on road ability and vice versa.

Because I spend most of my time on road and plan to go away on weekends I need to be able to set my Pathfinder up to match how I use it. Sort of a compromise between on road and off road ability. Any suggestions as to which mods to put on and leave off with this in mind?

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By extractors I mean the individual pipes that replace a standard exhaust manifold. I think sewebster has got the right idea.

 

The comments so far have summed up what I have already been thinking. Increased off road ability decreases on road ability and vice versa.

Because I spend most of my time on road and plan to go away on weekends I need to be able to set my Pathfinder up to match how I use it. Sort of a compromise between on road and off road ability. Any suggestions as to which mods to put on and leave off with this in mind?

Try using it stock. Then figure out if that works for you. If your not a hardcore trail junkie, then the stock setup might be more than you need.

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  • 1 month later...

The body lift will give you less MPG, make it handle worse, and lower your payload. This is all while putting more stress on all of your other components.

I'm guessing the payload is reduced because the blocks cant handle the weight? Correct me if im wrong but if that's the case wont stronger blocks i.e solid not hollow fix that problem?

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I'm guessing the payload is reduced because the blocks cant handle the weight? Correct me if im wrong but if that's the case wont stronger blocks i.e solid not hollow fix that problem?

There's a few reasons. Quite simply, the higher your mass is from the ground, the more gravity acts on it. It's the same thing with 2wd trucks. A 2wd truck will have a few hundred pounds more payload ability than the identical 4wd truck. That is not only of the extra ground clearance, but it's also because of the added complication of components.

 

If your mass is sitting higher above the ground, it contains more energy. When you drive or transport that mass, it exerts more energy than before on your axles, tires, wheels, brakes, transmission, engine, frame, everything basically. That extra energy leaves less percentage for payload.

 

I'm speaking purely in technicalities and in theory. This won't affect your every day driving, but you might not want to pull that 5000lb trailer after you do a 6"lift.

 

When you lift a vehicle, the rest of the components aren't naturally how they should be. This causes additional stress, which, in turn, lessens your payload unless you want to break something. In other words, the maximum limit is lowered.

 

I'm not an expert with lifts, but I don't think blocks are involved. Blocks are sometimes involved with lowering a vehicle, but that's a bit sketchy. With lifting, you replace your suspension components with longer components. Longer coils, longer shocks, longer springs. That type of thing. You might also add leaf springs for moderate lift (not on Pathfinders).

In contrast, adding a leaf to your leaf springs might actually increase the maximum payload but that's only because there's more resistance. That doesn't necessarily mean the other components can handle it.

 

P.S. I think the purpose of lifting is to increase suspension travel. If your suspension travel is very long, then blocks would fall out. When you lower your vehicle, you are limiting the suspension travel, which, on paper, makes blocks the perfect solution.

Edited by 1994SEV6
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By block i mean lifting blocks so they either replace or go ontop of your body mounts so really your body is slightly higher and your chassis, engine and and drive train stays the same level the only advantage from those is that your wheels are less likely to dig into your fender wells for the most part the suspension stays the same. I think you thought that i mean coil blocks/spacers but yeah what you said about gravity does kinda make sense but the real question is how much does it lower your payload?

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If your mass is sitting higher above the ground, it contains more energy. When you drive or transport that mass, it exerts more energy than before on your axles, tires, wheels, brakes, transmission, engine, frame, everything basically. That extra energy leaves less percentage for payload.

 

I'm speaking purely in technicalities and in theory. This won't affect your every day driving, but you might not want to pull that 5000lb trailer after you do a 6"lift.

 

I think you've very much misunderstood the theory. Pick up a brick, you've added energy. Drop it, and you release the energy. But the mass of the brick does not change. It is no more difficult to move in the air than it was on the ground, no heavier, no change in physical properties. Lift a truck six inches, and unless you drop it again, the potential energy you added doesn't matter. The weight load of the truck (parked) is exactly the same (except the added weight of the body spacers, which I suspect is pretty much jack).

 

The difficulty of course is when the truck is moving. It's not that it has more to carry, it's just that the center of gravity has changed. It's like running with a heavy backpack vs running with it on your head. It'll be a little top heavy, and thus less stable. You'll have more suspension travel (assuming you've done a suspension lift) and probably different spring rates, which will alter handling in their own way, as will disconnecting the sway bars for flex. None of this makes the truck more difficult to move; it just makes it more unwieldy, and generates a little more air resistance.

 

The additional stress on components comes from the angles at which the shafts and CVs are made to work. The sharper the angle, the more the joints have to work, the more they'll have to handle, and the easier they'll be to break. The steering is also a factor. At stock height, it works okay, but when lifted, the tie rods put enough vertical force on the idler arm to require a brace or dummy box (a gutted steering box that's much stronger than the stock idler). From what I've heard, the centerlink doesn't cope well either. You also need to upgrade the upper control arms if you're going over an inch or two, or you'll never get the alignment right.

 

So, the car's less stable, the driveline is under more stress, and the steering, unless you brace it like crazy, gets iffy. You COULD load just as much stuff into it, and pull just as much with it, but it would be kinda hard on it, and not terribly safe. The lift spacers would be fine, though, I imagine you'd have to get stepped on by Godzilla to take those out.

 

Also, I'm pretty sure blocks are for lowering leaf-sprung trucks. Like this.

 

I agree with bmcgawain. Take it out, beat it around, see what you think. If it's lacking for clearance, read up on suspension lifts, and go from there. If the tires are too small, get some spare rims with mudders, and swap them out with your street tires when you go wheeling. If the tires rub on the wheel wells, look into a body lift. If the bumpers aren't holding up well, or you plan to run into stuff, build tube or plate bumpers, and so on. There are a few good general mods for whatever you're doing, but most of what you're talking about will depend entirely on where you drive it. (And none of it will help your mileage any.)

 

Snorkels are a deep water thing. Depending on the design, though, they could offer a little 'ram air' effect, which could make the engine breathe a little easier. A few guys here have installed turbochargers, which improve power and (in theory at least) mileage.

 

And from what I've read of carbs, don't bother. It would be a fair amount of work to integrate, the ECU would be pretty confused, and IIRC someone on here said that if you roll it with a carb setup, it can spill fuel onto the exhaust manifolds.

 

Also, if you're after more power, consider a VG33 swap. It's explained better elsewhere, but basically you replace the stock 3.0L with a 3.3L from a later Pathy or Xterra within a certain range of years.

Edited by Slartibartfast
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+1 to above reply, you can do a lot with three things, proper off road tires, at least a LSD in back and selectable locker up front, and a winch. tire size isn't all that critical here local we do a stock tire jeep run, where we take our lifted jeeps and put the stock size tire back on and run the trails, now we also run hard core trails but if you stick to mild trails a rig with 31" tires lockers and a winch could easily pass, especially if your not concerned about body damage.

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The body lift will give you less MPG, make it handle worse, and lower your payload. This is all while putting more stress on all of your other components.

 

Take this with a grain of salt. The body lift will not decrease your payload at all. It will also not affect your gas mileage, I drove my 3" body lifted pathfinder to the other side of the continent and back and still averaged 23mpg like I did when it was stock.

 

I haul stuff all the time with mine, I have a 3" suspension lift now as well and if you think that you can still rocket around corners like it was stock, well you're an idiot. It still tows great, although with the 33 inch tires it will downshift a lot more.

 

If anything my payload has increased due to the higher spring rate of the lift coil springs.

Edited by adamzan
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Well, first of all, all of those modifications will lower your gas mileage. I don't know what an extractor is though...so I can't comment on that. Do you mean extracting the broken manifold stud bolts?

 

The body lift will give you less MPG, make it handle worse, and lower your payload. This is all while putting more stress on all of your other components.

The suspension lift will give you less MPG, make it handle worse, and lower your payload. This is all while....more stress.

The Snorkel will...won't do a whole lot. It is really useless unless you go in deep water like all the time. If anything, it would make the engine have to work harder to suck in air. It's kind of like a vacuum. If you have a 3ft hose on your vacuum cleaner, then everything is ok. If you have a 100ft hose, then your vacuum cleaner will struggle to move all that air.

 

A webber carb? I don't really know much about carbs (on cars at least), but I do know that there are carbs that let in more air, and there are carbs that don't. If you have a high flow carb, then you will get more power, but you will burn more gas while doing it.

 

Lastly, those mud tires will kill your MPG. Mud tires are horrible for the highway. They are expensive, so you will be wasting them on everyday driving. They will make you handle horribly on the street. They will be loud. They are big and blocky so you will have low gas mileage. AND if you're using them for what they are intended for (mudding), then your MPG will be Gallons per Mile.

 

This is all on top of an overweight, underpowered SUV. They are great, I love them, but the gas mileage is terrible. I'm sure you know, stock MPG is like 18 if you're good?

So much of this is wrong, I don't even know where to begin.

 

Body lift will do almost nothing to MPG, a negligible difference on handling, and do nothing to payload.

Suspension lift will do almost nothing to MPG, will affect handling (could be better, could be worse, depends on a lot of factors) and could INCREASE payload

A snorkel will not make it harder for your truck to take in air. If anything, it adds MPG and power as the truck gets cool, clean air. Not to mention, at speed, the snorkel head acts as a ram air.

 

Mud tires, yes, have a much higher rolling resistance than a normal street tire. The difference in MPG is effected by far more than the tread design of the tire. Typically when people go bigger they also go wider. There's more friction. Not to mention more weight, and, if they stick out past the body, the truck becomes far less aerodynamic.

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I think you've very much misunderstood the theory. Pick up a brick, you've added energy. Drop it, and you release the energy. But the mass of the brick does not change.

 

The additional stress on components comes from the angles at which the shafts and CVs are made to work. The sharper the angle, the more the joints have to work, the more they'll have to handle, and the easier they'll be to break.

 

So, the car's less stable, the driveline is under more stress, and the steering, unless you brace it like crazy, gets iffy.

 

How did I misunderstand the theory when you just restated what I said? You said it in different words, which I appreciate, but you didn't correct what I was "wrong" about.

 

Take this with a grain of salt.

Of course. I didn't mean to imply something like "if you lift it one inch then your MPGs will go from 20 to 10!!! or your payload will be cut in half"

 

If anything my payload has increased due to the higher spring rate of the lift coil springs.

I would love for you to explain that.

 

 

and could INCREASE payload

I would love for you to explain that.

 

A snorkel will not make it harder for your truck to take in air. If anything, it adds MPG and power as the truck gets cool, clean air. Not to mention, at speed, the snorkel head acts as a ram air.

 

o rly?

 

How about this: cup your hand. Put it in front of your mouth. Blow as hard as you can in front of your mouth. Put your other hand under your first hand. As you blow, feel the air that is blown down. Compared to the force of the air that your mouth blows, the air that is blown down is relatively nothing.

 

Ok. Now pretend you had a third hand and pretend to put your third hand under your first hand to redirect the SECONDARY air flow again in a different direction. Take your second hand and feel how much air is being pushed. Yeah. Pretty much none.

 

Now, let's make an analogy. If you hold a plastic bag out of the window of your car while going down the highway, the bag is going to fill with air. This is representative of the stock air flow captured behind the headlight.

Then, pretend that you taped the mouth of the bag around some PVC pipe and it bends 90 degrees up, then 90 degrees straight again. Try to fill that bag with air.

 

So, let me get this straight... I said that the direct air flow was better. You said that was wrong. So then you 'corrected' me and said that the indirect airflow was better?

Interesting.

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Increased Payload due to higher spring rate and load capacity on new springs. Quite simple. Ever heard of an add-a-leaf, or helper spring?

 

Why do you think that blowing through your hands equates to how a motor takes in air? A snorkel doesn't restrict air flow at the motor, unless the piping is too small. A properly executed snorkel will have the effects I mentioned.

 

Listen man, argue all you like, but until your responses are based in actual real world application, you may want to check what you have to say.

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Do you ever wonder why you see those early to mid 90's chevy trucks that all seem to have the ass end in the air? They have extra leaf springs so you can have more payload aka weight capacity. Do you even know what payload is?

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How did I misunderstand the theory when you just restated what I said? You said it in different words, which I appreciate, but you didn't correct what I was "wrong" about.

 

 

Of course. I didn't mean to imply something like "if you lift it one inch then your MPGs will go from 20 to 10!!! or your payload will be cut in half"

 

 

I would love for you to explain that.

 

 

I would love for you to explain that.

 

 

 

o rly?

 

How about this: cup your hand. Put it in front of your mouth. Blow as hard as you can in front of your mouth. Put your other hand under your first hand. As you blow, feel the air that is blown down. Compared to the force of the air that your mouth blows, the air that is blown down is relatively nothing.

 

Ok. Now pretend you had a third hand and pretend to put your third hand under your first hand to redirect the SECONDARY air flow again in a different direction. Take your second hand and feel how much air is being pushed. Yeah. Pretty much none.

 

Now, let's make an analogy. If you hold a plastic bag out of the window of your car while going down the highway, the bag is going to fill with air. This is representative of the stock air flow captured behind the headlight.

Then, pretend that you taped the mouth of the bag around some PVC pipe and it bends 90 degrees up, then 90 degrees straight again. Try to fill that bag with air.

 

So, let me get this straight... I said that the direct air flow was better. You said that was wrong. So then you 'corrected' me and said that the indirect airflow was better?

Interesting.

unfortunately (as usual) you forget this is a forum filled with people in the automotive field and not the words of some neighbors friends uncle who gives out lines of why he pays over sticker for a plain common pickup he claims is rare by having the most common engine in its production line or some forum where re-grounding a vehicle by tracing the stock grounds and leaving them as well due to lack of confidence it's done right is considered one of the top tech articles.

 

You only quoted part of Slartibartfast's post, try reading the whole thing and you won't need an explanation and actually see where you were corrected.

 

If you need simple phrases like Adamzan's higher spring rate post explained... you need to stop posting in tech and suspension related threads and research. It's pretty blunt (which doubles for quoting Simon needing an explination for what a simple observation would clear up)

 

Again... actually reading Simons description of a snorkels benefits (which you seem to blindly not understand)

 

 

No wonder you bad talk other forums... they must all call you out on not knowing what you spew out... Now please, as I'm tired of suggesting to you RESEARCH before posting (I feel like a broken record)

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Re: pretty much all of 94sev's comments.

 

I think all these guys are right right man. The ram air from snorkel needs a little more math than holding a bag out the window to debunk, but simon is right on that one too (insert gr.8 physics class here).

 

who else tried the blowing on the hand thing? bahaha.

Edited by frecklecolouredbrain
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:doh:

 

How did I misunderstand the theory when you just restated what I said? You said it in different words, which I appreciate, but you didn't correct what I was "wrong" about.

 

I'll try to spell it out more clearly. Here's what you said:

 

If your mass is sitting higher above the ground, it contains more energy. When you drive or transport that mass, it exerts more energy than before

 

The first part of this is true. You have added potential energy by lifting the truck. What you are missing, however, is how potential energy works.

 

Drive to the top of a steep driveway, and you're exerting force to fight gravity. You gain altitude, and thus potential energy. When you coast back down the hill, you trade potential energy for kinetic energy. Basically, you get that energy back. Potential energy does not add mass. This means the truck does not weigh more, or take more force to move.

 

I think the root of your misunderstanding is thinking that the energy is somehow stored. It's not. It's spent to change the physical or chemical states of matter. Lift the brick, you'd added potential energy, but only because you changed the distance it'll fall. A tree uses sunlight to combine carbon dioxide and dirt, producing cellulose and oxygen. Burn the wood, and you recombine the cellulose and the oxygen. The chemical bonds change and spit out energy. This is storage in an abstract sense, because you can put it in and take it out, but it's nothing like how you'd store gasoline in a tank. What you're storing is not matter. It's energy. It has no mass.

 

So, let's say the OP lifts his truck two inches all around. He's added a little potential energy. The truck's mass is unchanged. The only difference is that, if his springs magically disappeared, the truck would hit the ground a little harder than a truck at stock height.

 

On snorkels: your hands make lousy pipes. Try blowing through an actual tube. Additional tubing and turns will offer increased resistance to flow, but a ram-air type snorkel should provide more than enough force to counteract this. Keep in mind also that the snorkel is, in theory at least, sucking colder and thus denser air.

 

Payload: Fill a stock Pathy with a ton of heavy stuff, and it'll bottom out. A lifted car has more travel before bottoming out, so it's got more room to sag before bottoming out.

 

OP: Sorry about the thread jack. :jacked:

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  • 2 weeks later...

Get some rock sliders. If you're gonna wheel, they are the most important and most used accessory you could possibly purchase to extend the life of your vehicle and keep your doors from getting permanently shut lol.

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THREAD FAILED

 

my turn now

 

Let the modifications begin!

 

Before I get started on the modifications I am looking at what others opinions are in regard to handling and fuel economy once the mods I have in mind are done.

 

To start of the mods will be done to a stock 88 Pathfinder. I have purchased another Pathfinder (exactly the same) that is not registered or road worthy but has many modifications already done to it. My plan is to pull the bits and pieces off and stick them on the Pathfinder that I drive.

 

The main modifications include - 2 inch body lift

- 1 inch suspension lift

- Snorkel

- Extractors

- Brand new webber carby (not fitted)

- Near new mud tires

 

Here are my questions...

 

1. Will the body and suspension lift with the mud tires effect the handling of the car? Also, will this change fuel economy?

2. Is it worth putting on the extractors to help the engine get rid of the exhaust? Will this help improve fuel economy?

3. Will the new webber carby improve fuel economy and power?

4. Will the snorkel help the engine breath easier and improve fuel economy?

5. Will the heavy steel bull bar and rear bar weigh the car down and make a noticeable difference in power/acceleration loss?

 

These are questions that I have no idea what the answers are so any help would be appreciated before I spend the $$$ to get the bits swapped over. Also, keep in mind that I am after improved fuel economy, improved power and the same or improved handling.

 

Thanks in advance.

1. The body lift will not affect the handling but it will affect your center of gravity. The suspension lift will affect the handling because you change the geometry of the suspension. However, 1 inch should not be a big deal. You can probably do a 1 inch lift just by cranking the torsion bars.

2. Extractors aka headers will not improve fuel economy but they will increase high rpm performance. If you get more fuel economy with them, you are more than likely running the engine way too lean, which you will feel by the sluggishness and loss of low end power.

3. If you are using extractors then having a higher flow carburetor is recommended. More fuel taken in + more air ingested due to more exhaust leaving = more bang and more go!

4. A snorkel will improve engine breathing because it places the filter away from the hot engine. Make sure the piping is big enough to avoid any air restriction. It might improve power but won't do anything for fuel economy because colder air is denser so it requires more fuel for combustion.

5. It depends on how heavy the bar is. You can get away with up to 90 lbs of extra weight up front and the same in the back without feeling any difference.

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I agree with Tungsten,but other's also have good point. Take it out and use it, see how it work's and what the limitation's are for you . Then go from there you might find a set of mud tires and bumpers are all you need . It will save you money in the long run. Good luck.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Body lift will not effect anything except a higher center of gravity, easier to roll over(I haven't).

Suspension lift- Great for articulation. I towed a nother pathfinder 200+ miles on a dolly with no problem.

M/T's yeah they will kill you MPG.

Don't switch to carb, TBI is awesome. If you want more HP get a VG33.

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  • 1 month later...

I like a modest, properly engineered 2-3" susp lift and no body lift personally. But I totally see why people go for body lifts - immediately allows you to fit larger tires, and keeps the (relative) center of gravity down, ie the drivetrain (all the weight) stays low & factory susp geometry can be maintained. And it seems without proper front/rear custom bars, bodylifted trucks can look a little naff.

 

I say lift it 2.5" with Rough Country UCAs and taller coil springs, maybe some manual front hubs, 31" MTs and you can have a lot of fun and learn a lot of driving techniques over a lot of different terrain.

 

Any modification made to enhance off-road performance will (equally) compromise the trucks on-road habits - its the law of the land!

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