smoke Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 I have seen a few articles on this online over the last few months and I am trying to put together a build list to do this. From what I can see you are taking a VG 33 blosck and boring it over 1.6mm for the Q piston(93mm out of a Q45 sadan V-8) with a wrist pin of 22mm. Change out the rods to VG30ET( Im assuming pushrods right?) Other than finding the pistons and or haveing some machined, what else do I need to look for. All of the articles and sites I have been on are a year or older. So if there is any other sites out there with info on them I would greatly appriciate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK9849cy Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 (edited) Just supercharge the VG30. Nissan poked the 3.0l out to a 3.3l for the R50's to gain what? 20 horse! So what is another .1 going to get ya? They also cleaned up the ports in the heads with the 3.3... . However guys are getting an easy 350 horse by boosting a 3.0.... Edited October 28, 2011 by AK9849cy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precise1 Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 He has a point, but to answer your questions, Mr510 just finished building up a VG34 a few weeks ago and did a full technical write up. I'm sure all of your answers are there... In the Garage section if IIRC. No superchargers in California... B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tungsten Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 If you want to do boost then just boost the 3.3 straight up without any other mods maybe except for the 3.0 camshafts. Boring out to 3.4 with higher compression pistons is what you do for more NA power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK9849cy Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 (edited) The only thing I can think of that a 3.3l would help out supercharger wise is the bigger crank snoot would handle the pulley load better. Otherwise if boosting the measly 17HP the 3.3 gives ya is hardly worth the extra effort. A fella is going to have to swap out a few things (ECU,Injectors,etc) in order to push enough fuel anyway. Why add to the effort.... I have always been told the 3.3 pistons can't handle the boost as well either. So another thing to put in your list of research to be done.. Edited October 29, 2011 by AK9849cy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.510 Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 I don't think I would supercharge a VG30E. The crank snout is awfully small diameter and they are known to break off just forward of the timing gear on occasion for no apparent reason. The serpentine accessory belt models are well known for this problem but it happens on others as well. The VG33 crank snout is huge in comparison and the same size as that of the DE/DETTs. The VG33ER crank pulley is HUGE. The belt driving the S/C is way forward of the timing cover and that would put a whole lot of load on that skinny little crank snout... plus you'd have to machine a custom pulley. The VG33 pistons can take boost, that's not a problem. Lots of guys put a stock VG33E bottom end in their Z31 Turbos and have no issues with reliability. A lower compression ratio would net you the ability to run more boost for more power at the expense of less bottom end and lower fuel efficiency. The build thread for my VG34 is here: http://www.nissanpathfinders.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=31418 The VG34's higher compression ratio (10.3:1 in my case) is a bigger factor in how much power it makes than the increase in displacement. It has also increased the fuel mileage by almost 3mpg in mixed driving, but keep in mind I'm on 33s so the huge increase in torque is probably a bigger factor than it would be on a stock truck. I have not done a long enough highway trip yet to know what it gets on the freeway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK9849cy Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 (edited) I had a Ford engineer put my VG34 with vh45 pistons through his calculator... It was something like a 10.34 horse gain over a vg33e. So if a fella put cams, port/polish, headers, maybe even bigger injectors on a VG33e (Like a VG34 build would have) the gains would be be negotiable for the amount of work. I put a VG33 in my 87 HB and the torque was noticeable. For the 180 bucks that was spent on the engine (250 with the serp accessories) it was a very nice upgrade for the dollar. It would be neat to see what a VG34 gets on a dyno.. Mine is setting in the corner waiting for its owner to kill one of the other VG's.. The Z31 folks tend to have a problem with ring land failures on the VG33. The builds with success normally have custom pistons. Kinda thinking my VG34 may end up with them too.. these new turbos spool fairly fast and are the ticket here in Colorado. The superchargers are a set ratio where the turbo goes for broke. Some 8.5:1's and 12-14 lbs would probably work really well. Looking back.. A VG30et has been the most economical deal so far. Leave it stock with some bigger injectors/intercooler and a fella is at 350 horse. Edited November 2, 2011 by AK9849cy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mxracerjason Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 My vg30 had about 180k on it and alot of pulling a trialer around for motocross racing, that vg30 was waisted and needed a serious rebuild. But I wanted to do the vg33 upgrade. I picked up a 0 mile vg33 from Felton's all Nissan auto wrecking for $1700 in 2005. No one had done that swap yet but I figured it out. With the lack of time I had to work on it and putting my cash in to a S13/Skyline build, it took about four years. It has about 10k on it now and runs very well. It has stainless headers, 2 1/2 exhaust, adjustable cam gears, puller fans, MSD 6a, Stillen intake. Now I'm gathering all the parts to do the factory supercharger. I have almost everything, and only three more parts to buy. The lower crank shaft pully, the ac compressor clutch, and the supercharger it self. I'll be useing a Vi-pec computer and get it tuned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.510 Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 I had a Ford engineer put my VG34 with vh45 pistons through his calculator... It was something like a 10.34 horse gain over a vg33e. So if a fella put cams, port/polish, headers, maybe even bigger injectors on a VG33e (Like a VG34 build would have) the gains would be be negotiable for the amount of work. I put a VG33 in my 87 HB and the torque was noticeable. For the 180 bucks that was spent on the engine (250 with the serp accessories) it was a very nice upgrade for the dollar. It would be neat to see what a VG34 gets on a dyno.. Mine is setting in the corner waiting for its owner to kill one of the other VG's.. The Z31 folks tend to have a problem with ring land failures on the VG33. The builds with success normally have custom pistons. Kinda thinking my VG34 may end up with them too.. these new turbos spool fairly fast and are the ticket here in Colorado. The superchargers are a set ratio where the turbo goes for broke. Some 8.5:1's and 12-14 lbs would probably work really well. Looking back.. A VG30et has been the most economical deal so far. Leave it stock with some bigger injectors/intercooler and a fella is at 350 horse. That Ford engineer must have gotten his formula wrong... or it says something about Ford in general! With stock MPFI Pathy injection (mine is TBI) the exact motor I built makes 225hp at the flywheel on 87 octane. Every single piece is the same as one Sly built and ran on the dyno except I don't run a harmonic balancer so my rotating weight is about six pounds less... has no effect on HP but it does rev quicker. (It would show incorrectly as an increase in HP on a flywheel-type chassis dyno.) Also keep in mind that USDM VG33 cams are absolute crap, the worst cams ever put in any VG series engine. Late VG30 cams into a VG33 is probably good for 15hp or more. Somebody probably has dyno numbers on a stock VG33 with VG30 cams? I think it's VQ30 pistons that are 93mm bore with 22mm wrist pins and come out somewhere near 8:1 in a VG33/4 build. They would be good for a moderate boost turbo setup. You can have forged pistons made of course, but the last thing I want in a street motor that sees lots of short trips and lots of miles is forged pistons beating themselves to death when cold. I built my VG34 with high compression specifically to run a light breathing turbo at only 5-7psi but seeing boost below 2k rpm. If I wanted max hp I'd have put a VG30ET in it, but that would be almost useless on the trail and the gas mileage would suck because of the low compression ratio. Now I'm gathering all the parts to do the factory supercharger. I have almost everything, and only three more parts to buy. The lower crank shaft pully, the ac compressor clutch, and the supercharger it self. I'll be useing a Vi-pec computer and get it tuned. I have the AC compressor from my VG33ER, I'll make you a good deal on it! I sold the S/C on eBay but still have some of the bracketry and such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK9849cy Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 (edited) Different clearances definitely come into play when going with forged pistons. I tend to be the kind that warms up the car before driving anyway. Guess I got into the habit with the diesel tow rig (remote start is a wonderful thing). MR510 your build is sweet! I went through mine a couple years ago.. then got side tracked when something else came along. The pistons were clayed and took it back apart to smooth out the valve reliefs a bit and put back together. I have another set of heads that need to get cleaned up/ported.. there is a box of Ferrea valves, new schneider springs, new Nissan lifters, cam pulleys, schneider regrinds, etc setting there for later tinkering. I do like seeing 225 horse from yours! It makes mine more likely to happen down the road. Thanks! Did you ever happen to weigh that VH45? I hear rumors that it is lighter than our cast iron VG's? I wheel with a Toyota group that runs turbo engines with lower compression ratios. I think with our stock t-case ratios it would totally stink. However if a guy is honestly going to make a habit of wheeling on harder trails lower transfer case ratios become a priority in any case. Over the last 5 years my rig has had the 3.92's from Calmini. It is amazing how it changes the capabilities of a vehicle. The only time they are a detriment is in deep mud.. nice to have a little wheel speed. Thus a tcase doubler (like the one Northwest Fab make for our rigs) is nice. It gives a rig multiple ratios for whatever the trail dishes out. On that note... most of these rigs are daily drivers on a budget. There are a few of us that could afford something newer but have a thing for the WD21 style. However, I would imagine bang for the buck is king. It is really hard to beat dropping in a low mileage VG33 with the serp accessories. My hardbody when running 37 inch radials gets 18ish. It is however lightened up quite a bit and regeared to 5.38's. But needless to say it surprised me. My vg30 had about 180k on it and alot of pulling a trailer around for motocross racing, that vg30 was wasted and needed a serious rebuild. But I wanted to do the vg33 upgrade. I picked up a 0 mile vg33 from Felton's all Nissan auto wrecking for $1700 in 2005. No one had done that swap yet but I figured it out. With the lack of time I had to work on it and putting my cash in to a S13/Skyline build, it took about four years. It has about 10k on it now and runs very well. It has stainless headers, 2 1/2 exhaust, adjustable cam gears, puller fans, MSD 6a, Stillen intake. Now I'm gathering all the parts to do the factory supercharger. I have almost everything, and only three more parts to buy. The lower crank shaft pully, the ac compressor clutch, and the supercharger it self. I'll be using a Vi-pec computer and get it tuned. There are many people running the factory Nissan supercharger getting 8 miles per gallon. Not sure what the problem is.. however they tend to blame it on a bad knock sensor putting it into a de-rated mode. Some put a resister in place of the knock sensor to try to troubleshoot it with mixed results. One of my very close friends just bagged his supercharged V6 for something else. He chased this very problem for 2-3 years. I have seen a few articles on this online over the last few months and I am trying to put together a build list to do this. From what I can see you are taking a VG 33 blosck and boring it over 1.6mm for the Q piston(93mm out of a Q45 sadan V-8) with a wrist pin of 22mm. Change out the rods to VG30ET( Im assuming pushrods right?) Other than finding the pistons and or haveing some machined, what else do I need to look for. All of the articles and sites I have been on are a year or older. So if there is any other sites out there with info on them I would greatly appriciate it. For the original post... what are your plans for this build? Wheeler, tow rig, more zip??? I used VG30dett rods.. got new bushings from. HERE Edited November 3, 2011 by AK9849cy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
180sx Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 A way to do this without the VH pistons and VG30DE rods would be to get a rebuild kit from RPM Machine: http://www.rpmmachine.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=322 They can sell oversize pistons...so it eliminates the valve relief process. just a thought. Jose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.510 Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 Different clearances definitely come into play when going with forged pistons. I tend to be the kind that warms up the car before driving anyway. Guess I got into the habit with the diesel tow rig (remote start is a wonderful thing). MR510 your build is sweet! It makes mine more likely to happen down the road. Thanks! Did you ever happen to weigh that VH45? I hear rumors that it is lighter than our cast iron VG's? Over the last 5 years my rig has had the 3.92's from Calmini. It is amazing how it changes the capabilities of a vehicle. I too have remote start and tend to let my truck warm up a few minutes, especially with the new motor! Thank you. It was a quick, fun project. Had I planned to do a build thread I would have taken more pics as there are some big holes in the assembly. I mostly wanted to document the things that didn't just drop together. Start to finish spanned about four weeks I guess. Had planned on just dropping the VG33ER longblock in but that didn't work out so well! I did not weigh the VH45DE but I can tell you from muscling it around that it weighs at least what a VG30DE does, probably more. There is a common misconception that engines with aluminum blocks are lighter than iron ones. In many cases this is not true. A good example of this is that a VG30E is lighter than an SR20DET. Lower T-case gears or a doubler would be nice for sure. I also have Unimog 404s so I know the advantages of mega low gearing first-hand. I run a HD Xterra automatic in my Pathy so the gearing isn't as much of an issue as it would be with a manual. I can't imagine trying to go the places I do with a 5 speed, stock gears, and 33s... My bodywork would be a whole lot more smashed up, that's for sure! If I can find the right deal on them I will switch to 4.9 gears at some point. A way to do this without the VH pistons and VG30DE rods would be to get a rebuild kit from RPM Machine: http://www.rpmmachine.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=322 They can sell oversize pistons...so it eliminates the valve relief process. just a thought. Jose They only go up to 92.5mm bore from that supplier... but remember that the higher compression ratio when using Q pistons is the bigger advantage, not the 3.2% increase in displacement. Also worthy of consideration is that complete 'kit' costs less than a set of Infiniti piston rings. That says something about the likely quality of the parts. VGs live the longest of just about any production gasoline engine. This is largely due to the high quality of parts and machine work and very tight clearances and tolerances from the factory. At least 75% (probably 90%) of automotive machine shops cannot even hold the VGs factory piston-to-bore tolerance of 0.0008-0.0012. Mine is nuts on at o.oo1 (one thousandth of an inch.) These are not easy engines to build/rebuild for longevity. They are simple but the tight clearances make everything super critical. These aren't small block Chevys, there isn't a single part in them that can be measured accurately enough with digital calipers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mxracerjason Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 I've heard that the LS2 weighs the same as the KA24 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesRich Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 VGs live the longest of just about any production gasoline engine. This is largely due to the high quality of parts and machine work and very tight clearances and tolerances from the factory. At least 75% (probably 90%) of automotive machine shops cannot even hold the VGs factory piston-to-bore tolerance of 0.0008-0.0012. Mine is nuts on at o.oo1 (one thousandth of an inch.) These are not easy engines to build/rebuild for longevity. They are simple but the tight clearances make everything super critical. These aren't small block Chevys, there isn't a single part in them that can be measured accurately enough with digital calipers. Damn thats a tight piston! I never looked it up but didn't think it would have been that tight. James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tungsten Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 (edited) Yes, the engines are built to the precision of a wrist watch. Extra care should be taken when doing the bore out. Edited November 7, 2011 by Tungsten Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.510 Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Damn thats a tight piston! I never looked it up but didn't think it would have been that tight. James That's what the guy who bored my block thought too! I compared the VH45 and VG33 FSMs to be sure that spec would cross-over between the two. The VH is an aluminum block and I didn't know if that would make a difference, or if the pistons might be of different material. The specs on the two were very close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK9849cy Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 (edited) The machinist I use will not punch out the block without each individual piston for this same exact reason. The pistons then come home numbered with it's hole made to size. Edited November 9, 2011 by AK9849cy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smoke Posted November 10, 2011 Author Share Posted November 10, 2011 For the original post... what are your plans for this build? Wheeler, tow rig, more zip??? I used VG30dett rods.. got new bushings from. HERE Im looking for more all around power to help pull my 12 foot trailer better and possiblly a lil better gas milage. I kno there will be more zip to the truck. Maybe even add a super charger to it in the future after building it. Still lots of research to do... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now