01silvapathy Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 i'm sorry, but what exactly did you guys think was going to happen by sending a few letters of interest for an exhaust for our trucks? just because they get about 50 or so letters of interest to make an exhaust, they're going to make a bunch? i think many of you are dismissing the amount of money it takes for a company to make and research such a product without any proven or guaranteed market out there for it. sure, $15k is quite a bit of money, but that's also a lot of money for Borla as well, especially during the current economic situation that we're all in. sure, they're a multi-million dollar or more company, but what business is out there to simply toss around money for no rhyme or reason other than to make a few truck owners happy whether they buy an exhaust system or not? But why would it take a major manufacturer like borla 15k to come up with an exhaust when any mom and pop shop can make one in a day for 300 bucks. Im sorry but seriously how hard can it be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick13 Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 i'm sorry, but what exactly did you guys think was going to happen by sending a few letters of interest for an exhaust for our trucks? just because they get about 50 or so letters of interest to make an exhaust, they're going to make a bunch? i think many of you are dismissing the amount of money it takes for a company to make and research such a product without any proven or guaranteed market out there for it. sure, $15k is quite a bit of money, but that's also a lot of money for Borla as well, especially during the current economic situation that we're all in. sure, they're a multi-million dollar or more company, but what business is out there to simply toss around money for no rhyme or reason other than to make a few truck owners happy whether they buy an exhaust system or not? I didn't expect much at all from our inquiries, I just thought it was fun to think about and see what kind of response we might get. On the other hand I did expect them to put down the crack pipe before replying to a letter of interest about their products. Seriously, for $1500 I could have had a completely custom exhaust system and that was specifically tuned to my vehicle, made by racing experts in a weeks time. Knowing the guy building it, I'm quite sure that it had the possibility of being completely reproducible (lowering the cost for subsequent clients). My point being that if times are so hard and the market just isn't there, maybe they should be looking for a different market share for their products... I actually think that smaller shops are the way to go for something like this, Borla has a name to keep up and I'm sure their R&D is bit more involved than the shop I could have taken my rig to... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom01Pathfinder Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 (edited) Im sorry but seriously how hard can it be? I agree! They are just looking to make a quick buck i pretty sure. Edited March 29, 2011 by Phantom01Pathfinder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finder98 Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 (edited) I know this is a bit late but Baaaaaaaaaahahhahahahahhahaha $ 15,000.00 Baaaaaaahahahahahhaha. O my some peoples children. Edited March 29, 2011 by Finder98 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esy Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 for those asking how hard it can be, why aren't you guys running your own exhaust company? not trying to be brass, but that's a bit narrow-minded, don't you think? again, $15k is a lot of money, but you're asking a company to put R&D into an exhaust that is not a proven market. what if some guys took the plunge on our trucks. they made, say, 100 cat-back exhaust systems (and knowing Borla, they're pretty pricey). and going by the number of members in this thread that are "interested", maybe 10 out of the 20 or so in this thread bought one. but, how many are even willing to shell out money for this exhaust immediately? i really, really doubt many of you would be able to. so, 10 exhausts sold in how many months' time? that's a pretty big loss on their part, especially seeing as how there was so much "interest", but nothing guaranteed in sales. think of that $15k as a "down payment" on their exhausts if people back out, which people will definitely do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howie Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 Guys, I think the best way to do this, instead of arguing the pros, cons and ethics of Borla, would be to have someone go to a shop, fab one up, and then post pictures and dimensions here. Anyone else who wants one can then take those pictures, to go their own local custom shop and get the same thing made. Everyone who wants one, gets one, and nobody has to shell out $15,000. End of story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahardb0dy Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 it's probably not hard for them at all to make a system, they have all the equipment, but to make a system it has to make a performance difference for the vehicle it is going on why else would they bother? If it doesn't make a difference why would anyone buy it?? Plus anything in CA has to be CARB exempt which I'm sure costs some money, not to mention the time, material, employee pay to make the product. Yes $15K sounds like a lot to us but overall it probably isn't taking a new product from design to prototype to testing to certification than production. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tungsten Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 it's probably not hard for them at all to make a system, they have all the equipment, but to make a system it has to make a performance difference for the vehicle it is going on why else would they bother? If it doesn't make a difference why would anyone buy it?? Plus anything in CA has to be CARB exempt which I'm sure costs some money, not to mention the time, material, employee pay to make the product. Yes $15K sounds like a lot to us but overall it probably isn't taking a new product from design to prototype to testing to certification than production. Also, note that they said $15,000 is only for the FIRST unit. Mass produced units, I'm sure, if they were ever made, would be sold for around $500 a unit. Borla does actual research on pipe diameter and pipe length and pipe bends and all that fun stuff. It's not JUST a pipe, it's a performance pipe! You can put a system together for like $300 but how would you know which specs are the best for the vehicle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timmons Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 hahahahahaha, It was a polite way to say "NO" we don't want to make one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesRich Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 If y'all are interested in a company making a system try JBA. JBA The JBA cat back for the Titan out performed borla and cost me $365 on a sale, and it is made of stainless. James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tekazgtr1984 Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 But why would it take a major manufacturer like borla 15k to come up with an exhaust when any mom and pop shop can make one in a day for 300 bucks. Im sorry but seriously how hard can it be? +1. $15K seems a bit high IMO. Of course, R&D isn't cheap. But even so, it shouldn't require that much time or effort to design something for the R50. It's not a race car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tungsten Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 +1. $15K seems a bit high IMO. Of course, R&D isn't cheap. But even so, it shouldn't require that much time or effort to design something for the R50. It's not a race car. You are talking about BORLA here, they have a reputation to hold up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tekazgtr1984 Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 You are talking about BORLA here, they have a reputation to hold up. No different than dropping $3-400 at a local muffler shop on a custom set-up; reputation's on the line just the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRNMACHINE Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 $15k... That is just plain Sad... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shift220 Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 It's pretty simple really.. they want to take the risk of the initial investment out of the equation. It also means they don't have any interest in making a kit for the R50. It's to bad since they would be the only company with a system available and they have a huge distribution network that would reach 1000x the people on this forum. While 15k does seem high, its not unreasonable. That's an extra $15 per kit if they sold 1000, $30 if they sold 500, $60 if they sold 250, $100 if they only sold 150. Really not much if the kit is $600+ to begin with. Oh well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cardana24 Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 try these guys: Josh Mandrel Exhaust Systems info@mandrelexhaustsystems.com www.mandrelexhaustsystems.com They were willing to make an exhaust for a third generation maxima (89-94) with no crazy set up cost like you are talking about with Borla. I did not get one of these ^^ but a few guys on my fourm did and it sounds like they got a really good deal. I think the tubing kit was under $150, and it mandrel bent. Here is the full thread if you are interested in reading it. http://forums.maxima.org/3rd-generation-maxima-1989-1994/621607-whos-interested-3rd-gen-cattman-2-5-catback.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02silverpathy Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 The following is a rant , effectivly my $.02 for a multi million dollar company: This is the reason that American business SuCkS! We get beat religiously by other countries out there trying to be constructive not combative. These guys suck.....seriously dude you got the balls to send back a request for 15g's from an American that HAD the potential to buy your spendy garb??? I got 2 words to kick your a** with in any exhaust conversation.... 1)Flowmaster 2)Magnaflow Any replies on that Mr Borla?? Your a joke, just sit in the "Snapple" position and hope for the best....do you remember their ad campaign? We like being 3rd (Behind coke and pepsi). I would too since you will never make any strive to be past 3rd place....good luck my friend...Just one more thing, did you laugh at the Hyundai Excel when they hit American soil? So did the American car companies, good luck keeping up with them now. Go make some cool mufflers for the 300M ...stay away from the Hyundai Genisis---BMW can't run fast enough--- B-M-W has expressed concerns about their power, luxury, and quality growing faster than the oversized engines and curb weight of their M3's; let alone keeping up with their M5's. Constructive + Creative = $$$ Combative + Greedy = No growth Dude its as simple as a couple sizes of mandrel bent pipe and your best slling muffler stuck on the end...the install is the same complication level as any 88+ Silverado. So make a whopping investment of a set of each of the following: Dual 2" mandrel bent aluminized-->2 into 1 muffler 2.5" mandrel out Dual 2.25" mandrel bent aluminized-->2 into 1 muffler 2.75" mandrel out Dual 2.5" mandrel bent aluminized-->2 into 1 muffler 3.0" mandrel out Whew that was work! Now dyno test these units on the 3.3 (96-99.5)and the 3.5 99.5+ - 04) I'll help just a bit more....the 2.5 into the 3...will kill the torq on the 3.5 scratch that off the dyno schedule...loser! :end rant ps: in no way was this an attempt to belittle anyone driving a 300m M3 M5 or any other BMW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skulptr Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 they wanted 15k for a system?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esy Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 No, 15k to cover their overhead to do R&D, test fits, dyno tests, etc which would take care of their finances in case people don't buy their exhausts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skulptr Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 yeah um my flowmaster exhaust cost me about 160 bucks, including my muffler, borla can shove it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esy Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 That's the same thing borla is saying to pathy owners who are asking for a tuned-specific performance exhaust for next to nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahardb0dy Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 we should contact them again and inquire on a exhaust kit for a more popular newer vehicle and see if they come back with the $15K response than we will know if their first reply was just blowing us off!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
180sx Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 Kinda late. but my thoughts. Am I stunned at the $15K price tag to DEVELOP the system? Yes. At first, it sounds lucacris to ask for that much. But then you have to think about everything. -CARB certification, EPA certification, DOT approval. -Costs to dyno the product to find the right size pipe for a gain in performance. (this is what they sell) -Costs for the pipes and mufflers used. -Costs to set up the machinery to mass produce these kits. -Payroll costs for the roughly 15 people who will be working on it. -Costs for maintanance after all the dyno pulls on their equipment. These just add up. And them asking for it is not unreasonable. Has anybody asked them for this product before? Probably not. How do they know there will be a market for them? If not, did they just spend the money to develop a kit that won't be succsefull in anyway? I just don't see the problem with this request. It's mucho high, but that's the cost of creating new products from a large business stand point. Now, you could go and make your own exhaust for, say, $300. Go pay $100 or more for a dyno session. Realize your pipe is the wrong size because you just lost all your bottom end to gain top. Go pay another $300 with a different size pipe. Then another $100+ for more dyno sessions. Then again realize your top end falls off earlier then before. And your muffler is way too loud. Rinse and repeat. This could easily turn into just $2000 for your exhaust alone. So, go do it, tell us what works, so we can pay only the $300 to have it done. Thanks! Jose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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